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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2008
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    Default Neue schule verbinden bit legal for USDF dressage?

    A friend and I both bought neue schule verbindend bits this past fall at Dressage at Devon and we both like them very much. It is a french link type of snaffle, not a curb. We are using them in place of our former KK Ultra French links. Today, my friend was speaking with a prominent USDF TD and the TD said she was pretty sure this bit did not look legal because it looked like it had too high a port. We looked at the USDF specifications which said the rise can not be more than 30mm. We will measure the bit, but are concerned that 1) the bit is stamped "dressage legal" (but given that it is marketed in the UK, perhaps they have different rules over there) and 2) we want to have this bit passed in advance of schooling and paying for recognized shows this spring. Does anyone use this bit in competition (we compete first/second level). I have poured over the USDF site and it appears there is room for a variance of opinion, given that a well known TD is concerned about this. I would imagine that the creator of this bit has done her homework on the American market. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. We intend to call USDF and get chapter and verse on the actual bit, lest we have that sinking experience in the warm-up of being illegal.
    Last edited by Iberiansyes; Mar. 7, 2013 at 09:43 PM. Reason: clarity



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun. 13, 2001
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    usa
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    Default

    Call the usEf...they make the rules (and pix of legal bits) are in the usef.org rules.
    I.D.E.A. yoda



  3. #3
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    Default

    Interesting, but it's not a port bit, is it? Doesn't it lie flat, horizontal, on the tongue rather than perpendicular to the palate?



  4. #4
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    Aug. 1, 2012
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    29

    Default

    I have my warmblood in it and it has made a huge difference I emailed the USEF before purchase with links, they replied it was legal. However I recommend emailing them to have proof for shows just in case. I was told to use the email as proof in case anyone gave me trouble. According to USDF rules which they show in their docs the bit can be slightly curved if that's the right phrasing? Up to a certain measurement which this bit meets.

    Per USEF,
    "The NS Verbindend Loose Ring Snaffle is a legal bit for Dressage Competitions. Please let me know if you have any other questions.". 2/14/2012 from the dir of dressage programs
    Last edited by Somatique; Mar. 7, 2013 at 09:04 PM. Reason: More info



  5. #5
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    Nokesville, VA
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    Default

    The USEF (NOT USDF) has the final word on rules and bit legal status, so check with them.

    You also might want to check this booklet

    http://www.usef.org/documents/FormsP...entBooklet.pdf
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  6. #6
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    Jul. 16, 2008
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    Central US
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    Default

    Thanks. I will do that. No, the bit does not technically have a "port," but is curved. Here is a picture of it.

    http://nsbits.com/global/index.php/verbindend.html



  7. #7
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    May. 10, 2001
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    Alberta
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    Default

    Dressage Canada has recently ruled this bit illegal for use in competition. This is despite the bit being legal with the FEI, in the US, UK and elsewhere..



  8. #8
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    Default

    This brings out a question.... In the case where TD is adamant that your bit is illegal and wants to eliminate you but you are 110% sure that it is legal, even have the most current rule book with you to prove that you are right, which the TD refuses to look, what do you do?

    The bit in question is the Myler Comfort Snaffle, not Neue schule verbinden but the same thing can also happen. What causes the confusion is the rolling barrel present in the Myler Cofort Snaffle. I know you can protest if you do get wrongfully eliminated, but you have to pay something like $300 after you get eliminated?



  9. #9
    Join Date
    May. 18, 2009
    Location
    Montreal
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaM View Post
    Dressage Canada has recently ruled this bit illegal for use in competition. This is despite the bit being legal with the FEI, in the US, UK and elsewhere..
    That is unfortunate. I showed in that bit all last season. Do you have a link to the new ruling?



  10. #10
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    Unfortunately, I don't have a link, I do have e-mails received from the Rules Committee confirming that they do not consider this bit legal under the rules.



  11. #11
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    Mar. 8, 2009
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    Montreal, Qc
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaM View Post
    Unfortunately, I don't have a link, I do have e-mails received from the Rules Committee confirming that they do not consider this bit legal under the rules.
    I'd like to see that email too.

