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  1. #21
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    Chief2, thanks for that definition. I've only used colic in horse terms. But I know children can be "colicky" according to doctors.

    Rick, in Savannah, we have a dock on the river and my 2 horses have their own docks on their bodies. Used to have a sailboat slip at Lake Lanier, but my horses never had them. Well I hope there's no part of a horse that's a slip, especially in white hooves.

    OP, I am glad that the horse is OK. I'd give the owner some downloaded directions on "how to clean sheaths and penises" to prevent further problems. Wasn't there a thread on coth where people said they were paid to clean sheaths?



  2. #22
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    Mar. 24, 2012
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    I wouldn;t assume the owner does not clean the sheath. The OP said the sheath was cleaned by vet but vet thought must be irritation from internal parasite. That suggests sheath was not dirty when Vet checked it.

    I'd ask for a reduction in the bill. The vet should admit this was missed, apologize, and reduce the bill. The vet had tunnel vision for whatever reason.


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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    Still, every practitioner can tell a story about something that mimicked something else and was missed. One never wants to miss something BAD and call it something BENIGN--we are all programmed to assume the worst and start there, to some degree.
    This.

    Being a vet has to be so difficult. We (general we) get our panties all bunched if Dobbin has something serious and the vet wants to start conservative because the serious thing is unusual. We then turn around and get are panties bunched the next time when the vet treats the obvious very bad thing aggressively and misses the conservative simple thing.


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  4. #24
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    Aug. 7, 2012
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    Is the vet new? Has your friend used him before? Vets are human too. I probably wouldnt jump ship yet, especially if this vet has performed well for me and my horse in the past. If it was a new vet, the I probably would use someone else.



  5. #25
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    Oct. 6, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
    I had a friend who's vet treated her horse multiple times for colic for what turned out to be a staple from a shavings bag stuck in its lip. It had no appetite. Was tubed twice. I won't call that vet, that's all.
    Poor horse, how awful!
    ~Veronica
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  6. #26
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    Maybe once--I had a BO call me in a panic and call a vet I didn't even know (it was my first week in a new town and at a new barn) and pull me out of call in the ICU because my horse was "colicking". What she WAS doing was lying down and groaning, which she had done all her life and still does. The initial treatment was sort of "blanket therapy": banamine, walking, observation, and she was perfectly fine because . . . she never was colicking!

    My point is that I completely think the BO was doing the right thing, and the treating vet--didn't know me, my horse, it was 11pm . . . he did the right thing for a "suspected colic". But multiple visits for the same issue? I'd be a little less happy with that situation. NO vet wants to miss a potentially deadly diagnosis, but if things are not fitting after a couple of visits, it's time to probably expand the differential.

    Still, every practitioner can tell a story about something that mimicked something else and was missed. One never wants to miss something BAD and call it something BENIGN--we are all programmed to assume the worst and start there, to some degree.
    Deltawave, one of mine used to do exactly the same thing....he'd go out and roll and groan and roll and groan. I always warned someone new that he wasn't colicking...he was just really enjoying a good roll. If he colicked, he pawed.

    I'd give the vet a pass twice, but anymore than that? No way.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  7. #27
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    Chesterland, OH USA
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    I find this story interesting because a horse vet acquaintance was just telling me a story at a social event...grossest thing she had ever seen.

    Called out for horse with "colic". She looks at horse. Clearly in pain, but not screaming colic to her. During initial exam found maggots in sheath.

    Maybe sheath mimics colic pain more than we think!


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  8. #28
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    Jul. 14, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    This.

    Being a vet has to be so difficult. We (general we) get our panties all bunched if Dobbin has something serious and the vet wants to start conservative because the serious thing is unusual. We then turn around and get are panties bunched the next time when the vet treats the obvious very bad thing aggressively and misses the conservative simple thing.
    To a point.

    Example: a mare of mine had choked twice in the fall of '11. I called the vet but he had me manage the chokes on my own and they did resolve. Did a dental and there were no more chokes. Last spring on a Sunday night she could not chew- it was as if she had a fractured jaw or something. I put a small pcv pipe through her mouth to look for something but could not find anything from my redneck exam. Took her to the clinic the next morning and the vet said she was choking and treated her for a choke even though I gave him specific examples "she will tear off grass but cannot chew it. It almost seems neurological or like a problem with her jaw". Once he was done it was off to another clinic for a complete scope- he wasn't set up for a 3 meter scope- to rule out obstructions. The scope was clear and I took her home.

