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  1. #101
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    Day 3

    Shade seems to be ok still. No change overnight and still eating and drinking well. No fevers at all.

    The discharge was green on saturday and thick. It is now clear and watery and there is less of it. Here is hoping that these are all the good signs they appear to be.

    I won't argue the pro/cons of spaying. It is a personal choice, based on personal experience.



  2. #102
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    Day 3

    Shade seems to be ok. No change overnight, still eating and drinking well. No fevers at all.

    The discharge was green on saturday and thick. It is now clear and watery and there is less of it. Here is hoping that these are all the good signs they appear to be.

    I won't argue the pro/cons of spaying. It is a personal choice, based on personal experience.



  3. #103
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    Thank you for the update, sounds like she is doing fine on the antibiotic.

    As for spaying or not, it is good to question all we do, time and again.

    For now, it still seems that spaying does come ahead over not doing so, for what we know, for most dogs.
    Always best to make those decisions with the individual dog in mind and it be the vet and owner decision.

    Thank you for letting everyone have an interesting discussion and hope all ends well for your dog.
    I do think that $3000 for a spay, even under difficult conditions, is much more than it would be here.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #104
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    Mar. 11, 2007
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    cnigh I hope she continues to improve and do well. Thanks also, as Bluey said, for letting us have the side conversation and handling it well.



  5. #105
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    Well, I talked to my SIL`s vet and Shade will be going in tomorrow and most likely have surgery on Wednesday.

    She has continued to do well. Lots more discharge which is a good sign. I will be relieved to get her taken care of. My nerves are shot.

    It amazes me that the Wolfhound has become so fragile as a breed. I would love to have one. But I really love my mutts. Most have been healthy happy dogs that died of old age.


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  6. #106
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    Jul. 26, 2001
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    My freinds that breed them have only had 3 litters, and while they kept one from each litter the others went to pet homes so they are not sure what ever became of them. They have had owned 8 in total, none of them had osteosarcomas. Their oldest is 13 right now and he was one of their breeding males, which I think is quite incredible since average age is 7?? Very small population though, I though they had more dogs.

    To the OP, glad your girl is doing well



  7. #107
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    Hey cnigh,

    Sounds like Shade is doing fine, best of luck with her surgery!! And thank you for being so gracious and non-reactive and allowing our discussion, I'm afraid I must apologize for hijacking your thread, though I was attempting to present info that was supportive of your past decision. You obviously care a great deal about Shade. I know it can be difficult for people to incorporate what might be novel ideas to them, despite objective research results.

    Yes, IWs are not for the faint of heart! A well-done study in the early 70's found that the mean age of death is 6.5 years for males, only a month or so longer for bitches, and ongoing studies indicate no improvement in lifespan. I have had quite a number live to be ten years old, but so far none of mine have reached 11, and have unfortunately lost some young hounds and those in their prime, mostly from bone cancer. Heart disease and bloat are also major mortality factors for this breed.

    No doubt some other breeds and mutts have longer lifespans, but I'm afraid my life would not be complete without my beloved IWs. We are doing what we can to support various research projects that may enable us to extend their lifespan. Giant breeds as a rule do not live as long as smaller breeds, and some breeds, such as Goldens, Rotties, Cavaliers, Flat-Coated Retrievers and Bernese Mountain Dogs, may have shorter than expected lifespans due to various issues.



  8. #108
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    I think that one bottom line to look at is that the OP is talking about a mutt. Not a specific breed that has been linked to specific problems re: spaying/not spaying.

    Sorry, but I stand by my feeling that spaying mutts/crossbreds/whatever is in the best interests of everyone/everything involved. If you're into breeding/showing, etc., that's a different ballgame, but simply not spaying/neutering because "you don't think it's right" is wrong on so many levels.

    But again - that just my opinion. I'm never going to change it, & I'm sure those who oppose it aren't going to change theirs.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquishTheBunny View Post
    My freinds that breed them have only had 3 litters, and while they kept one from each litter the others went to pet homes so they are not sure what ever became of them. They have had owned 8 in total, none of them had osteosarcomas. Their oldest is 13 right now and he was one of their breeding males, which I think is quite incredible since average age is 7?? Very small population though, I though they had more dogs.

