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  1. #81
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    I was insulted and accused of deliberately trying to start a train wreck. Guess that's ok.



  2. #82
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    I have been accused of worse....Good information is surfacing due to your thread.

    ANGELA...I decided to call a kill buyer..any kill buyer that I could locate. In the Western Producer (Saskatchewan) there was a man listed so I called him

    He says the passport system is the BEST thing that has happened to the industry.

    The feedlots already have around 38000...yup...no extra zero... that they have been maintaining for over 6 months for about 1/4 of that number.

    Europe does NOT have any solid proof of single ownership for a horse in the past six months which is THEIR requirement. They just take the word of the seller.

    In North America..the horse will have been under the control of ONE agency for a minimum of 6 months.

    In Europe..many sign they know the horse has never had any drugs...but he says they can not prove it. I asked if it would ever reach a lifetime passport...he said not to his knowledge..

    Two slaughter houses in Canada have each opened feedlots..and it is very revolutionary. The horses stay in the very same group from start to finish. Like a herd. Only sickness or injury results in the removal of a horse.

    ALL of this has come to fruition due to the marketplace.



  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    That is a cattle magazine, just like COTH is a horse magazine, no "agenda" behind that any more than it is behind COTH.
    Oh, okay. But since you stated you didn't know what the Cattle Network was (after posting links to them on a fairly regular basis) I'm glad to see your memory has returned.



  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abercrombie View Post
    Oh, okay. But since you stated you didn't know what the Cattle Network was (after posting links to them on a fairly regular basis) I'm glad to see your memory has returned.
    Yeah, I didn't even know that is the name that magazine publishes under.

    There are several cattle magazines, of all kinds, several just for dairy cattle, several breed magazines, all kinds out there, just as we have for horses.
    That one I linked to is called Drovers.
    I could not imagine what you were talking about with that "agenda" comment.



  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    I have the evidence as I worked for them for two years.

    They attend school "work days" that their kids are enrolled at and they go in and explain to children that their parents are EVIL and that pet dog or cat has a horrible life as it is controlled by humans.

    They go to slaughter plants i.e. Fort MacLeod and they throw fire crackers at the horses to make them bolt and injur themselves..all while trying to get it on film making it look like it was workers.

    HSUS has almost 60 million dollars PER YEAR they use for their lobby groups. They employ approximately 50 lawyers..give five in either direction. One of their lawyers is on the agricultural advisory board to the Presidient. Waynes wife runs the Hollywood L.A. branch and they spend MILLIONS on their "movie star" clients..especially the young kids who appeal to a younger audience.

    Stopping ownership has not been achieved due to the lack of money tossed at it by HSUS (not so much PETA as they are very busy in Europe with ALF and other groups.) but it has been stopped because horse owners FINALLY woke up..and they realized they almost missed the bus. The dog show crowd discovered a long long time ago how these groups operate...

    So Jenn..care to share with us YOUR solution to the evil slaughter?
    First of all, the question was for Bluey, who is the most paranoid of all of you who support slaughter. She posts time and again that if slaughter in the U.S. is made illegal, the next step will be to take away our rights to having horses and riding, driving, them etc. I keep asking her for proof they have the power to do this, and she's not answering the question, and you, Leo have answered it in a round about way without providing the EVIDENCE I asked for, just like Angela Freda posted.

    As for solutions, I've said this before: Go back and read the many other slaughter threads on which I and others have posted solutions. You will also note that every solution that was posed, gets ripped apart by either you, Bluey, Alagirl, 7HL, Lynwood, etc.

    I don't believe you will support a solution. If you do, why not start a thread entitled "Alternatives to Slaughter, post your ideas." ?

    I'm sure there are many people on this thread who would like to share ideas, unfortunately, anyone who is against slaughter is immediately labeled a RARA or Animal Rights Extremist and are insulted. You don't believe me, just go back and look at older threads. I don't blame people for not wanting to participate and share ideas because they aren't treated with respect.

