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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2009
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    SE VA
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    Default 3'3' AO and AA?

    Can the same horse and rider show in the 3'3" AO and the AA at the same show? I recently saw someone post on Facebook about doing the 3'3" AO for the first time and then posted results from AA at the same show on the weekend. Can this be done? What about the horse showing both divisions with different riders or the AO and the Children's Hunters?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 1, 2011
    Posts
    2,077

    Default

    I would think so. AO is adult owner and AA is adult amateur. As long as the owner rode it in the AO and any adult amateur rode it in the AA I can't see how it's against rules.
    I'm less knowledgable on the childrens/AO thing but again as long as Owner shows the horse in the AO, to my knowledge the only think the childrens hunter says is that horse or rider can't compete over a certain height (maybe 3'3 or 3'6) so I would think that could work fine too.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2013
    Posts
    41

    Default

    Yes, I think the rule is a 3" height difference max.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep. 27, 2000
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    Southern California - on a freeway someplace
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    9,723

    Default

    Since the AA are zone only, the rules differ by zone. I once had the fun of calling out a BNT from another zone on this one. Here are the zone 10 rules: http://www.ushja.org/zones/documents/specs/2013_z10.pdf. You can get other zones by replacing the "10" after the z with another zone number in the URL rectangle.

    Since those instructions seemed to techie, I found the page that has the links to all of the zone rules (perhaps this should be a sticky at the top of the forum): http://www.ushja.org/zones/specifications.aspx
    The Evil Chem Prof



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,802

    Default

    I think it depends on your Zone specs. Here are the rules for Zone V where horses may not cross enter. Pay attention to specs for riders vs horses.

    You can find your Zone specs at ushja.org.


    Adult Amateur Hunter:
    To be ridden by amateurs who are no longer eligible to compete as junior exhibitors. Riders entered in Adult Amateur Hunter sections may not compete in any other class in which obstacles exceed 3’5” at the same competition, except equitation, jumper classes 1.20m and lower, Amateur Owner Hunter, Amateur Owner Jumper classes, the USHJA National Hunter Derby Classic and the USHJA International Hunter Derby. Riders competing in the Amateur Owner Hunter or Amateur Owner Jumper sections may compete on one different horse in the Adult Amateur Hunter section. Horses cannot cross enter into 3’3” or 3’6”Amateur Owner sections at the same competition. Ponies may be ridden by adults. If an under saddle class is divided by age and a rider has two or more horses entered, all riders must be amateurs but need not be eligible by age. When a section is divided by age of rider no horse may compete in more than one section. When sections are split by age they must be split as 18-35 years, 36-49 years and 50 years and over. Handy Hunter Classes are optional and can be added at the competition management’s discretion. Fence Heights to be set at 3’. The Adult Amateur section may be combined with Children’s Hunter Horse if there are four or less in either section.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2012
    Posts
    248

    Default

    No, this is not allowed. A rider cannot do both divisions on the same horse at the same show. A rider can do the AA hunters at one show and then compete in the low AO hunters at a different show though.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    May. 2, 2012
    Location
    AIKEN SC
    Posts
    243

    Default

    Looks like the OP is in Zone 3.
    Here are those specs.

    2013 Zone 3 Specifications (DE, Washington DC, MD, NC, VA, WV)
    In accordance with GR 1111.4: Contiguous states are: GA, KY, NJ, OH, PA, SC, TN

    Adult Amateur Hunter:
    To be ridden by an Amateur in possession of a valid Amateur Card. A rider in the Adult Amateur section is not eligible to compete in any class where fence heights exceed 3'3" with the exception of the Children's/Adult Jumpers and the USHJA National Hunter Derby. Course shall consist of no less than eight fences. Fence height shall be 3'; spreads not to exceed height of fence. Riders who compete in the 3’3”Amateur Owner Hunter classes must show a horse they own in Adult Amateur Hunter classes if they compete in both at the same show. If the Adult Amateur Section is split three ways it must be split from 18-35, 36 -49 and 50+. The Adult Amateur and Children’s Hunter sections may be combined if there are less than three in either section. To be judged on performance, manners, way of going and soundness. Suitability as an Adult Amateur Hunter to be stressed. Horses to be jogged in accordance with HU132. Zone Awards will be presented annually to the Adult Amateur Hunter 18-35, 36-49, and 50 + sections.
    Fan of Sea Accounts



