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  1. #21
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    Would Arthur Kottas qualify? How about Bo Jena?



  2. #22
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    I second Arthur Kottas.



  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost_at_C View Post
    Klaus Balkenhol?
    Most definitely! Is he still clinicing in the US or NA?



  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockpot View Post
    Carl Hester
    He's still competing.

    And the reason I made that a qualifier for the title of "Master" is because #1 It's my thread and #2 I felt that a teacher who no longer has to up hold a "rep" in the competition arena might be more free to express himself and promote riding as a pure connection between horse & rider rather than "what will get you the most points."

    Obviously in a perfect world these would be the same thing, but it's not always the case.

    Also, a "retired" competitor might also be more inclined to explore solutions in a more relaxed way, since they are not under the directives or pressures from owners, show schedules, etc.

    In other words, it would be incline to be more "all about the horse."



  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
    Ernst Hoyos

    Henk Van Bergen

    Dr. Uwe Schulten-Baume

    George Theodorescu
    No argument as to their ability, although GT's has lessened somewhat since he's been deceased for some yrs.

    However do all these folks come to NA? I thought Hoyos stayed only in Germany.



  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgianWBLuver View Post
    Thanks for this thread - I will learn some things that I didn't know and thats always welcome !!
    Heres my list from the "French" classical perspective:
    Philippe Karl (as of 2013 he will be sponsoring the Legerite series in the US. Although he is not coming here during the series and will not be administering the exams at the conclusion of this series , he is at least organizing and sponsoring it.

    Jean Froissard is deceased so not qualifying but he was truly a “modern Master” as one of the first French ENE trained who bothered to come here and work with many of our greats like George Morris.

    Bettina Drummond – one of the “real & undisputed” long time students of Oliviera. She resides here and teaches as well as gives regular demonstrations on classical equitation in the true Baucher style of Oliveira.

    Bartabas. The Master of the Académie du spectacle équestre of Versailles. The school opened in 2003 and while it supports itself with regular performances to the public, it provides an apprenticeship program of 4 years to qualified students from all over the world. The apprenticeship endeavors to follow the true old-time tradition of the methods of classical French equitation combined with fencing, dance and Kyudo. Bartabas, of profound classical knowledge, decided to go the performance route first in France then internationally with his Opera de Cheval “Zingaro”. He has traveled to the US with the Opera Zingaro on many occasions and occasionally works with performing artists from the Cavalia troop among others in addition to friends and contacts he has here in the states. Although considered by many of us as a performer, he is, in fact, a true classissist having studied the methodes of de la Gueriniere and Baucher under Oliveira, P.Karl, D. Jose D’Atayde, the list is very long…

    Thanks for including these Masters. I have no issues with "Masters" from other schools, mixed schools -- as long as they are producing the classically trained horse.

    Speaking of Young Masters, a friend of mine has cliniced with a young man he feels is a true Master: Julio Borba.

    I've watched his videos and I like what I see, but I'm not sure if he's still coming to the States. Anyone ever heard of him?



  7. #27
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    Thomas Ritter
    Luis Valenca
    Manolo Mendez
    Andrea Velas
    Jorge Gabriel
    Paul Belasik
    Sophie Pirie Clifton

    (I named ones not yet listed. There are many great suggestions this thread)
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyzteke View Post
    Thanks for including these Masters. I have no issues with "Masters" from other schools, mixed schools -- as long as they are producing the classically trained horse.

    Speaking of Young Masters, a friend of mine has cliniced with a young man he feels is a true Master: Julio Borba.

    I've watched his videos and I like what I see, but I'm not sure if he's still coming to the States. Anyone ever heard of him?
    Julio Borba Jr. is a real "blue-blood" of classical eq, having been born to an established horse family and having it in his genes. He trained with many of the Portugese and French greats including his dad of the same name, Luis Valencia and the very well-known (in Europe) Dr Guillerme Borba who rode many many years under Nuno Oliveira and was also instumental running the Portugese classical school (Escola Portuguesa de Arte Equestre) and in helping to start the Jerez School of Equitation.
    I saw the young Borba ride when he was a kid several years ago when I was working in Portugal as a groom, and he was good then. Now he is fast making a name for himself. He has a website with dates for his clinics and, yes he is scheduled for the states.
    Not to mention that as a young man now, he is really handsome, or as the gals say here in the states, smokin hot


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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
    Thomas Ritter
    Luis Valenca
    Manolo Mendez
    Andrea Velas
    Jorge Gabriel
    Paul Belasik
    Sophie Pirie Clifton

    (I named ones not yet listed. There are many great suggestions this thread)
    Sophie Pirie Clifton:
    Would you be so kind as to give me some background on this lady? Who did she train/work with - is she from here or another country? I tried googling her but not coming up with much. Thx much



  10. #30
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    Definitely Christoph Hess!!!!



  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgianWBLuver View Post
    Sophie Pirie Clifton:
    Would you be so kind as to give me some background on this lady? Who did she train/work with - is she from here or another country? I tried googling her but not coming up with much. Thx much
    I'll do my best! I found her through Paul.
    She is currently located in NC and I have lessoned with her many times with great success. She's mentioned growing up with Wofford, and then Lendon, and has spent the past 13 years learning from Belasik. She's on the board for the USPC (iirc), and is a stickler for proper, fair, firm and safe.
    She's also a balimo instructor and brings her knowledge of how the body works into the lessons. Her barn is full of a variety of breeds, all of which have climbed the levels on classical principle.

