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  1. #41
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    No problem resomething. I tried to put it in hunter terms to help some since you said you came from hunter land. Yes the terminology can get con fussing at times and sometimes is used wrong in a way. I learn more almost every ride from my trainer and I love it.
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole



  2. #42
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    Don't be too hard on, angel.

    The horse's poll is rarely the highest point and he walks through many transitions.
    He has that Donnerhall quality through the bridle and back.

    Not my type of ride.
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.



  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabicon View Post
    No problem resomething. I tried to put it in hunter terms to help some since you said you came from hunter land. Yes the terminology can get con fussing at times and sometimes is used wrong in a way. I learn more almost every ride from my trainer and I love it.
    My background is actually a real hodge podge. Hunterland has been just a part of the journey, but I am always looking for ways to learn, and grow, and make the horses I ride happy.
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhwr View Post
    Don't be too hard on, angel.
    It is the comments about the riding that people find objectionable. Seriously, somebody should write a letter to the FEI about what a horrible rider Helen L. is!
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller


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  5. #45
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    I am a lot like you then. I am a hodge podge also lol. Even barrel racing.

    I have to ask angel a question though, if the horse is on the forehand how do you explain the sit in the piaffe or the nice pirouettes? A horse on the forehand is not going to make a nice impression in these movements and I thought they were pretty nice.
    The poll maybe low but I see that a lot now in upper level and lower level horse as the poll is breaking not at the highest point.
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReSomething View Post
    Explain?
    I was told when I left my dressage oriented instructor that I was "flirting" with contact, almost had it. Off to H/J land and no feedback at all re contact, then to SS. I understand, but I don't understand.
    I think Rabicon did a great job already, but I guess what I'm referring to is the fact that in dressage we seek a following contact as a foundational step in training... this means that our connection between the horse's mouth and our hands is an organic one, and not fixed. Also, as training progresses we seek extremes of adjustability paired with advanced self-carriage... the sheer complexity of all the dressage principles in combination with each other, while carrying out the movements of advanced tests, results in that organic contact being necessarily "busier" in order to maintain everything in balance. I'm not sure I'm articulating this well... anyone feel free to jump in here and help if inclined!

    In an ideal world, that business is concealed by near-invisible hand and finger movements, but the degree to which this actually occurs probably shouldn't be held up against hand-movement in much less technically complex (that's not to say easy) disciplines.
    Proud COTH lurker since 2001.



  7. #47
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    I think the OP doesn't know what riding dressage is about. Every step requires communication from rider t horse, the op doesn't understand what dressage requires, clearly.

    that rider is beautiful. If you look closely at her hands, you can see the intricate signals she is using. Dressage horses are accepting and in contact with the bit, and the saddlebreds are avoiding contact with horrendous bits.
    Trainer's website - photos of my horse Airborne under About and Francesca Edwards also in media page 1

    http://www.patricianorciadressage.com/


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  8. #48
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    Just because a low poll is "seen a lot" doesn't make it correct or even worthy of an 86%+.
    The horse doesn't really sit all that much. It does look a bit on the forehand to me.

    That is one of the reasons that it is not my type of ride.
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.



  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhwr View Post
    Just because a low poll is "seen a lot" doesn't make it correct or even worthy of an 86%+.
    The horse doesn't really sit all that much. It does look a bit on the forehand to me.

    That is one of the reasons that it is not my type of ride.
    Don't worry, I'm sure you'll never get to ride such type of horse.



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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhwr View Post

    The horse's poll is rarely the highest point and he walks through many transitions.
    What do you mean? Please point out one or two of these "walk-through" transitions with the movement and approximate time stamp.

    The only error I can find is a break in stride (one trot step) after the first pirouette (4:33).


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  11. #51
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    Actually I have ridden a few Donnerhall offspring. For as much as he was used, you'd think there'd be more of them in the international ring. They tend to set their jaws and sacrum, it is a fairly common trait among the ones I have sat on. That makes them tough to get really through, looks like what is going on here.

    As I said, not my type, but there are plenty who find it pleasing. Different strokes
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.



  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaisieMae View Post
    I cannot believe that anyone here is critiquing Helen Langehanenburg's use of the hand in her ride. Really?
    How many international quality FEI horses have you ridden?
    I would love to be able to ride even a little bit like she does. Sheesh! You guys are harsh!
    FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE! Shakeytails - who comes from an entirely different equine background - asked a QUESTION! She arrived at this lofty forum and dared enter its hallowed halls because she was under the impression that dressage strove for quiet, unobtrusive, invisible even aides. She ADMITS she's not a dressage expert and probably wouldn't be able to ride one leg of an FEI horse doing FEI things. Then again, it might be interesting to watch a DQ try to ride a gaited horse. I know it was the hardest thing I ever tried to do.