    She did not improve overnight so I took her back to the first Doc on the second day and repeated what I had said the first time "it is as if her jaw has a problem." and this time he put a speculum in her mouth and right there, on a lower jaw was a splintered molar. The splintered off piece had created a massive ulcer on her tongue. He sedated her and did the repair.

    He did not offer any reduction in fees for services but said "I guess I should have listened to you better yesterday." Ya think so dufus. I don't use that guy anymore. His lack of curiosity did cost me an extra $350- his $100 fee on the second day and the $255 scope on the previous day. In hindsight during the first exam I should have said "humor me and put a speculum in her mouth and lets rule out any dental problems". His first exam fee and treatment was $150.

    You have to use a vet that your personality works with, one that does listen and then rules in or rules out options and one that understands your own knowledge/observation level. The associate in the practice is awesome too. I've known her for years and she helped me with a chihuahua of mine this winter. An excellent chiro/accupuncture vet offered up that an MRI might help diagnosis what is going on with my chihuahua so I ran that past her, my primary small animal vet. She said "well you can get an MRI which may or may not determine what is going on however the treatment for the condition would remain the same, a course of steroids." I love that about her and she knows that I will do a great deal for my horses and small animals and that if I don't have to drop $800-$1000 for a MRI, I would prefer to avoid it.



  9. #29
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    Vets seem to rely on owner input, maybe more than they should. I know when I call mine, the first words from her are; "what ya got" ? I'm sure an uninformed caller could do a lot to lead them astray. Having said that, the vet should not be so easy to believe what they are told. Nothing should trump a THOROUGH examination.
    ... _. ._ .._. .._


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
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    I too would not use the vet anymore, considering the vet saw the horse in person 5 times. Misdiagnosing the first time I could overlook, because the owner may have thought it was colic too. But it should have become apparent after a while that colic was not the case.

    However, thank your lucky stars that it wasn't the other way around. A horse at my barn lived two weeks with a complete (and I mean complete) radial fracture that the vet diagnosed as an abscess before the effing moron finally did radiographs proximal to the fetlock. Every single other horse owner in the barn was telling the owners to get a second opinion because we all knew it was a fracture likely of the radius because the horse was super sensitive in the forearm, and the owners kept requesting radiographs proximal to the foot but the vet refused because she was "sure" it was an abscess. I about cried every day when I saw that poor horse trying to "sit" on the wall to get the weight off his front end. Another vet came out and found the fracture and euthanized. Needless to say, no one uses the first vet's services anymore.



  11. #31
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Deltawave, one of mine used to do exactly the same thing....he'd go out and roll and groan and roll and groan. I always warned someone new that he wasn't colicking...he was just really enjoying a good roll. If he colicked, he pawed.

    I'd give the vet a pass twice, but anymore than that? No way.
    This was my first week of my residency after 4 years on active duty, HIGH stress, ICU, I was the "new person" and off I went to the barn my FIRST NIGHT on call to sit with a horse. I never did live it down completely, and "obstructed horse" jokes dogged me for YEARS afterwards at that hospital!
    Click here before you buy.



  12. #32
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    My mare slipped badly one day and then neck was unwilling to bear weight on either back leg. The vet diagnosed it as back even laminitis despite the absence of a digital pulse, heat, or any history of laminitis or founder. I followed her protocol for a few days and when it was very clear that nothing was changing I had a my sports medicine vet drive in from out of town who diagnosed it is a SI injury before he even unloaded his equipment.

    The first vet's diagnosis was guessing a zebra when she heard hoofbeats BUT if it had been an exceptionally rare care of backend only laminitis then my mare would have been up a creek without immediate action.

    Although I am sure some people will disagree, these situations are why I believe in having two vets. My first vet does all of my shots, emergencies, and initial diagnostic work. If things do not improve or if I have questions about the protocol then I bring out my sports medicine vet from out of the town. The first vet is very good but I've had a few off diagnoses made so I feel more comfortable having a second vet ready to come in who already knows my mare.


