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  1. #21
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    I don't see any problem with using a trimmer and a farrier. As long as there are no over-inflated egos involved. I have two horses, one gets trimmed by the barefoot specialist (a former New Bolton farrier who no longer shoes) and one shod by a farrier. If my barefoot horse needed shoes, the farrier would put them on, and if I decided to take the shoes off the shod horse I would put him in the hands of the trimmer. It would be more convenient to only use one person, of course, but for various reasons I choose not to.
    Delaware Park Canter Volunteer
    http://www.canterusa.org/



  2. #22
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    May. 23, 2012
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    Muskoka, Ontario CANADA
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    I do adore my barefoot critters, including the "therapeutically" barefoot previously foundered pony. However, as much as one can adore the barefoot ideal, some horses just can't cut it. It sounds like your fellow might be one of those... but you don't honestly know till you try. There are ways to make the transition to bare, so chat further with your trimmer and farrier.

    I don't have a problem with a little tender when getting used to barefoot. I go by the principal that I can't run on gravel at the beginning of summer, but by fall my feet are tough as nails. Same principal in my brain Good luck!
    www.muskokalakesconnemaras.com
    Wonderful ponies for family or show!



  3. #23
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    Dec. 29, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcmel View Post
    I don't see any problem with using a trimmer and a farrier. As long as there are no over-inflated egos involved. I have two horses, one gets trimmed by the barefoot specialist (a former New Bolton farrier who no longer shoes) and one shod by a farrier. If my barefoot horse needed shoes, the farrier would put them on, and if I decided to take the shoes off the shod horse I would put him in the hands of the trimmer. It would be more convenient to only use one person, of course, but for various reasons I choose not to.
    Thank you. And along those same lines, why would I not use a barefoot trimmer who specializes in doing exactly what I'm considering trying ... versus a performance-horse shoer who spends 95% of his time dealing with shoes and maybe 5% with barefoot horses (this horse's present farrier). The other farrier I use (for my barefoot horses) is probably 50/50 shoes and barefoot. He's great -- but I've never believed in putting all my eggs in one basket and have always split my business between farriers, choosing which person is best suited for which horse (e.g., farrier with really bad back does not trim my miniature horses!). Everyone has always been fine with that -- and how nice to have more than one person to call in an emergency.
    R.I.P. Ollie (2007-2010) You were small in stature but huge in spirit. You will never be forgotten.

    Godspeed, Benjamin (1998-2014). A life well-lived. A horse well-loved.


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  4. #24
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    Jun. 20, 2009
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    Hunterdon County NJ
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    I have a number of horses without shoes. I have also done shoes/no shoes when that worked. I have also had a string of horses go from all shod to all barefoot suddenly. (It's an odd combination of circumstances but it happened....)

    Any hoo, IF you have the time, the access, and the wiliingness to sweat, then 99% of horses could go without having a shoe nailed to their feet continually.

    By which I mean that IF you have the time to put durasole on them 6x/day and if you have the access to put on/take off hoof boots, and if you can be patient enough through trying out many different boots/foot coverings (casting tape, custom hoof boots,etc) until you find a hoof covering that works and if you want to learn to trim your own horse, then yes you have a situation that you can work it out with most horses most of the time.

    I have horses that require no maintenance on their bare feet aside from regular trimming. (Love that.) BUT I also have horses that require chemical (formalin based) hoof treatment, boots, and management of their work load. And this is a pain in the butt. Overall, it is much, much cheaper than shoes. But it requires sweat, grunting, occasional cursing, and a potentially long break in period when you have to get the details all figured out.

    I had one horse that the owner refused to pull the shoes on. Retired, comes and goes from field to stall as his main employment. BUT one year he pulled his shoes and pulled his shoes and pulled his shoes until we just couldn't keep nailing them back on anymore. So he got himself a pair of Cavalor boots. If it was too, too muddy, he stayed inside. He wore the boots every day to start. Then after a while he could go out in the mud barefoot, and the boots only went on if the fields were okay. Then eventually he was totally barefoot and good to go.

