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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    So if you compete in walk/trot & cross rails why would you cross enter in "Beginers Walk" ? And why would anyone need a "walk" class to warm up ? Learning how to warm up is part of showing.....
    I believe it starts with a walk class, then walk-trot, then walk-trot with one cross rail done individually at the end of the class. It's not as if they do the walk class and then canter a course two classes later.

    As I said earlier, it seemed to be mostly tiny kids who would have been at the horse show anyway with relatives who were showing, so this way they get to be a little more involved.



  2. #102
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    At local shows around here we have a division called Mini Short Stirrup, it is for kids under 7, they have a walk class, a walk trot class and pole course class. It's judged on Equitation. It's not a bad division at a local show. I'm not sure if it belongs at the olympics.


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  3. #103
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    Besides the big safety questions, the other disappointing part of this new division is the way it can further erode the local show.

    I see why trainers (who can only be in one place at one time) want a way to bring all clients to the one big show they will attend on a weekend.

    Also, what about protecting new parents from sticker shock? It would have helped my cause as a kid if one had been able to lure my mom in with cheap showing opportunities.
    The armchair saddler
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  4. #104
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    The pearl clutching over the lack of safety involved in classes at the big shows where children and ponies walk around a ring is killing me. How is it any safer if they do it at local shows?

    All of you old-timers who lament the loss of the days when you were kids and jumped on your ponies bareback and galloped around the fields with nary a care (or a trainer or a parent), are suddenly frightened for the well-being of those poor little rich children of today that you normally chastise for riding in nothing but the fanciest of arenas with million dollar footing under the watchful eyes of their ever-present parents and trainers standing ringside? Priceless.


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  5. #105
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    If I had kids and they were interested in getting into horses then I might consider a walk only class for them. If I were attending an A show because I needed something that wasn't offered at a local show then a walk class might make it possible for mum and kids to show at the same venue without too much additional trouble.

    However, I can understand why some people might be against it if it's pulling revenue away from local shows that are more affordable.

    @ynl: I hear what you are saying. My mom learned to ride by getting together with her cousin and catching a horse in their uncle's backyard. They were too small to get the bridle on easily so they just rode around with a halter and two lead ropes for reins. Needless to say, since they had issues with getting a bridle on, they didn't bother with the saddle either. They galloped around until either they got tired or the horse decided he'd had enough. Usually that meant something like them trying to get him to jump over a ditch and then horse decided instead to stop and dump my mom and her cousin in it. Amazingly, none of them ever broke a bone or bonked their head.

    the only problem they ever had was when their uncle asked why dobbin was so sweaty...



  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynl063w View Post
    The pearl clutching over the lack of safety involved in classes at the big shows where children and ponies walk around a ring is killing me. How is it any safer if they do it at local shows?

    All of you old-timers who lament the loss of the days when you were kids and jumped on your ponies bareback and galloped around the fields with nary a care (or a trainer or a parent), are suddenly frightened for the well-being of those poor little rich children of today that you normally chastise for riding in nothing but the fanciest of arenas with million dollar footing under the watchful eyes of their ever-present parents and trainers standing ringside? Priceless.
    You're right: It's just as dangerous for a walk-only-but-not-led kid at a big show as a little one.

    The money problem was separate in my mind, but a valid issue nevertheless.

    No "poor little rich children" or their parents asked for my concern, so I generally butt out. But I think it's a problem if a professional trainer doesn't let kid and parents know about the physical risks of this sport. I think this division does invite folks to think they are safer on horseback (with their short little legs or limited strength and skills) than they are. Rich or poor has nothing to do with it-- you don't want to see anyone hurt because no one told them.... all in the name of a buck because the trainer wants to hurry new clients into the show ring?
    The armchair saddler
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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coreene View Post
    Is this the step between leadline and Walk/Trot? Is a Beginner Walk division next?
    I guess its all for the pictures. Horse parents wanting to shell out big bucks to say thier kid shows at Thermal and a few pics for the fireplace mantle. Because, after all, it is all about the pictures
    Proudly Owned By Sierra, 2003 APHA Mare
    In Loving Memory of Tally, April 15, 1983 - June 2, 2010


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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynl063w View Post
    The pearl clutching over the lack of safety involved in classes at the big shows where children and ponies walk around a ring is killing me. How is it any safer if they do it at local shows?

    All of you old-timers who lament the loss of the days when you were kids and jumped on your ponies bareback and galloped around the fields with nary a care (or a trainer or a parent), are suddenly frightened for the well-being of those poor little rich children of today that you normally chastise for riding in nothing but the fanciest of arenas with million dollar footing under the watchful eyes of their ever-present parents and trainers standing ringside? Priceless.
    I think the concern is that the cluster #@$! of just one pony losing it, however briefly, in a ring with many other ponies, ridden by children who are unable to control a pony at the trot could be quite a mess.

    We "old timers" knew how to ride before being let loose (off the lead line) in a show situation.

    That being said, the likelyhood of all hell breaking loose in the "walk only" class seems farfetched.

