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  1. #21
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    Gina Miles is only categorized at 1*. Pretty much the same situation.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by alto View Post
    This rule was obviously not made for ex-Olympians, take that out of the equation & it's not so bad a start ... Mr Tate is challenging as is appropriate &, I suspect, will prevail <shrug>
    I disagree. There are many well established pairs at the Advanced/3* level. VERY few riders, unless they have a string of UL horses, will have the number of MERs to be cateragorized. Hell, in the entire US, we have only 3 or 4 Category A riders. There is more than one rider who recently (like within the last year or two) ran around 4* events like Burghley....but will not be categorized because they do not have a large string of horses. These are riders ACTIVELY competing now, with no huge gaps. If they get another experienced mount, instead of doing schooling and a few Intermediate/2* runs to establish the partnership....they will have to go back to running multiple 1* before they can run a 2* to qualify again to run a 3*. That is not ideal IMO.

    The rule is dumb and overly complicated for no real reason.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **


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  3. #23
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    He is actually qualified to go out at 1* on any horse. H&H have made an error. My friend who was 4th at Luhmuhlen, 5th at Blenheim and 10th at Pau is also in the same boat but is not kicking up a fuss because she prefers to bring on her own horses anyway.
    Blyth has horses qualified at a higher level than 1* and on those he is fine its only if someone bought him a brand new shiny 4* horse that he would need to go back to 1*.
    The only place where success comes before work is in the dictionary.



  4. #24
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    What riders in the UK are finding though is that the first question an owner asks when thinking of moving a horse is what level can they ride it at. This has affected a very good, hardworking young rider who has done 3*.
    The only place where success comes before work is in the dictionary.



  5. #25
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    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this was published in Horse and Hound and in England, Novice is equivalent to our prelim!


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  6. #26
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    Right, and pre-novice is like training. Still kind of a giant jump back for an Olympic veteran.
    The big man -- no longer an only child

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugsgame View Post
    What riders in the UK are finding though is that the first question an owner asks when thinking of moving a horse is what level can they ride it at. This has affected a very good, hardworking young rider who has done 3*.
    That was what I was trying to get at in my posts. I could absolutely see this happening. If I have a horse qualified for a 3* and have to move him for whatever reason (rider is pregnant or injured for example)--this rule will affect who I'm able to move the horse to. I would not want my horse to have to run more events than perhaps are needed but may need to with some riders for them to qualify to compete the horse at his level (even if those riders are qualified for the 3* level on another horse). This will disadvantage many good riders. Especially those who do NOT have a huge string...and honestly, that is the rider I would rather support.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  8. #28
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    I hadn't looked at the FEI rider list before (http://www.fei.org/sites/default/fil...3%20(USA).pdf).

    I just have to say that (if I'm reading it correctly), I find it hysterical that my name is on the list and so are other COTHers like Deltawave, and we are right there in the uncategorized rider category in the auspicious company of Stephen Bradley and Corinne Ashton and their ilk. You can't keep a good smurf down!
    Hindsight bad, foresight good.


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  9. #29
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    I am with bnfe. The rule will destroy the sport. The only folks who will be at the upper levels in a few years will be the pros with big money/large strings backing them, further segregating the sport as Denny and others predicted.

    Just another rule designed to increase the monetization of horses and competitions.

    The rule is like making a NFL quarterback go back to college etc. because they took time off for one thing or another, e.g. Payton Manning or Michael Vick. While one may need to get back up to speed from time out, time off has little indication in the horse world as to one's abilities to ride, e.g. Mark Todd.


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  10. #30
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    The riders who make and bring along their own horses, which is very often the adult amateur or the pony clubber or the hungry young pro is already doing so and will continue to do so. That was how the sport was done by most everyone up until sometime in the 90s and it's still how a lot of people and horses get there, not in a factory eventing barn more in the Sylvester model. Those people (like you RAyers) will still be plugging along. So how will it only be the "pros with big money/large strings" at the upper levels in a few years? Or are you defining "upper levels" differently than me? (I think of Intermediate/** and up, maybe you are talking about mainly ****?)
    Hindsight bad, foresight good.



  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
    I guess I disagree with Deltawave on this one. I do think the rule is terrible.

    Even after time off....I wouldn't want a rule requiring any rider of his caliber to have to go back so far...especially on an experienced horse.

    Make them run an Intermediate and a CIC** to show they are ready but otherwise....making them have to get all qualifications is a really stupid result. No one is saying they should be able to go right out at a 4* level....but going all the way to the beginning is the result of the rule and all qualifications. This doesn't make any sort of sense.

    I wouldn't expect the DR in your example to have to re-start med school. Yes to taking some condensed education and CLE classes...but not all the way to the beginning.
    Totally agree Bornfree!! Talk about extreme, Leave it to the FEI~
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." Caffeinated.


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  12. #32
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    Badger, yes, in this case I define upper levels (FEI base) as 3/4 star.

    Think about it, mugs has alluded to it. Owners who only look at return on investment will put their horses with "established" riders rather than support a long-term effort. As Nina Ligon's situation this past year exemplified, you could do it as a one shot/one off with great wealth.