    Case in point:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hpilot View Post
    I was insulted and accused of deliberately trying to start a train wreck. Guess that's ok.
    Last edited by jenm; Mar. 9, 2013 at 06:25 PM. Reason: added quote
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    First of all, the question was for Bluey, who is the most paranoid of all of you who support slaughter. She posts time and again that if slaughter in the U.S. is made illegal, the next step will be to take away our rights to having horses and riding, driving, them etc. I keep asking her for proof they have the power to do this, and she's not answering the question, and you, Leo have answered it in a round about way without providing the EVIDENCE I asked for, just like Angela Freda posted.

    As for solutions, I've said this before: Go back and read the many other slaughter threads on which I and others have posted solutions. You will also note that every solution that was posed, gets ripped apart by either you, Bluey, Alagirl, 7HL, Lynwood, etc.

    I don't believe you will support a solution. If you do, why not start a thread entitled "Alternatives to Slaughter, post your ideas." ?

    I'm sure there are many people on this thread who would like to share ideas, unfortunately, anyone who is against slaughter is immediately labeled a RARA or Animal Rights Extremist and are insulted. You don't believe me, just go back and look at older threads. I don't blame people for not wanting to participate and share ideas because they aren't treated with respect.

    Case in point:
    You got that backwards.

    Every time someone posts about the ban slaughter drive, certain posters, I won't call them out or say what I think of them, as you do there, jump right in with all those myths and misinformation animal rights extremists use for their propaganda.

    I am not saying if we want to have or not slaughter, I want to say we should not ban slaughter on animal rights extremists agendas, because in the end, their ultimate goal is to ban all we do with animals and slaughter is just one more step in that ladder to them, for us a good place to try to stop them.
    Read the already posted links on who those groups are and what they are on record saying they want and yes, it is ending animal uses by humans, "freeing" the poor slaves they think animals are.
    That includes the horses we breed, train and ride and all other we do with them.
    You really can't deny that, if you like who is pointing that out or not:

    http://activistcash.com/organization...united-states/

    When it comes to slaughter, I will repeat, it is one more way we use SOME horses as the natural, renewable resource those are, as every other country in the world that has horses do, because it is the sensible way to use those horses, not wantonly waste them.

    Only in the USA, because of the animal rights extremist drives to ban, that closed the existing plants in 2007, do we send those horses to other countries to be slaughtered.
    I know that slaughter is just as good or not so good as you manage it, just as every other we do in life is.
    It is not at all like dog fighting, as you compare it to, if you just stop to read other than animal rights propaganda telling you so.

    You propose we have euthanizing clinics to kill those horses that now go to slaughter and then what, send them to the landfill?
    You think that makes any sense, when we have others that can use all that those horses are once dead one more time for something else than adding to the trash pile?

    THAT I think is absurd on several counts.
    THAT is why I am against the ban slaughter drive.
    I don't care either way, if we do or not have slaughter plants.
    I do care that we don't ban slaughter just because some extremists are using that for their agendas and because doing so doesn't make sense, slaughter is not dog fighting, is a very regulated supervised process thru which many in this world use SOME of our horses as the natural, renewable resource those can be for us.
    Last edited by Bluey; Mar. 9, 2013 at 06:57 PM.



  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    You got that backwards.

    Every time someone posts about the ban slaughter drive, certain posters, I won't call them out or say what I think of them, as you do there, jump right in with all those myths and misinformation animal rights extremists use for their propaganda.

    Nevermind that many people have taken the time to research the information they post, which surprisingly is not propoganda, but you automatically think anyone against it relies soley on propaganda to shape their beliefs. Not True.
    I am not saying if we want to have or not slaughter, I want to say we should not ban anything on animal rights extremists agendas, because in the end, their ultimate goal is to ban all we do with animals.

    So what? Let them have their agenda. Again, I ask you, what evidence do you have to show they are making any headway into banning use of animals for anything? Evidence, please.

    Read the already posted links on who those groups are and what they are on record saying they want and yes, it is ending animal uses by humans, "freeing" the poor slaves they think animals are.
    That includes the horses we breed, train and ride and all other we do with them.