    We wonder why people think dressage is a bit elitist? Where's the head-banging smiley?
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  13. #53
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    No one's irritated with the OP, knowing she's from a SS and ASB background, she doesn't know what she's seeing.

    There is a general sense of OH COME ON directed at angel. NHWR, we need to see you riding as well or better too please. I'm sick to death of 'well that's just not good enough' from anyone that cannot ride.


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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhwr View Post
    Actually I have ridden a few Donnerhall offspring. For as much as he was used, you'd think there'd be more of them in the international ring. They tend to set their jaws and sacrum, it is a fairly common trait among the ones I have sat on. That makes them tough to get really through, looks like what is going on here.

    As I said, not my type, but there are plenty who find it pleasing. Different strokes
    Probably because not a lot of riders can succesfully ride at that level?



  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by katarine View Post
    No one's irritated with the OP, knowing she's from a SS and ASB background, she doesn't know what she's seeing.

    There is a general sense of OH COME ON directed at angel. NHWR, we need to see you riding as well or better too please. I'm sick to death of 'well that's just not good enough' from anyone that cannot ride.
    I thought it was a rather good discussion about contact and hand position in saddleseat vs. dressage. And then the railbirds (pollbirds? ) arrived and started chipping ...

    ETA -- I really don't have any problems with people preferring one type of ride over another. In the last Olympics, there was a sharp contrast (IMO) between the styles of the gold and silver medalists. Both very accomplished riders on incredible horses. Two very different kinds of rides.
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccoronios View Post
    FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE! Shakeytails - who comes from an entirely different equine background - asked a QUESTION! She arrived at this lofty forum and dared enter its hallowed halls because she was under the impression that dressage strove for quiet, unobtrusive, invisible even aides. She ADMITS she's not a dressage expert and probably wouldn't be able to ride one leg of an FEI horse doing FEI things. Then again, it might be interesting to watch a DQ try to ride a gaited horse. I know it was the hardest thing I ever tried to do.

    We wonder why people think dressage is a bit elitist? Where's the head-banging smiley?
    Perhaps you should read her post again. It IS full of censure and snobby attitude, and that from a person who obviously knows nothing about dressage or contact, is offensive. That post is not from a person who comes here to seek knowledge or raise a genuine question. It is a person who comes here to tell all the dressage queens how "busy" a top rider's hands are in comparison with how quiet her saddle seat riding hands are and how sensitive her 3 years old colt is. Maybe she does not know there are dressage queens here who do know how a common saddlebred is ridden.

    By the way, when will people quit riding the horse' head, or rather, quit judging a ride by the head, and seek true collection?


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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhwr View Post
    Just because a low poll is "seen a lot" doesn't make it correct or even worthy of an 86%+.
    The horse doesn't really sit all that much. It does look a bit on the forehand to me.

    That is one of the reasons that it is not my type of ride.

    But see dressage is so much more than just breaking at the poll. The nice, fluid test that had nice movements and engagement make up the score not omg the horse is 2 vertebrae past his poll deduct 20 points. That's not how it is. I also believe that conformation of horses sometimes makes it easier on a horse not to break at the poll and be a little lower. The horse is not btv not touching his chin to his chest. His head carriage is pleasing for where he holds it naturally and he is oushing into it. She does not have a restricting hand that is forcing it there that just maybe his comfort zone.
    I alo see a relaxed horse, through the neck and his mouth as he is chewing the bit a lot. I don't see this tenseness you see. I am not an international rider, those funds are just not there lol. I have lots to work on as an ammie and I'd gladly post photos, which I have in the past, to prove where I am. And that's no far lol but I have trained enough and read enough over the years and scribe to see a lot of what is there and I'd say this horse has it there. Then maybe we should see some video or photos of you on the donnerhall horses so we can compare and maybe see where your coming from. Idk

    To the original OP I have not a bad word to say. I think it's great she asked and wanted to further understand why.
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole



  18. #58
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    For me good riding is like pornography -I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


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  19. #59
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    Donnerhalls in international sport? I don't have the time, but someone please do count the number of "d" horses in this last Olympics?


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  20. #60
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    How about comparing Helen Langehanenburg with Carl Hester? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfZxO1K7zbI

    IMO Hester presents a softer, more relaxed picture even though the horse is not always cooperating. His hands do move, but they are always soft.



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