    To the OP, glad your girl is doing well
    Most responsible breeders know exactly what happens to each and every puppy they have bred, regardless of whether it went to a companion or a show home. Yes I would agree this is too small a sample to generalize. Yes, a 13 year old IW is almost unheard of, although there have been a few. That is pretty close to a record, especially for a male. Still intact?

    Knock on wood and my hard head, we have not had a bone cancer in the past 10-15 years either. Unfortunately we may and likely will in the future. It is a difficult thing to breed out, since one has usually bred before it occurs, so information on collateral relatives is very important, a major reason to keep track of all puppies including companions.


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  10. #110
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    No worries Houndhill. I enjoyed your posts about your Dogs. I should look into the breed more. I know there was a breeder in Burlington years ago.

    I am surprised there is next to no information on cases of open pyometra being treated by antibiotics. Almost all sources say that emergency spay is # 1 treatment, unless you intend to breed the bitch.

    Well how many breeders have treated with antibiotics and what was the success rate? One site said 76%.

    I know the infection could come back if the bitch is not bred or spayed. But there is a huge gap in knowledge about how this is treated and what can be done.

    My vet didn`t even mention other alternatives to emergency spay.

    The new vet is happy Shade has been started on the Orbax.


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  11. #111
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    But you're not planning on breeding this mixed-breed dog, are you?


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  12. #112
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    They are responsible breeders. Why would you make a comment like that? They know WHERE the puppies go, to whom and what their intended purposes are. They are not show quality, and are sold as pets. They do not call them constantly and ask "hows fluffy today, has he died of osteosarcoma yet?" Of course some owners share information when they pass on, but no - not everyone does.

    He was born in 2000 so will be 13 at somepoint this year, and yes he has since been neutered due to difficulty urinating (recurring prostatitis). He is the oldest one I have ever heard of, but I know there are many studies that have IW's enrolled that are 13.5+ years old. THis guy is suffering from CHF and isnt expected to live much longer, but so far no bone cancer. His name is Romulus, I dont know his kennel name. He is checked at our hospital once monthly for his heart, and although he is a tired old man he is still able to walk without a single hitch


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  13. #113
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    Aug. 30, 2007
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    OP,I wish the best outcome for your dog.

    For what it's worth, I had one intact IW dog live to 13 years 11 1/2 months. He was a remarkable and loving dog. He was shown, although never to championship. A rescued bitch lived to be just under twelve years old. Neither had any remarkable health problems. They both passed in their sleep. peacefully. I lost one at 3 years of age due to bloat as a result of a megasophagus which he was born with. The entire length of the esophagus was enlarged and it required a great deal of managment. His brother came to us with sarcoptic mange and passed of organ failure at two years of age. Another rescued bitch was with us until she passed at 8 or 9 years old. I have been very fortunate.
    "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you..."


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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnigh View Post
    No worries Houndhill. I enjoyed your posts about your Dogs. I should look into the breed more. I know there was a breeder in Burlington years ago.

    I am surprised there is next to no information on cases of open pyometra being treated by antibiotics. Almost all sources say that emergency spay is # 1 treatment, unless you intend to breed the bitch.

    Well how many breeders have treated with antibiotics and what was the success rate? One site said 76%.

    I know the infection could come back if the bitch is not bred or spayed. But there is a huge gap in knowledge about how this is treated and what can be done.

    My vet didn`t even mention other alternatives to emergency spay.

    The new vet is happy Shade has been started on the Orbax.

    I would imagine that emergency spay is the number one treatment for pyomeyra because of the high danger of sepsis, which is deadly. Unless the dog is a very valuable breeding bitch, treatment other than emergency spay is probably not worth risking the dog's life if antibiotic treatment isn't effective. The vet's going to want to do the surgery while the dog is still stable.

    Good to hear that Shade will be going in for surgery. Now you don't have to worry about the infection closing off.