    He's an older OTTB and I am really quite amazed at how his feet have changed. They got much bigger and the wall thickened a lot. The soles got a little bit thicker, but really not much improvement there. But owner had the option to be flexible with turn him out/leave him in/do whatever works today. And that is a big part of it. You have to be patient and maybe leave the horse in a stall for a few days. Or not ride it. Or not jump it. Or try other hoof boots when they rub. Or try and shorten the horse's toe yourself when they outgrow the glove boots in two weeks. Etc.



  5. #25
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    Oct. 12, 2001
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    now he wears a beveled-toe, wide steel shoe with wedged pads.
    maybe you should take it real slow- see if you can move him to a regular shoe with no wedge and no pad first, and if he's fine there, then try the move to barefoot?
    If he's been wearing pads and wedges for years, his feet are going to need a lot of time to toughen up, and his legs will have to re-adjust to going without the wedges.


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  6. #26
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    Jun. 3, 2010
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    I pulled the shoes on my 21 year old, semi-retired thoroughbred last fall. He was coming out of wedge pads that he had been in for over a year. His hooves chipped up quite a bit from where his old nail holes were so they looked rough the first cycle but have continue to improve and he seems quite comfortable. I'm trail riding him a little bit in cavallo sport boots and they are working great. I definitely think it's worth a try.



  7. #27
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    Apr. 22, 2006
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    I'm a bit confused about what different people are referring to as "sore" or a little "ouchy". In my experience a horse should never be actually lame or consistently sore on all surfaces from pulling shoes. If it is a case of a horse being tender on gravel or rocky ground or something specific like that I wouldn't call that unable to go without shoes. That may be part of the transition period for many horses while a new hoof grows in with concavity to lift the sole up off the rocks. Remember that it takes 6 months to a year for a new hoof to grow in. Boots are very helpful during this time. The critical element is a very accurately balanced trim done regularly.
    "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp



  8. #28
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    May. 23, 2012
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    Muskoka, Ontario CANADA
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    Im talking about gravel etc. none have been sore on good footing or grass.
    www.muskokalakesconnemaras.com
    Wonderful ponies for family or show!



  9. #29
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    Feb. 18, 2006
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    east central Illinois and working north to the 'burbs
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptownevt View Post
    I'm a bit confused about what different people are referring to as "sore" or a little "ouchy". In my experience a horse should never be actually lame or consistently sore on all surfaces from pulling shoes. If it is a case of a horse being tender on gravel or rocky ground or something specific like that I wouldn't call that unable to go without shoes.
    Sound is as sound does. Gimping across rocks/gravel is not a definition of sound. If wearing shoes allows the horse to move freely and without pain on rocks/gravel, then regardless of what you call it, it tells you he needs shoes and/or some alternate form of hoof protection. And regardless if that protection is removed once every six weeks or so, or is removed daily, that horse is not barefoot and anyone who says he is, is fooling themselves into some self-serving/bastardization of the concept of 'being barefoot'.
    That may be part of the transition period for many horses while a new hoof grows in with concavity to lift the sole up off the rocks.
    Any [alleged] transition period that lasts more than a few days is telling the human connection that they screwed the pooch and that they damn well need to do something different.
    Folks, you need to get it through your non-horseman/woman head's that its not about what you want, rather it is about what the horse needs....
    Remember that it takes 6 months to a year for a new hoof to grow in.
    So what? Sound is as sound does. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Boots are very helpful during this time.
    If he needs boots, he isn't barefoot. If he isn't barefoot then why muck about with boots when shoes are a better option? Remember, its about the horse, not you.
    The critical element is a very accurately balanced trim done regularly.
    A proper/correct trim notwithstanding, the critical element is using one's brain and giving the horse what it needs.

    To paraphrase a phrase from the BUAtistas, "Boots are a bandaid........." lol
    Last edited by Rick Burten; Mar. 12, 2013 at 09:37 PM.


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  10. #30
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    Jul. 1, 2010
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    Rick,
    You have said a bunch here but, I have a question,
    If boots are a bandaid to the horse, what are shoes to the horse?

    IME, if you want a horse to work on gravel/stone, give him the time to live on that gravel/stones. Many horse owners do not or can not provide suitable footing for the horse to live on. Those horses will probably never glide across the gravel, shoes or not.
    Charlie Piccione
    Natural Performance Hoof Care


    4 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Piccione View Post
    Rick,
    You have said a bunch here but, I have a question,
    If boots are a bandaid to the horse, what are shoes to the horse?