    Of course we see what those web pages state. What I wonder is why you continue to believe they will be successful?

    When it comes to slaughter, I will repeat, it is one more way we use SOME horses as the natural, renewable resource those are, as every other country in the world that has horses do, because it is the sensible way to use those horses, not wantonly waste them.

    As was pointed out to you on another thread. Despite what you post, horses are NOT a "renewable resource". To help you out, here is the definition of renewable resource:

    Noun 1. renewable resource - any natural resource (as wood or solar energy) that can be replenished naturally with the passage of time


    Only in the USA, because of the animal rights extremist drives to ban, that closed the existing plants in 2007, do we send those horses to other countries to be slaughtered.

    Horses were routinely sent to other countries to be slaughtered even when we had plants here in the U.S.

    I know that slaughter is just as good or not so good as you manage it, just as every other we do in life is.
    It is not at all like dog fighting, as you compare it to, if you just stop to read other than animal rights propaganda telling you so.

    You propose we have euthanizing clinics to kill those horses that now go to slaughter and then what, send them to the landfill?
    You think that makes any sense, when we have others that can use all that those horses are once dead one more time for something else than adding to the trash pile?

    Oh, right. Because ALL of those horses going to slaughter are old and lame and no one would ever want them.

    THAT I think is absurd on several counts.
    THAT is why I am against the ban slaughter drive.
    Well, if the ban on horse slaughter stays in place, what are you going to do? Help come up with a solution?
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg



  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    Well, if the ban on horse slaughter stays in place, what are you going to do? Help come up with a solution?
    What ban on horse slaughter?
    We don't have one, other than in some specific places.
    There are some horses right now being slaughtered, just not for human consumption, that is where they really can be used fully.
    Any other is mostly rendering and that wastes so much of what many could be used for once dead.

    And yes, for your information, horses ARE a natural, renewable resource for humans.
    Look the definition of such up if you don't believe it.

    Right now there is one plant I know of already just waiting for inspectors to go on, already have the contracts to sell the meat.
    They are waiting for the USDA to send them inspectors.
    Those are held up by, guess what, animal rights extremists lobbying against that.

    If and when they open, guess what, there will be animal rights extremist and their followers right there, trying to shut it down and loving the free publicity that will bring them.



  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    I have been accused of worse....Good information is surfacing due to your thread.

    ANGELA...I decided to call a kill buyer..any kill buyer that I could locate. In the Western Producer (Saskatchewan) there was a man listed so I called him

    He says the passport system is the BEST thing that has happened to the industry.

    The feedlots already have around 38000...yup...no extra zero... that they have been maintaining for over 6 months for about 1/4 of that number.

    Europe does NOT have any solid proof of single ownership for a horse in the past six months which is THEIR requirement. They just take the word of the seller.

    In North America..the horse will have been under the control of ONE agency for a minimum of 6 months.

    In Europe..many sign they know the horse has never had any drugs...but he says they can not prove it. I asked if it would ever reach a lifetime passport...he said not to his knowledge..

    Two slaughter houses in Canada have each opened feedlots..and it is very revolutionary. The horses stay in the very same group from start to finish. Like a herd. Only sickness or injury results in the removal of a horse.

    ALL of this has come to fruition due to the marketplace.
    What you keep ignoring is that the EU and many other government agencies have a list of drugs that are not allowed in horsemeat for human consumption, never ever, no how, no way.
    They include bute and many other drugs commonly used here in the US by owners without Veterinary supervision.

    The EU has stated that starting in July 2013 they will require passports for all horses slaughtered for human consumption, and those passports had better not have bute and any of those other 'never, ever' banned substances.
    This is not a case of letting the horse stand on a feedlot for 6 months and they are clean' and the EU will take them... this is a list of commonly used drugs that once the horse gets one dose, just one gm of bute, that horse can NOt be slaughtered for human consumption.

    These are not drugs that they allow a clearing period for, these are drugs they DO NOT WANT horses destined for slaughter for human consumption to have had, EVER.

