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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devon'sGirl26 View Post
    hahaha is that so?
    So CAFOs/factory farms are just a figment of everyone's imagination? I've heard a lot of ludicrous things about agriculture but this one by far takes the cake.
    So tell me then, what is the definition of a "factory farm"?

    The term is a derogatory one used to defame animal agriculture.

    You (obviously) know nothing of agriculture and so your impressions of such are based on the poorly managed few that make the news.

    Consider this: What if the public was basing their impressions of the horse industry on the actions of the Big Lick people? What if they were using said impressions to crusade against all use of horses? Would that be at all logical?

    No, no it wouldn't.
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    5 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
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    My in-laws have had a CAFO pork farm for the last 18 years. I worked in it for 10 years when we lived there. The pigs were kept inside in pens ( sounds like horses in stalls) they had food available 24/7 as well as water. The barns were kept cool in summer with fans and drop down curtains for fresh air and sunshine and heated with propane heaters in winter. They are vaccinated for illnesses and are treated medically if one gets sick. A pig from birth to butcher is 5-8 months.

    If that is inhumane than a big percentage of horses are abused as well. They are kept in stalls or pens for a lifetime .


    6 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
    So tell me then, what is the definition of a "factory farm"?

    The term is a derogatory one used to defame animal agriculture.

    You (obviously) know nothing of agriculture and so your impressions of such are based on the poorly managed few that make the news.

    Consider this: What if the public was basing their impressions of the horse industry on the actions of the Big Lick people? What if they were using said impressions to crusade against all use of horses? Would that be at all logical?

    No, no it wouldn't.
    The common definition of a factory farm is a large scale, industrial operation in which animals are raised in confinement. You can't deny that we have an awful lot of those in the U.S.

    You (obviously) know nothing about me and are making assumptions.

    I'm not basing my impression of animal ag off the actions of a small minority. Last time I checked the majority of animal products come from factory farms.
    Proud owner of Finger Lakes' Finest Devilshire.



  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
    From the New York Times yesterday. They don't want to bother with retiring these guys who have served them:

    "Conversely, R-CALF USA, an organization representing about 5,000 family cattle ranching operations, has filed a brief supporting Valley Meat’s legal case. Bill Bullard, its chief executive, said his members needed horse slaughtering facilities to humanely dispose of the horses they used in their businesses once they became old or incapacitated."

    The problem is overbreeding, so let's address the problem! Wake up folks. If you let horse slaughter become a commercial industry, it will grow for profit at the expense of ethics, just like so many other commercial industries. It is going to increase the number of horses available for meat, not decrease it.
    You are not really making sense here.
    Ranchers using horses until they are not usable anymore does not equal over breeding.
    Well, unless the fact that having a horse available to use when needed because an old horse is not usable anymore equals over breeding. I would assume someone with logical thinking would realize that the rancher needs a sound horse to do their job and riding a lame horse is not overly nice.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
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    Factory farm noun
    Definition of FACTORY FARM

    : a large industrialized farm; especially : a farm on which large numbers of livestock are raised indoors in conditions intended to maximize production at minimal cost
    — factory farming noun
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Factory farm noun
    Definition of FACTORY FARM

    : a large industrialized farm; especially : a farm on which large numbers of livestock are raised indoors in conditions intended to maximize production at minimal cost
    — factory farming noun
    So if you raise a large number of animals inside but do not minimize cost it is not factory farming?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
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    tothe9s, You didn't like the direction of the other thread, so you have started a new one. You and your rara crowd have no alternatives to horse slaughter. You post catchphrases from your rara handbook, hoping to sway opinion. But your wish that everyone eat veggies and nobody own animals is childish at best.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    The plants would be a help. Rather than throw some old gelding out into a pasture and then check up on him next Spring is cruel in my opinion. Maybe he made it, maybe he didn't, probably not. While I'm not a fan of my eating horse meat, sending old Dobbin to the plant is infinitely better than 'letting nature take its course'.
    GR24's Musing #18 - More a reminder than a muse, on the first of the month, do your boob check for any lumps or differences.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devon'sGirl26 View Post
    The common definition of a factory farm is a large scale, industrial operation in which animals are raised in confinement. You can't deny that we have an awful lot of those in the U.S.

    You (obviously) know nothing about me and are making assumptions.

    I'm not basing my impression of animal ag off the actions of a small minority. Last time I checked the majority of animal products come from factory farms.
    But wait, this thread was started with someone horrified that the FAMILY RANCHES wanted slaughter as a market for the animals that couldn't be used on the ranch anymore, yet now we are complaining about factory farms?