    Put it this way from a business POV. I am a random person who invests $200K on an Advanced horse with Olympic potential (I need the tax write-off etc. but I also want to get out from under the horse before it breaks). I can put it with trainer A who is already established through 4* or I can go with trainer B, who while they have ridden at those level, is not established, or I can go with trainer C who is the next coming of g-d on horseback but has no MER. If I am not a really knowledgable person of the whole in-and-outs of the system, I go with A because they are already "approved" to go where I want the horse to go.

    There is already limited number of wealthy owners/syndicates and the pool is going to get smaller, not larger. They are going to move their horses to where they can get the biggest return (unless they are only in it because they want to support horses).


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  13. #33
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    So looking at it in as "black vs. white" a way as possible, you are saying that it comes down to sponsorship vs. horsemanship? Because isn't the purpose of the top levels of the sport to prove that there is this evanescent and earned-over-time PARTNERSHIP between rider and horse?
    Click here before you buy.


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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    So looking at it in as "black vs. white" a way as possible, you are saying that it comes down to sponsorship vs. horsemanship? Because isn't the purpose of the top levels of the sport to prove that there is this evanescent and earned-over-time PARTNERSHIP between rider and horse?

    No.....it is fake requirements that have nothing to do with either partnership or horsemanship.

    It is a rule that has no effect to protect a horse or encourage horsemanship and if anything...may require more competitions rather than allowing riders to judge what is best for a specific horse and themselves. It discourages "new" partnerships being developed and forces a fake schedule without consideration for the specific rider and horse.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **


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  15. #35
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    I dunno. If the horse is a confirmed 3* or 4* horse, and the Rider is Blythe Tait, does it really make sense to force them back into a full 1* to 3* progression of Multiple FEI competitions to get MERs?

    Wasn't one of the things that was supposed to be great about Todd and Tait that they were excellent catch riders. That category has just been eliminated from eventing except for the few categorized at 3* and 4*.

    When it comes to buying horseflesh for the Olympics, only the Categorized need apply.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    So looking at it in as "black vs. white" a way as possible, you are saying that it comes down to sponsorship vs. horsemanship? Because isn't the purpose of the top levels of the sport to prove that there is this evanescent and earned-over-time PARTNERSHIP between rider and horse?
    I'll answer your question on a non-Blyth Tait basis. I have ridden in the same program for the past 15 years. During that time, I have sat on a lot of Prelim horses. Some were mine, some were my coach's, some were my fellow students'. We ride our horses using the same basic principles and training systems. We have always kept open the possibility of riding one another's horses at CCI* if any one of us got hurt etc.

    In fact, I did this several years ago when my coach felt she had too much on her plate to ride 3 at that level, so I rode one and she rode the other two. At that time, all I needed to compete that horse was one Prelim HT within 3 months of the event, as well both the horse and rider being already qualified.

    So you might say... wait a minute, Blugal, it doesn't seem like doing only one HT 2 months before the event is the best preparation!

    And that is true. But I had been riding the horse in lessons, hacking him, doing some of his gallops, and had ridden him before. Didn't need to spend thousands of dollars putting in 3 more competitions just for the sake of it.

    I'd say Blyth Tait's experience at 3/4* is much broader than mine at 1* -he can probably sit on a horse and "take its measure" within a few rides.
    Blugal

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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    ...that there is this evanescent and earned-over-time PARTNERSHIP between rider and horse?

    Come on, now. We know that went out with the advent of the short format. For recent examples, look at Nina Lignon and Karen O'Conner in London. How long were those partnerships developed? Like Wofford said, we are going to see, and are seeing, horse churn among the top riders.


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  18. #38
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    The added expense is going to be a killer for a number of riders. And from the horsemanship point of view, I'm not sure that we want our horses doing so many extra runs. It seems like some requirements would be good but that this is a bit extreme in the best style of the FEI. After all, they've been so sane about other things, like hypersensitivity testing...


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  19. #39
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    Hmm... so how would these rule changes affect those riders that 'never so much as jump a log' before heading out for a CIC**?

    Little took second and third in the CIC** with RF Azarah and RF Black Pearl, respectively. The two 8-year-old mares are both European imports. Lucinda Fredericks formerly competed Azarah, and Little took over the ride last summer.

    Black Pearl only recently cleared quarantine, and Hannah Sue Burnett helped get the mare settled and gave Little reports on her way of going. Little showed her in the jumpers for three days at the FTI Winter Equestrian Festival in Wellington but had “never jumped so much as a log with her” before arriving at Red Hills. She had previously been campaigned to the CIC** level by German rider Beeke Jankowski (née Kaack).
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...-red-hills-cic


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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse&Bay View Post
    Hmm... so how would these rule changes affect those riders that 'never so much as jump a log' before heading out for a CIC**?

    Probably it will not effect that particular rider at all as she has a large enough string and is competitive enough to get enough MERs to be a fairly high categorized rider (if she isn't already, she will be soon). To ride right at the CIC** level on a new horse she must already be categorized.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



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