    You can pretend all day long that those feedlots are the answer to your prayers... but the EU was already aware that US horses are not 'clean', and now with the whole horsemeat pretending to be beef that had bute in it fiasco... they will be even more wary, because their customers will demand it.
    You say they'll test for bute.
    I sure hope so cause then they will see how these fantastic feedlots you're so proud of have tried to circumvent their requirements.
    You say Asia will take the drugged up meat.
    I posted the requirements for Japan and was not shocked when that information was ignored as you all instead continued on with the same old same old.

    I will take the EU/MLHW/USDA/FSIS/CFIAs word, documented, accessible, verifiable word for what they want and will accept over some guy you [whomever you are] talked to once.


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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    What you keep ignoring is that the EU and many other government agencies have a list of drugs that are not allowed in horsemeat for human consumption, never ever, no how, no way.
    They include bute and many other drugs commonly used here in the US by owners without Veterinary supervision.

    The EU has stated that starting in July 2013 they will require passports for all horses slaughtered for human consumption, and those passports had better not have bute and any of those other 'never, ever' banned substances.
    This is not a case of letting the horse stand on a feedlot for 6 months and they are clean' and the EU will take them... this is a list of commonly used drugs that once the horse gets one dose, just one gm of bute, that horse can NOt be slaughtered for human consumption.

    These are not drugs that they allow a clearing period for, these are drugs they DO NOT WANT horses destined for slaughter for human consumption to have had, EVER.

    You can pretend all day long that those feedlots are the answer to your prayers... but the EU was already aware that US horses are not 'clean', and now with the whole horsemeat pretending to be beef that had bute in it fiasco... they will be even more wary, because their customers will demand it.
    You say they'll test for bute.
    I sure hope so cause then they will see how these fantastic feedlots you're so proud of have tried to circumvent their requirements.
    You say Asia will take the drugged up meat.
    I posted the requirements for Japan and was not shocked when that information was ignored as you all instead continued on with the same old same old.

    I will take the EU/MLHW/USDA/FSIS/CFIAs word, documented, accessible, verifiable word for what they want and will accept over some guy you [whomever you are] talked to once.
    So what I want to know is, why do COTH'ers have such a morbid fascination with slaughter?

    BTW, arguing with the Usual Suspects here is like arguing with a large rock; you will exhaust yourself fruitlessly and the rock won't move a bit. Just sayin'!


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  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    So what I want to know is, why do COTH'ers have such a morbid fascination with slaughter?

    BTW, arguing with the Usual Suspects here is like arguing with a large rock; you will exhaust yourself fruitlessly and the rock won't move a bit. Just sayin'!
    Because these issues matter to all of us that have horses.
    Our rights to have and use horses depend on informing all we can of what we are against with animal rights agendas biting at the heels of animal use, including all we do with horses, not just slaughter.

    So what if some of their followers come here to argue.
    The general public at least will have some more to go by and eventually will realize what is at stake.
    The more they learn about these important matters to all that have horses, the better we all that want to keep those rights to have them will fare.



  12. #92
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    Angela...IF they enforce the passport system..then fine...it will be dealt with..and Europe will ALSO have to meet that requirement which they are currently NOT doing.

    The EU is in such disarray that Holland, Germandy, Switzerland, France and several others are considering opting out.

    The test that hopefully will be ready..will be able to test LIVE animals for traces.

    Don't read too much into the EU huffing and puffing.

    Food prices are so very high..and if they eliminate another source of reasonable food that is nutrion based..their populace will not be very happy...and they do tend to have million people marches that bring down governments.

    READ the European reports again. ANIMAL RIGHTS activist s stated the meat COULD have drugs in it. I think I read where there was ONE test that showed positive and the rest did not...that objection was mislabelling. Read the articles..they state the concern was the meat MIGHT have been exposed...but the meat wasn't even from Canada or Mexico.....

    Check phillipines, china malaysia, vietnam cambodia and on and on and on. They do NOT ban bute. Period. Since when is Japan the ONLY consumer in Asia...