    IME, if you want a horse to work on gravel/stone, give him the time to live on that gravel/stones. Many horse owners do not or can not provide suitable footing for the horse to live on. Those horses will probably never glide across the gravel, shoes or not.
    If you've got a cut on your foot a band aid can be a Good Thing. Preventing the cut is a better thing.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


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  12. #32
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    Aug. 4, 2010
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    Newtown, CT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    If you've got a cut on your foot a band aid can be a Good Thing. Preventing the cut is a better thing.

    G.



  13. #33
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    Jul. 1, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    If you've got a cut on your foot a band aid can be a Good Thing. Preventing the cut is a better thing.

    G.
    How is a cut prevented in a hoof?
    Charlie Piccione
    Natural Performance Hoof Care



  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb. 18, 2006
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    east central Illinois and working north to the 'burbs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Piccione View Post
    Rick,
    You have said a bunch here but, I have a question,
    If boots are a bandaid to the horse, what are shoes to the horse?
    Hi Charlie, I said I was paraphrasing the BUA....... Shoes for the horse are an orthosis that aids in protection, traction(or lack there of) and gait alteration whether therapeutic or otherwise. Hoof boots are, again paraphrasing the BUAtistas, a necessary evil, especially when the ham fisted butcher who removed the 'traditional shoes" messed things up such that the horse now needs a bandaid, or the horse owner, in his/her ignorance or stuipidity, tries to fit a round peg into a square hole by removing/have removed, the horse's defense against things in the environment that can inflict/cause pain, suffering, damage, to the hooves.
    IME, if you want a horse to work on gravel/stone, give him the time to live on that gravel/stones.
    How much time. What if, even after that interval, the horse is still sore/gimpy/lame?
    Many horse owners do not or can not provide suitable footing for the horse to live on. Those horses will probably never glide across the gravel, shoes or not.
    Wanna bet? Say, $10,000.00 ? After due consideration, forget that challenge. Its a sucker's bet and would be like me stealing candy from a baby.


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  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec. 29, 2005
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    Ojai, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Burten View Post
    Hi Charlie, I said I was paraphrasing the BUA....... Shoes for the horse are an orthosis that aids in protection, traction(or lack there of) and gait alteration whether therapeutic or otherwise. Hoof boots are, again paraphrasing the BUAtistas, a necessary evil, especially when the ham fisted butcher who removed the 'traditional shoes" messed things up such that the horse now needs a bandaid, or the horse owner, in his/her ignorance or stuipidity, tries to fit a round peg into a square hole by removing/have removed, the horse's defense against things in the environment that can inflict/cause pain, suffering, damage, to the hooves.
    Having started this thread, I have to ask -- are you really calling me stupid and/or ignorant?
    R.I.P. Ollie (2007-2010) You were small in stature but huge in spirit. You will never be forgotten.

    Godspeed, Benjamin (1998-2014). A life well-lived. A horse well-loved.



  16. #36
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    Jul. 1, 2010
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    Rick,

    I no longer bet any thing to do with horses. Last horse was when Animal Kingdom ran the derby. I won that one, lost it all the next time he ran. So I am done.
    But thanks for the offer, be carefull with that bet.
    Charlie Piccione
    Natural Performance Hoof Care



  17. #37
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    Jul. 1, 2010
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    ljc

    Rick would never direct a comment like that to an individual. It is sent out as being specific to a group and the people who follow, blindly.
    Charlie Piccione
    Natural Performance Hoof Care



  18. #38
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    Feb. 18, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljc View Post
    Having started this thread, I have to ask -- are you really calling me stupid and/or ignorant?
    No ma'am. Not now, or in the past.



  19. #39
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    Thanks for the kind words, Charlie.

    To return the favor, I offer you this:

    Q: How do you make $5000.00 wagering at the track?

    A: Start by wagering $10,000.00.....

    And, though I am not a gambler, if I wanted to make money at the track, I'd do it by shoeing the race horses......



  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Piccione View Post
    ljc

    Rick would never direct a comment like that to an individual. It is sent out as being specific to a group and the people who follow, blindly.
    Honestly, you sound like a blind follower of Rique.

    What forums have you been reading??


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