    I'm not worried about it and really have no opinion.

    I think MHM is correct that most entries would be little ones who are at the show already and this is a way that they can participate.



  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    You're right: It's just as dangerous for a walk-only-but-not-led kid at a big show as a little one.

    The money problem was separate in my mind, but a valid issue nevertheless.

    No "poor little rich children" or their parents asked for my concern, so I generally butt out. But I think it's a problem if a professional trainer doesn't let kid and parents know about the physical risks of this sport. I think this division does invite folks to think they are safer on horseback (with their short little legs or limited strength and skills) than they are. Rich or poor has nothing to do with it-- you don't want to see anyone hurt because no one told them.... all in the name of a buck because the trainer wants to hurry new clients into the show ring?
    Backpedal all you want, but this thread isn't about the inherent risk in horse sports and whether or not parents are misled about those those risks by trainers when they sign on for lessons for their kids (and I highly doubt you thought it was when you read it and responded); it's about whether or not it's ridiculous for an AA rated show to offer a walk only class. And many of the arguments AGAINST offering such classes at these shows revolve around the "fact" that it is unsafe for those who enter these classes. I'm just calling bullish!t on those arguments.


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  10. #110
    Coreene is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
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    Here was the convo before I started this thread:

    Me: "Holy s**t, you will not believe this, Thermal has a Beginner Walk class!"

    Friend: "Oh my God, shoot me now, what's next?"
    EDDIE WOULD GO


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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydy View Post
    I think the concern is that the cluster #@$! of just one pony losing it, however briefly, in a ring with many other ponies, ridden by children who are unable to control a pony at the trot could be quite a mess.

    We "old timers" knew how to ride before being let loose (off the lead line) in a show situation.

    That being said, the likelyhood of all hell breaking loose in the "walk only" class seems farfetched.

    I'm not worried about it and really have no opinion.

    I think MHM is correct that most entries would be little ones who are at the show already and this is a way that they can participate.
    Yes - and my point is that the cluster #@$! of just one pony losing it, however briefly, in a ring with many other ponies, ridden by children who are unable to control a pony at the trot can happen at a local show just as easily as it can at an AA rated show. Cluster #@$!s can happen anywhere.

    I would argue that the children who show in these classes at the bigger shows are more likely to be mounted on safe, been-there-done-that, unflappable ponies who have been doing the job for longer than many posters here have been alive, than are the kids who start out showing at the local level on the backyard pony who's never been anywhere but oh hey won't it be fun to throw him on the trailer and take him to the show down the road at the local barn that might not be the safest place ever but we don't know any better because we don't even have a trainer?

    And this whole "we old timers knew how to ride before we went to a show" is bullish!t too. I was around decades ago; I saw plenty of people who were over faced and had lots of work to do (I was one of them - I was perfectly fine at home, but my green self was dumped by my green pony at every single horse show, every single weekend, for almost our full first year of showing). You just can't learn to compete by staying at home. And your horse or pony isn't going to learn to deal with the horse show environment by staying at home. And no one back then earned the right to be at those shows any more than anyone today does - they simple paid their entry fee just like today.


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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynl063w View Post
    Backpedal all you want, but this thread isn't about the inherent risk in horse sports and whether or not parents are misled about those those risks by trainers when they sign on for lessons for their kids (and I highly doubt you thought it was when you read it and responded); it's about whether or not it's ridiculous for an AA rated show to offer a walk only class. And many of the arguments AGAINST offering such classes at these shows revolve around the "fact" that it is unsafe for those who enter these classes. I'm just calling bullish!t on those arguments.
    What?

    You can read my post to see that I hold the same position I started with.** It simply has more than one point. IMO, you got confused about their relationship.

    Also, there are several sides to the OP's topic: No reason to assume it's only about wannabes infringing on some sacrosanct rights of the HITS showing crowd. I, for one, never brought up the point that this kind of class isn't a rated division because other non-rated divisions are held at A shows.... so no precedent of letting in some presumed riffraff is set here.

    And I am a pretty straight-shooter: I write what I think so I don't need you to infer something different. If you hae a question about my motivations, just ask!
    The armchair saddler
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  13. #113
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    ynl063w,
    No , it is not bullsh!t. We knew how to ride, how to control a horse at a walk, trot and canter, not to panic if we lost a stirrup etc.
    That does not mean no one ever fell off, or did something stupid from show nerves, but we knew how to control a horse and have a decent (not PERFECT) seat before we were allowed to show.

    Local shows provided the experience for beginners, and there were no classes for children who couldn't do anything but walk a horse, at the local level either, except for leadline.
    Where I lived anyway, I can't speak for others, no one went to rated shows as an absolute beginner.


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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydy View Post
    ynl063w,
    No , it is not bullsh!t. We knew how to ride, how to control a horse at a walk, trot and canter, not to panic if we lost a stirrup etc.
    That does not mean no one ever fell off, or did something stupid from show nerves, but we were knew how to control a horse and have a decent (not PERFECT) seat before we were allowed to show.