    I can give you her contact info if you'd like.
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble



  12. #32
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    Balkenhol is probably the best example.

    I can't believe anyone would actually put DuKnuffy on the list. You do know he never rode or competed besides some jumping as a kid? I know he spread a lot of stories, but way back when, he came over here as a groom and got his judging card before there were any actual riding requirements, and he's certainly never actually competed dressage, let alone at an upper, let alone an an international level. How is this a master? He's like the riding into the light French guy who published books and was loved as a clinician, and a horrendous rider. (I know. I ended up with a horse he "trained" into lightness. What a mess.)

    Great if you get something from him, but I am astounded at the growing and changing background of his credentials that I have seen in the last 25 years.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by fairtheewell View Post
    Karl Mikolka has a new website! IMO he is THE master in this country.

    http://mikolkadressage.com/
    cool! has anyone downloaded any of the PDFs? They look interesting but no info on the length of each article.....

    and if any from his camp are reading along: a book would be lovely!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
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    Hans Riegler, past Chief Rider of the Spanish Riding School of Vienna


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
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    MBM...re: Karl Mikolka's PDFs. I'm going to download some, and I don't know how long they are either, but I'll take whatever I can get..LOL



  16. #36
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    He's still competing.

    And the reason I made that a qualifier for the title of "Master" is because #1 It's my thread and #2 I felt that a teacher who no longer has to up hold a "rep" in the competition arena might be more free to express himself and promote riding as a pure connection between horse & rider rather than "what will get you the most points."

    Obviously in a perfect world these would be the same thing, but it's not always the case.

    Also, a "retired" competitor might also be more inclined to explore solutions in a more relaxed way, since they are not under the directives or pressures from owners, show schedules, etc.

    In other words, it would be incline to be more "all about the horse."
    Yes it's your thread so you can make up your own definition but not everyone will agree with your definition of "modern Master" or your premise that retired people must train in a way that is better for the horse.

    Maybe it's time to lose the idea of "Master" anyway. It's not wise to treat people like gods.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyzteke View Post
    No argument as to their ability, although GT's has lessened somewhat since he's been deceased for some yrs.

    However do all these folks come to NA? I thought Hoyos stayed only in Germany.
    As I explained above, your question brought to mind the book by David Collins entitled Dressage Masters. GT is one of the masters that Collins profiles in the book. The book came out in 2006 and GT passed in 2007. Sorry for the oversight.

    Hoyos comes to Fl to coach Lisa Wilcox. He has been involved in symposia, etc. as well.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller



  18. #38
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    "Master" is not the same as a god. A "master" is by definition highly accomplished in his/her field. There is a book called "Dressage Masters." Even unions use the word: Master Carpenter, master electrician, etc. It's a good word and it suits.

    I'll stick with it.

    If you'd rather have a different definition, you can start a thread with your definition. Seriously, when did COTH get so contentious? It's a simple, basically light-hearted discussion with some good info thrown in.

    And it's not like I'm fact-checking every suggestion made and will go postal on someone if they sneak a "fake Master" into the discussion. Apparently DeKunffy snuck in under false pretenses...

    Why get all chest-thumpy?



  19. #39
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    Why get all chest-thumpy?
    Are you talking to yourself, maybe?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    Balkenhol is probably the best example.

    I can't believe anyone would actually put DuKnuffy on the list. You do know he never rode or competed besides some jumping as a kid? I know he spread a lot of stories, but way back when, he came over here as a groom and got his judging card before there were any actual riding requirements, and he's certainly never actually competed dressage, let alone at an upper, let alone an an international level. How is this a master? He's like the riding into the light French guy who published books and was loved as a clinician, and a horrendous rider. (I know. I ended up with a horse he "trained" into lightness. What a mess.)

    Great if you get something from him, but I am astounded at the growing and changing background of his credentials that I have seen in the last 25 years.
    I don’t know about his later reputation or lack thereof in more recent times but 2 decades ago I saw him ride a couple of very difficult youngsters in Germany and he did a phenomenal job. I’ll never forget that.

    Who is the “riding into the light French Guy” you are referring to?? I know an American who wrote a book with the same title but he’s not French…

    Quote Originally Posted by Crockpot View Post
    Yes it's your thread so you can make up your own definition but not everyone will agree with your definition of "modern Master" or your premise that retired people must train in a way that is better for the horse.

    Maybe it's time to lose the idea of "Master" anyway. It's not wise to treat people like gods.
    We call them “Masters” out of the utmost respect we have for them. It’s a tradition in the classical world. You know like when you enter the manege (riding school/arena) and you ask permission before you enter because the instructor may be working on a sensitive subject and you do not want to disturb. Or like when you are a working student/apprentice and you are having a lesson but its not a lesson in the sense that we know it here. You are in the manege with several students and you are all working on different things and the master calls you over to explain something, or maybe he/she is so impatient with you that he ignores you for a while, or maybe he comes over to ride “your” horse and then you get back on and feel a transformation in the horse. Ask me how I know. You basically learn by osmosis in these kinds of schools. It’s a quiet, respectful, cultured, sometimes very frustrating but sometimes very rewarding, and very old environment where a certain hierarchy is followed and no ‘koolaid’ is distributed. (Oh and in some schools women are rare so its even more special breaking into the "boy's club" environment.) They are not Gods but we are there because we want to absorb their knowledge.
    Last edited by belgianWBLuver; Mar. 13, 2013 at 11:20 AM. Reason: added 1 sentence



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