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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquishTheBunny View Post
    My freinds that breed them have only had 3 litters, and while they kept one from each litter the others went to pet homes so they are not sure what ever became of them.
    Sorry Squish, did not mean to imply your friends might not be responsible breeders, I have no idea, but it was in response to your comment above that I observed that most responsible breeders know where each and every puppy they bred is, and what happens to them. I interpreted your statement quite literally, sorry if this was not your meaning.


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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacardi1 View Post
    But you're not planning on breeding this mixed-breed dog, are you?
    No, I am not a breeder and Shade will be spayed in the next couple of days.

    Its just that vets will treat with antibiotics if the dog will be bred. There is less chance of the infection returning. Not debating if that is a good plan or not, but there is very little information available on the outcome.

    My plan was to get Shade started on antibiotics and look for a vet that I could afford.

    Right now she has become a huge suck and is loving all the extra attentiion.



  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Over the Hill View Post
    OP,I wish the best outcome for your dog.

    For what it's worth, I had one intact IW dog live to 13 years 11 1/2 months. He was a remarkable and loving dog. He was shown, although never to championship. A rescued bitch lived to be just under twelve years old. Neither had any remarkable health problems. They both passed in their sleep. peacefully. I lost one at 3 years of age due to bloat as a result of a megasophagus which he was born with. The entire length of the esophagus was enlarged and it required a great deal of managment. His brother came to us with sarcoptic mange and passed of organ failure at two years of age. Another rescued bitch was with us until she passed at 8 or 9 years old. I have been very fortunate.
    Wow, that is so cool! I love hearing about long-lived IWS!! So sad about the megasophagus, I have had that too and know what a challenge it is to manage, that is great you were able to have him for three years. Know the heartbreak of losing a two year old, but that is great again with the rescue. Yes, you have indeed been fortunate, as we all are to have shared our lives with them, brief or long! But special congrats to have had such a wonderful old guy!!



  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    I would imagine that emergency spay is the number one treatment for pyomeyra because of the high danger of sepsis, which is deadly. Unless the dog is a very valuable breeding bitch, treatment other than emergency spay is probably not worth risking the dog's life if antibiotic treatment isn't effective. The vet's going to want to do the surgery while the dog is still stable.

    Good to hear that Shade will be going in for surgery. Now you don't have to worry about the infection closing off.
    Yes, but my point is there must be some information from breeders that went with anitbiotics on a valuable dog. I`m looking for that type of information. The closest statistic on survival using antibiotics I could find was 76%.

    It`s a moot point anyway. The dog will be at the vets in the morning.



  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnigh View Post
    No, I am not a breeder and Shade will be spayed in the next couple of days.

    Its just that vets will treat with antibiotics if the dog will be bred. There is less chance of the infection returning. Not debating if that is a good plan or not, but there is very little information available on the outcome.

    My plan was to get Shade started on antibiotics and look for a vet that I could afford.

    Right now she has become a huge suck and is loving all the extra attentiion.
    I think that repro vets would have the most experience in treating pyos nonsurgically. As I said, mine combines antibiotics with Prostaglandin F2 alpha,(this may be also called luteolyse). This is also sometimes used to terminate pregnancy, it causes uterine contractions (and sometimes vomiting, etc.). I have not talked to my repro vet in detail about this, but she mentioned in passing they have had some success with this in treating open pyos.

    I agree, there has been less attention to this than one would expect, but most people just spay if the bitch develops pyo, unless as you say, she is a valuable breeding bitch, or surgury isn't an option for some other reason, because a spay is usually curative.



  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnigh View Post
    Yes, but my point is there must be some information from breeders that went with anitbiotics on a valuable dog. I`m looking for that type of information. The closest statistic on survival using antibiotics I could find was 76%.

    It`s a moot point anyway. The dog will be at the vets in the morning.
    Those statistics would still mean that 1 in 4 dogs dies. Probably even most breeders wouldn't like those odds well enough to risk a non-surgical approach. Plus I wonder if a pyo affects fertility, if there is scarring from the infection?


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