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2012
    Location
    The Part of TN in the Wrong Time Zone
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    1,984

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PINE TREE FARM SC View Post
    Looks like the OP is in Zone 3.
    Here are those specs.

    2013 Zone 3 Specifications (DE, Washington DC, MD, NC, VA, WV)
    In accordance with GR 1111.4: Contiguous states are: GA, KY, NJ, OH, PA, SC, TN

    Adult Amateur Hunter:
    To be ridden by an Amateur in possession of a valid Amateur Card. A rider in the Adult Amateur section is not eligible to compete in any class where fence heights exceed 3'3" with the exception of the Children's/Adult Jumpers and the USHJA National Hunter Derby. Course shall consist of no less than eight fences. Fence height shall be 3'; spreads not to exceed height of fence. Riders who compete in the 3’3”Amateur Owner Hunter classes must show a horse they own in Adult Amateur Hunter classes if they compete in both at the same show. If the Adult Amateur Section is split three ways it must be split from 18-35, 36 -49 and 50+. The Adult Amateur and Children’s Hunter sections may be combined if there are less than three in either section. To be judged on performance, manners, way of going and soundness. Suitability as an Adult Amateur Hunter to be stressed. Horses to be jogged in accordance with HU132. Zone Awards will be presented annually to the Adult Amateur Hunter 18-35, 36-49, and 50 + sections.
    To summarize this, yes you can as long as the horse is one that you own in the AAs.
    .אני יכול לעשות הכל על ידי אלוהים



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 30, 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    406

    Default

    In Zone 2, the RIDER can do 3'3" A/Os and at the same show do the A/As, ON A DIFFERENT HORSE. HORSE, even with a different rider, can't do to the 3'3" A/Os and A/As at the same show. And, like Zone 3, the RIDER who does the 3'3" A/Os and A/As at the same show MUST OWN both horses although otherwise an A/A is NOT required to own their horse. Keeps the "pro" amateurs from doing the 3'3" A/O then stepping down and showing trainers horses or other horses in the A/As where they have a theoretic advantage over the "real" A/A riders.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2005
    Location
    Chicago
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    1,802

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hunterrider23 View Post
    To summarize this, yes you can as long as the horse is one that you own in the AAs.
    Are you absolutely positive? That's not necessarily how I read it, nor does that make sense. If you are showing in the Low AOs, you are by definition the owner, making this statement about owning the AA horse irrelevant. I think it means that you can show a different horse in the AAs, but you have to own it.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2012
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    The Part of TN in the Wrong Time Zone
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by snaffle635 View Post
    Are you absolutely positive? That's not necessarily how I read it, nor does that make sense. If you are showing in the Low AOs, you are by definition the owner, making this statement about owning the AA horse irrelevant. I think it means that you can show a different horse in the AAs, but you have to own it.
    I'm pretty sure the last statement you wrote and what I wrote means the same thing. Whatever horse you show in the AAs you have to own.
    .אני יכול לעשות הכל על ידי אלוהים



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr. 28, 2005
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    Chicago
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    Default

    I don't think you can ride the same horse in the AOs and the AAs. I thought you said you could ride the same horse.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2012
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    Default

    It's says you can't cross enter between anything above 3'3", and that you have to ride a horse you own in the AA, so basically it doesn't say that it can't be the same horse anywhere therefore it's not illegal in that zone, however it may be in other zones. If the op wants to cross enter between the two, the best bet is to call the show office prior to entries.
    .אני יכול לעשות הכל על ידי אלוהים



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