    Local shows provided the experience for beginners. Where I lived anyway, I can't speak for others, no one went to rated shows as an absolute beginner.
    Yes, decades ago green riders were able to work out the beginner kinks at local shows; unfortunately, those local shows just don't exist anymore in most areas. For many today, the only place to work out those kinks is at the shows that are part of the big AA circuits. Why begrudge them that? And I still maintain that safety is absolutely no more an issue for a beginner at a big circuit AA show than it is at a local show (and might likely be less so for reasons already mentioned).

    The point is, every beginner rider has to learn somewhere, and the beginners of today just don't have the opportunity to learn in the same exact environment that riders in the past experienced. Everyone needs to have the opportunity to f$%k up somewhere in order to learn and improve. Thank goodness some kind of opportunity still exists SOMEWHERE. Why is it such a bad thing if it's also where these beginners can watch riders like McLain, Beezie, Reed, etc at the same show?


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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by doublesstable View Post
    A tad flaw in your calculations - the riders were not all given a blue ribbon.
    Oops, sorry. I didn't intend that to be read literally.
    An auto-save saved my post.

    I might be a cylon



  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynl063w View Post
    The pearl clutching over the lack of safety involved in classes at the big shows where children and ponies walk around a ring is killing me. How is it any safer if they do it at local shows?

    All of you old-timers who lament the loss of the days when you were kids and jumped on your ponies bareback and galloped around the fields with nary a care (or a trainer or a parent), are suddenly frightened for the well-being of those poor little rich children of today that you normally chastise for riding in nothing but the fanciest of arenas with million dollar footing under the watchful eyes of their ever-present parents and trainers standing ringside? Priceless.
    If you are going to use my exact words then please be accurate about my standpoint - nothing in my post refers to the safety issue of these classes!



  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by enjoytheride View Post
    I guess you'd have to ask all those 2' 6" riders if they have any desire to show hire before you put on your judgy pants. Some riders are limited in height due to time, money, courage, or horse. Maybe they're on an older horse who can't take the wear and tear, or they can't afford a horse with the step, or they work full time, or maybe those bigger fences just look scary.

    The type of horse and the training required for the bigger classes can be way out of someone's budget.

    If they want to spend their money on an A show why not let them?
    By that logic, should I expect that an ice skating competition should hold classes for me, someone who is able to lace up skates and skate forward for 10 yards? Maybe I don't want to learn any more before getting out there with the big boys. Maybe I don't have the courage to spin or jump, but I want to put on a spangly costume and get an award for knowing next to nothing about my sport and being a rank beginner.

    This is NOT what showing is about, or at least it's not what it should be about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Linny View Post
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynl063w View Post
    Yes, decades ago green riders were able to work out the beginner kinks at local shows; unfortunately, those local shows just don't exist anymore in most areas. For many today, the only place to work out those kinks is at the shows that are part of the big AA circuits. Why begrudge them that? And I still maintain that safety is absolutely no more an issue for a beginner at a big circuit AA show than it is at a local show (and might likely be less so for reasons already mentioned).

    The point is, every beginner rider has to learn somewhere, and the beginners of today just don't have the opportunity to learn in the same exact environment that riders in the past experienced. Everyone needs to have the opportunity to f$%k up somewhere in order to learn and improve. Thank goodness some kind of opportunity still exists SOMEWHERE. Why is it such a bad thing if it's also where these beginners can watch riders like McLain, Beezie, Reed, etc at the same show?
    I don't think it's such a bad thing. It's just..different.

    As I wrote before, a bunch of kids unable to control a horse/pony at a trot all together in a ring could be a mess, but it's unlikely, and I don't think the safety issue changes with the venue.

    It's fine for little ones to have a class to enter while everyone else is showing.
    Weird for a rated show, but not the end of the world.



  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by feather river View Post
    I guess the next thing is Beginner Stand. someone just leads them into the arena and parks them all in a line in the middle. The announcer announces the start of the class, and we all watch for one minute. Then the announcer announces the end of the class. The judge walks out and pins them 1 thru 9. What a racket. Who says horse show managers cannot legally steal.
    It's not stealing if the "victims" reach into their pockets & throw money at them!
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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillyHorse View Post
    By that logic, should I expect that an ice skating competition should hold classes for me, someone who is able to lace up skates and skate forward for 10 yards? Maybe I don't want to learn any more before getting out there with the big boys. Maybe I don't have the courage to spin or jump, but I want to put on a spangly costume and get an award for knowing next to nothing about my sport and being a rank beginner.

    This is NOT what showing is about, or at least it's not what it should be about.
    Great example, SH. It diminishes the sport. It is bad for everyone if the B and C shows become extinct. That way only the wealthy will be able to afford to show and there will be no place for beginners to practice. And people that have not become proficient enough to really ride capably will have their horses drugged for them so they can compete. "Look, Mom... I can wear a shadbelly and participate in the Beginner Walk Classic" at Devon!


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