    According to our canadian rules, 'ergonomic' bits are legal and this one is just that.
    This is not a port bit at all. A friend of mine competed with a similar bit last year without any problem. (She has the single jointed version but it is as curved as this one)


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 1999
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    Someplace Wet
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    http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2013/08-DR.pdf

    the rolling barrel ( bushing) is specifically mentioned in the rules and they are legal

    what makes some of these bits illegal is being 30 mm+ in relief
    contour. This is illustrated
    _\\\\]
    -- * > hoopoe

    www.meanderingwa.blogspot.com



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoopoe View Post
    http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2013/08-DR.pdf

    the rolling barrel ( bushing) is specifically mentioned in the rules and they are legal

    what makes some of these bits illegal is being 30 mm+ in relief
    contour. This is illustrated
    I know - and that was what made it so frustrating. I was dead certain that the bit was legal, while he maintained his opinion. The bit in question was a Myler comfort snaffle like this one ( http://www.doversaddlery.com/myler-c...FQpN4Aodvg8AXQ )but with eggbutt cheek piece which is shaped but does not have tongue relief (no deviation), so the 30mm rule does not apply. He then implied that the reason I have never been eliminated was because I was lucky and nobody called me out yet.

    While discussing, he specifically mentioned it was brought up in some kind of "clinic" that this particular bit (with the rolling barrel) was illegal. He eventually decided to give me a "pass" (even though I didn't need it) but that brings out my concern... as if, if I were eliminated because TD did not know the rule, what then? With the rule changes so frequently, I'd imagine this kind of things is not exactly novelty.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 28, 2012
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    Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by alibi_18 View Post
    I'd like to see that email too.

    According to our canadian rules, 'ergonomic' bits are legal and this one is just that.
    This is not a port bit at all. A friend of mine competed with a similar bit last year without any problem. (She has the single jointed version but it is as curved as this one)
    I have this bit. I have only been to a schooling show and used my Sprenger. The NS Verbindend is a great bit. Would love to use it at shows. I guess this is something to address with DC.



  15. #15
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    Oct. 2, 2002
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    Ok, here is a good one; Baucher Mullen Mouth Snaffle. They appear to be legal if you combined the Baucher Cheek and Rein Attachment and the Mullen mouth piece . I see that Mylar can also make a very similar combination with the less than 30mm port mouthpiece.
    Like this one: http://www.horsebithire.com/product_...1248164442.jpg
    Or a solid mouthpiece.

    These bits are quite difficult to find.
    Elaine Ward



  16. #16
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    Gloria this rule has been around allowing this bit for some time. For a while there was some confusion about the bushing. Did you fill out a form evaluation at the show for the judge and td? That is where you can give some feedback about judges and TDS and there is no charge.


    Having a copy ( printout) of the CURRENT rule book section is certainly advised for anyone who wants to get into showing.
    _\\\\]
    -- * > hoopoe

    www.meanderingwa.blogspot.com



  17. #17
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    I should have filled out the form, but I didn't... Was so wrapped up in the shows that I forgot... Thank you for the suggestion of carrying a current rule book. Never thought I needed it, but that is certainly a good precaution. As a matter of fact, I'm going to print that out, and HIGHLIGHT it.



  18. #18
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    When we say "this bit" in this thread, can we be more specific? The thread is about the neue schule and people are also talking about a totally different bit, a Myler comfort. I had a TD, Camile Kopchik, verify that the neue schule was legal. I did not ask about the Myler.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
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    Oop that is my fault. It appears that the neue schule is legal in some country and illegal in other, and that brings up a question I had, as, what happens if TD disagrees or misinterprets the rule. This might happen to anyone if there are confusions. That was what happened to me. I was using a Myler Comfort snaffle, which was illegal years ago but has been legal for the past few year. I was adamant that the Myler Comfort snaffle was legal while the TD was adamant that it was not. As you can imagine, there were quite a bit of tensions during the conversation. I never had this problem before and I have been showing rated in this bit for years. This is a first. As hoopoe pointed out, it is a good practice to have the most current rule book with you so if TD is giving you grief, you can point out the rule immediately to him/her.
    Last edited by Gloria; May. 14, 2013 at 02:06 PM.



  20. #20
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    Sep. 13, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by alibi_18 View Post
    I'd like to see that email too.

    According to our canadian rules, 'ergonomic' bits are legal and this one is just that.
    This is not a port bit at all. A friend of mine competed with a similar bit last year without any problem. (She has the single jointed version but it is as curved as this one)
    Just got an email from Dressage Canada, the verbindend is not legal this year. They will accept it if it is on the FEI list . It is not yet.
    I competed in it last year and it is sold in some Canadian tack shops as dressage legal, which is quite misleading! Guess I now have to invest in a new snaffle



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