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  1. #21
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    Well, yes, it can happen.

    But this horse? With this training? The system that produced this muscling? No. The OP said something about the owner not paying anymore...something tells me he's not had the same training system as a good Young Horse campaigner. Something (i.e. the muscling) suggests (screams?) that this horse is not ready for canter pirouettes or passage under saddle.

    Quote Originally Posted by alibi_18 View Post
    With the right horse, right trainer and the right training system, 6yrs old schooling working pirouette, the beginning of passage and piaffe is not pushing the horse, especially a PRE.

    PSG horses can be 7yrs old. GP's 8.
    At the SRS, the horses are expected to be fully trained by 10yrs old for their carrousel.

    Young horses do develop in a uneven way. They don't grow up evenly either. It is normal. It needs to be adressed, but young stallions will develop their neck way more than their bum.

    I haven't seen this horse moving at liberty or under saddle so I can't judge if he's FEI material or not.
    Proud member of the Colbert Dressage Nation



  2. #22
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    Mar. 8, 2009
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    Montreal, Qc
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Lu View Post
    Well, yes, it can happen.

    But this horse? With this training? The system that produced this muscling? No. The OP said something about the owner not paying anymore...something tells me he's not had the same training system as a good Young Horse campaigner. Something (i.e. the muscling) suggests (screams?) that this horse is not ready for canter pirouettes or passage under saddle.
    OP didn't say why the owner wouldn't pay for the horse no more. But someone paid for this horse to be trained up to that level.

    You can say whatever, you don't know for real, unless you've seen it moving with or without a rider.

    Schooling pirouette is not doing pirouette. Schooling passage is not doing passage.
    And for PRE, it is easier than for the WB.

    I think we can only suggest the OP to have a PPE with a vet and get video/go try the horse with her trainer.


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  3. #23
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    Mar. 16, 2006
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    Larkspur, Colo.
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    I don't think the pasterns are too long, but to me he looks to have a slight club foot on the right front. This may account for the unevenness in the front pasterns you are seeing. I also do not care for the underneck.



  4. #24
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    Dec. 10, 2006
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    Chicago, IL
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    The training on him has stopped quite a few months ago. The guy riding him gets on him only once in a while (he's not the owner). Hence the lack of any sort of muscling. He is a bit thin. I think it shows more on the video.
    btw - guy riding him is quite tall.
    Canter clip:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqPWoxTXeqk
    Trot clip:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeSkllCWm1A

    I did ride him. He has a freedom of movement that I like. He's willing to go and to try and to listen (excellent temperament). His canter collects so naturally and easily, I could feel it was there. He doesn't carry much weight behind now but I can excuse that due to the lack of muscling. I know there are better horses out there, but I have a small budget, so many of them aren't available to me.
    He will get snipped if I end up getting him.
    Vet's going out to see him today for initial review. Owner had him trimmed so vet could evaluate better. He knows I'm worried about the front pasterns most. But I do have a number 2 choice in the wings.



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec. 10, 2006
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    Chicago, IL
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraceLikeRain View Post
    I think his pasterns are less concerning than other aspects of his conformation. However, uneven dropping of the pasterns in a young horse would be worrisome. Is the unevenness present even when he is recently (and correctly) trimmed and shod?
    The owner trimmed and shod him. So the vet is going to see him today for initial evaluation. He was stepping unevenly in front mostly at the walk when I went to see him. LF was growing a little wonky. I think trimming would correct the shortstepping I saw at the walk due to LF and probably the RH slight unevenness at the trot. But I don't know if the dropping LF pastern would be corrected with the trim, or if it's due to an injury or damage.
    Hopefully the vet will say yay or nay.
    I'm just worried about long term soundness potential. Soft tissue injuries scare me, having a mare (now 20) who is dealing with suspensory issues in back.



  6. #26
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    Mar. 26, 2011
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    Pennsylvania
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    Quote Originally Posted by FEIwannabe View Post
    The training on him has stopped quite a few months ago. The guy riding him gets on him only once in a while (he's not the owner). Hence the lack of any sort of muscling. He is a bit thin. I think it shows more on the video.
    btw - guy riding him is quite tall.
    Canter clip:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqPWoxTXeqk
    Trot clip:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeSkllCWm1A

    I did ride him. He has a freedom of movement that I like. He's willing to go and to try and to listen (excellent temperament). His canter collects so naturally and easily, I could feel it was there. He doesn't carry much weight behind now but I can excuse that due to the lack of muscling. I know there are better horses out there, but I have a small budget, so many of them aren't available to me.
    He will get snipped if I end up getting him.
    Vet's going out to see him today for initial review. Owner had him trimmed so vet could evaluate better. He knows I'm worried about the front pasterns most. But I do have a number 2 choice in the wings.
    If you like him, PPE him and get him. The soundest horse can go sideways in a moment - in truth you can't hedge against the future. It's all speculation. And as to whether you can go to PSG with this horse -a) why the heck not? b)man plans God laughs so you should enjoy the journey.

    And finally -IMO it's important to get a horse you can ride and want to ride.

    YMMV of course -these are ethereal opinions by online experts -worth their weight in gold.

    ETA: I rode one of those PRE stallions in classical lessons last year and watching your videos just made me go daaaaaammmn as my mind recalled how smooooooth it was. So there's my bias.

    Paula
    Last edited by paulaedwina; Mar. 13, 2013 at 09:48 AM. Reason: grammar -God laughs
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


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  7. #27
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    Jun. 28, 2012
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    Canada
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    Well I do wish you the best of luck with your PPE. Sounds like you like this guy and have a connection with him. With horses there are no guarantees and no crystal ball. If you do end up purchasing him probably starting over to make sure he develops correctly and gets more strength in his hind end would be a big benefit. It will help him to stay sound.