    And..as for Japan....having been there numerous times...have you ever heard of Blow Fish?. It is a niche food..delicacy..that if not prepared correctly, the poison from the fish KILLS the diner.

    It has been illegal for years and years and years. No one enforces it.

    Now..back to the feedlot. They can kill the horses...test for bute..and NOT ship if they test postiive. No problem They will adapt to the market requirements.

    What is YOUR solution to slaughter Angela?



  13. #93
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    I was wondering the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    What on earth would USEF have to do with our food supply?



  14. #94
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    You do know "holland" is not a country right?



  15. #95
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    This is actually becoming more so at the moment. Food issues are becoming more political. Since we have an overabundance of food in most of the world, they are finding ever more ways to cut costs including safety.

    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    And there you go again with another snide remark. I guess you can't see it when you're doing it.

    That was not a basic explanation. That was Bluey's world as she sees it, not as it exists. Cattle, chickens, pigs, etc organizations are there to make sure their members can operate with as few regulations and oversight as possible whether it keeps the food supply safe or not.



  16. #96
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    Does anyone else see the irony in this statement about bias??? Really Bluey??
    Isn't this exactly what you complain about with Anti-slaughter reports. You can't have it both ways. OY

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    What does being biased or not have to do with explaining the truth about the HSUS?

    After all that has been presented, all you have to say is that you think the source, in your opinion, is biased.

    Too bad you can't deny that all that is true, is it.


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  17. #97
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    There have been so many alternatives listed time after time - remember all the UC studies previously posted?? Of course not - you really don't want to hear an alternative solution - you only have 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Don't count on Angela to give solutions. She demands proof...answers ... and yet..provides outdated material to support her opinions..usually the info is 10 years OR MORE in age.. from what I have been told about her European posting..it is very indicative of her Animal Rights status.

    Ask her...she has no solutions.


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  18. #98
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    Um gee uh yea. Thanks


    Quote Originally Posted by Capall View Post
    You do know "holland" is not a country right?



  19. #99
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    The EU may very well have been huffing and puffing back when the deemed the Passports necessary... but now, after the 'beef that was horse' and the 'horse that had bute in it' and the widespread media coverage of that issue... they can't follow through with simple lip service.

    Again re: the Asian countries... g'head, convince yourself that they won't care about the drugs. Oviously, I was not suggesting Japan was the only Asian country [see how little you know about me? Don't even know my connection to Asia!],... HOWEVER, the ONLY verifiable, source linked information re:imports and drugs offered was by me, on Japan, cause that was what I could find.
    I would LOVE to see your sources for information on the other Asian countries [or heck ANY countries'] policies on substances permitted in imports for human consumption. Please post those for us all to learn more!

    And a test for bute will do what? A horse at a feedlot that the plant has fed for however long they are there to clear other drugs and to get their test results back who fail the bute test will go where? Cause after they have fed them for whatever short amount of time they will be willing to discard that horse without any return? Doubtful. This is capitalism after all.

    And what about the plethora of OTHER drugs on that 'no-no' list?
    Will they test for those? And they will test them to what level/who's standard? The EUs? Japans? NZ? US?

    Would I guess that bute was the most used/found drug when tested? Probably.
    But the other drugs also matter and I don't think that now that consumers are aware of the drugs being potentially in there... that they going to turn a blind eye and just eat it. I guess we'll see.


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  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    First of all, the question was for Bluey, who is the most paranoid of all of you who support slaughter. She posts time and again that if slaughter in the U.S. is made illegal, the next step will be to take away our rights to having horses and riding, driving, them etc. I keep asking her for proof they have the power to do this, and she's not answering the question, and you, Leo have answered it in a round about way without providing the EVIDENCE I asked for, just like Angela Freda posted.

    :
    might start with the USDA 2012 Census of Agriculture... says right on the front of the package "Your Response is Require By Law" " Return within 10 days"

    I have been put on their hit list for formerly protesting the Animal ID Act



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