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  13. #33
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    Aug. 7, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacardi1 View Post
    Oh for heaven's sake - SO WHAT. Get a life. Preferably as the English teacher you so want to be.
    You know why cowboys don't like Appaloosas?" - Answer: Because to train a horse, you have to be smarter than it is.



  14. #34
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    The nice thing about my vet practice is that it's a decent sized clinic. My vet is the hoff expert, another the lameness expert, another a really great surgeon, another a breeding expert. They all bounce ideas and problems off each other. Win/win for all of us.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  15. #35
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    I definitely wouldn't be happy, especially FIVE visits!!

    I once asked a vet about my gelding's swollen anal area. Obviously he'd had a very painful, explosive diarrhea. I wondered if it was worms. The vet said to use Ivory Soap to clean it and walked away. Annnd... A couple days later I had absolute, disgusting proof of wormy lifeforms up there...

    Thankfully said gelding has never met a dewormer he disliked, including PowerPaks.
    Born under a rock and owned by beasts!



  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by morganpony86 View Post
    the owners kept requesting radiographs proximal to the foot but the vet refused because she was "sure" it was an abscess.
    If the owner wants it and is willing to pay for it, the vet should do the damn x-ray. It won't hurt anything, at most it's a wasted expense.



  17. #37
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    It might make me look for a different vet, but I would still pay the bill. That's just how it works. If I chose to pay my vets only based on whether they made an exact and perfect diagnosis and/or successful treatment of something...well, I'd be blacklisted pretty quick!

    When my mare colicked, the local yokel vet that responded the first time was not sure she was colicking, and basically said, "I can oil her if you want" (shouldn't he be telling me what is right to do?). He's no longer doing horses, and good thing. His partner had to come out in the wee hours as things got worse, and she was certain the mare had an inflamed ovary that was ready to burst. Sent her off to the surgical hospital (which I had to tell HER about one less than an hor away as she was referring me to one a couple hours out). Turned out to be colic, mare ended up in surgery. I paid all vets, right or wrong. That's just how it works.
    Last edited by horsepoor; Mar. 14, 2013 at 01:05 PM. Reason: iPad issues


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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by eqsiu View Post
    If the owner wants it and is willing to pay for it, the vet should do the damn x-ray. It won't hurt anything, at most it's a wasted expense.
    Vet kept insisting it was completely unnecessary and would be a "wasted" expense. She was trying to save the owners money, so A for effort there, but the logic was tragically flawed. The vet was one of those who acted like she knew better than every horse owner.



  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief2 View Post
    Colic means "pain". That's it. It doesn't matter if it's pain from gas, impaction, twist, or sheath irritation. So the OP's original post can conceivably fit the colic diagnosis. And this is how:

    A boarder from way back had a horse with an allergy to tea tree oil. She didn't know it though, and cleaned the sheath with a commercial sheath cleaner that contained the ingredient. Three times she did this, and all three times the sheath became swollen and irritated so badly that the horse could no longer urinate, with the gelding exhibiting all of the signs of the horse in the OP. The diagnosis all three times until she wised up: colic. A catheter had to be inserted to drain off the urine, and banamine was used to control the pain and swelling until the sheath returned to its normal size. Once she went over to KY Jelly for cleaning, the problem disappeared. Two of her vet calls were placed after hours on the weekends, so she ended up with one heck of a vet bill. The vets involved are equine-only vets, and have taught in large animal hospitals. So yes, I can see where an irritated sheath with symptoms of pain can result in the colic diagnosis. If there was a bean in the penis which restricted the stream and caused urine to be building up inside, then there would be pain as well.
    On a side note - tea tree oil is really harsh, highly irritating stuff (whether or not one is allergic to it) and I can't imagine applying it to delicate areas

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...dhealth.health
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ako View Post
    I definitely wouldn't be happy, especially FIVE visits!!
    I guess they don't have a penis/sheath expert.
    Last edited by Equibrit; Mar. 15, 2013 at 12:33 PM.
    ... _. ._ .._. .._



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