  8. #28
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    Oct. 30, 2009
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    Watched some of the woman riding. Looks like it could be a bit of bridle lameness to me.

    As far as buying. A lot would depend on the price and the vet check. Every horse is a gamble and I've yet to find one yet with perfect conformation.

    JMHO
    "I've spent most of my life riding horses. The rest I've just wasted". - Anonymous



  9. #29
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    Aug. 4, 2009
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    MD
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    Find somthing else to spend your time and money on....


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
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    Feb. 13, 2007
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    109

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    OP, if you don't buy him, would you pass his info along to me via PM?



  11. #31
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    Dec. 10, 2006
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    Chicago, IL
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFFarm View Post
    Watched some of the woman riding. Looks like it could be a bit of bridle lameness to me.
    That'd be me. I admit, I was holding him quite a bit, especially at first. The horse I rode the previous day needed much shorter reins and a lot more contact than I had, so he ran thru me at first. So when I got on this guy, I had more contact than he needed. I loosened up the contact a little about halfway into the ride and he got softer and more nicely forward.
    I'm just a TL/1st-ish rider and it takes me a few rides to get used to a horse. So that's why temperament is so important. He has to be tolerant of me learning on him.
    However the guy riding is a very good and soft upper level rider/trainer.


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  12. #32
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    Mar. 26, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by FEIwannabe View Post
    That'd be me. I admit, I was holding him quite a bit, especially at first. The horse I rode the previous day needed much shorter reins and a lot more contact than I had, so he ran thru me at first. So when I got on this guy, I had more contact than he needed. I loosened up the contact a little about halfway into the ride and he got softer and more nicely forward.
    I'm just a TL/1st-ish rider and it takes me a few rides to get used to a horse. So that's why temperament is so important. He has to be tolerant of me learning on him.
    However the guy riding is a very good and soft upper level rider/trainer.
    Girl, you know you want him. Stop being coy -PPE the boy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXmLRHnoSAs

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


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  13. #33
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    Aug. 28, 2007
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    I watched more clips on your channel. Here's what I've concluded. You need to choose which is more important to you (there's no wrong answer) 1. Making it past the numbers some day 2. Enjoying this horse.
    He looks like a very sane fellow with really awful gaits. A year with a great trainer riding him may be able to purify things to a point you may see 3rd one day on him. All pres are charming, sane, light and rideable. If this is your first time on one, or on a horse with many buttons, I suggest you sit on several more before writing a check.

    The collecting feeling you were probably getting was not him loading and shortening but probably just toe flipping.

    Again, if you love him and are willing to sacrifice your goals for much much lower ones, go for it. There's nothing wrong with giving a sweet horse a good home.
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble


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  14. #34
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    I think I would be more concerned about the fact that he has a rather massive front end compared to his legs or hind end - that is quite a neck and shoulder. He is going to have to get really strong behind to be able to lift his front end very much. But if he has the temperament and "try" you want, and your aspirations don't include GP at a national level, he may work out just fine for you.


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  15. #35
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    Nov. 8, 2006
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    This is a nice horse for his type. Sure, he's been out of work a bit, but I bet its reflected in his price

    I would get X-rays of the front feet and have them evaluated by a vet that specializes in shoeing evaluation (pm me if you need some names, should be about $50).



  16. #36
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    Feb. 10, 2006
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    SF Bay area
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    Collecting the canter and not taking weight on the hind end are oxymorons. Collection can't happen without loading the rear end and compressing. Otherwise it is a slow canter perhaps but not collected.
    RoseLane Sportponies - Home of
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  17. #37
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    Mar. 24, 2012
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    I don't think he has 'awful" gaits or terrible conformation.

    His conformation fits with an Andalusian who is out of condition.

    Those who are crapping on his conformation and movement - go look at confo pix and vids of PREs.

    They don't look like wbs.


    I don't think his pasterns are too long but his feet needed attention. very high heels for whatever reason- only vet and farrier can assess that.

    He goes reasonably well for the male rider-less so for the female rider- that may not be the horse's fault.

    I'd be more concerned about this than anything else:



    He was stepping unevenly in front mostly at the walk when I went to see him. LF was growing a little wonky. I think trimming would correct the shortstepping I saw at the walk due to LF and probably the RH slight unevenness at the trot. But
    .

    Certainly a detailed PPE would be in order if consdiering him. Although, I doubt I'd ever spend money on a PPE for a horse that was unsound at the walk.


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  18. #38
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    Totally agree, Crockpot.



  19. #39
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    honestly - no one can answer - because the ability of a horse to reach FEI is more about the horse and rider combo than anything.

    i would get on him and ride him - if i liked what i felt i would call the vet and have them take a look. if i still liked what i saw i would give it a go.

    most horses can reach 4th with the right person on their back. some will take more work than others. if you have a good patient trainer and you are determined you will get to where you want to go.


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  20. #40
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    Mar. 8, 2009
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    From what I can see in the video;

    I really don't think it is that awful. This is a long legged PRE that has no muscle tone. There's only as much you can do with 1 ride per week or so for the past...?!

    I would have the vet check the stiffles. It is his weakest part.
    The back is moving freely, he his crossing his legs quite good and he tries hard in the canter, lifting his shoulders/wither. I was expecting a sewing machine...but he has a long stride.

    Get him some muscles, a new correct shoeing job and voilĂ !
    (and now Yes, he needs some groceries!!!)

    He is more stable with his trainer than with you, where he get tense and short strided because you are just not asking him anything he really understand, so that is why he seems to be uneven.

    I would vet him.

    Unless there is a problem from now to then, I see no reason why you wouldn't make it up to PSG with this guy. At least schooling at that level.

    But who knows really?


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