    ....... but aren't people usually complaining about the evil factory farms putting the family ranches (who are evil for wanting to slaughter their horses) out of business.... which would mean we're now complaining about putting evil horse slaughterers out of business.....dang.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    So if you raise a large number of animals inside but do not minimize cost it is not factory farming?
    Just quoting Merriam Webster.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  11. #31
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    The OP and her brethren wish to do to the horse industry the same thing they did to the chicken/egg industry in California. Annihilate it. As usual, we'll be told of the big factory farms, atrocious slaughter facilities, etc. Sooner or later, we'll be shown the links to videos produced by the raras. Funny how they'll take disturbing videos, but won't lift a finger to correct what they feel is a problem. Most of them own no animals. Many are professional 'posters' for hsus who are paid to enter forums and spread lies. Fortunately, many of us have seen through their facades and can see their true agenda.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    I for one would rather see a the over production safety valve of slaughter not be turned off.
    The Denver Broncos went to visit an orphanage. "It's so sad looking into their faces so devoid of hope." Sara aged 6


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    The OP and her brethren wish to do to the horse industry the same thing they did to the chicken/egg industry in California. Annihilate it. As usual, we'll be told of the big factory farms, atrocious slaughter facilities, etc. Sooner or later, we'll be shown the links to videos produced by the raras. Funny how they'll take disturbing videos, but won't lift a finger to correct what they feel is a problem. Most of them own no animals. Many are professional 'posters' for hsus who are paid to enter forums and spread lies. Fortunately, many of us have seen through their facades and can see their true agenda.
    Are you referring to larger crates for the chickens?

    And most everyone on here owns animals...



  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5 View Post
    I for one would rather see a the over production safety valve of slaughter not be turned off.
    Owner can shoot and eat them, shoot and compost, bury, or vet euth and disposal, or donate to vet school, or donate to big cat facility, or donate to fox hunters for the hounds. kind of like what happens to the other 800-900k horses per yr that are owned by responsible owners.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
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    You don't sound as if you own any animals. Your glaring lack of animal husbandry is an embarrassment to your rara buddies. And by the way, egg producers have all left California. The egg industry has been destroyed in that state. Your list of options sounds great, but it is not available in most of the U.S. Vets no longer want to euthanize a horse which is not suffering. Soon, you and your rara friends will have guns removed, so shooting a horse will be out. Once again, just noise, no real alternatives!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Owner can shoot and eat them, shoot and compost, bury, or vet euth and disposal, or donate to vet school, or donate to big cat facility, or donate to fox hunters for the hounds. kind of like what happens to the other 800-900k horses per yr that are owned by responsible owners.
    And legally, they can also take them to the auction and sell them, to a KB, if that is the highest bidder.
    If these "extra" horses were owned by people that would chose to do what you suggest, there wouldn't be an issue. They have proven they either don't want to do your suggestions, or, in some cases, cannot afford to.

    So where do those other 100,000+ horses go?
    Who pays, since those currently selling them to KBs are not going to, and you cannot make them?
    Where do we put them?
    What rescues can afford to absorb them?

    Saying that the owners will just have to step up is a pie-in-the-sky dream; you can't make them do so.
    Plenty are already dumping them wherever they can, kind of like the idiots that dump dogs in the country so they can go home at night and tell themselves that some kind person will take them in..... those are likely the owners who don't want to sell them to slaughter (just like the folks that don't want to take the puppy to the kill shelter so they dump them).

    So what is the solution? Mass euthanasia: who pays for it? Shelter them: where, and who pays for it?
    Show me the money in amounts that can take care of the problem, and a sustainable plan to do so.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    And legally, they can also take them to the auction and sell them, to a KB, if that is the highest bidder.
    If these "extra" horses were owned by people that would chose to do what you suggest, there wouldn't be an issue. They have proven they either don't want to do your suggestions, or, in some cases, cannot afford to.

    So where do those other 100,000+ horses go?
    Who pays, since those currently selling them to KBs are not going to, and you cannot make them?
    Where do we put them?
    What rescues can afford to absorb them?

    Saying that the owners will just have to step up is a pie-in-the-sky dream; you can't make them do so.
    Plenty are already dumping them wherever they can, kind of like the idiots that dump dogs in the country so they can go home at night and tell themselves that some kind person will take them in..... those are likely the owners who don't want to sell them to slaughter (just like the folks that don't want to take the puppy to the kill shelter so they dump them).

    So what is the solution? Mass euthanasia: who pays for it? Shelter them: where, and who pays for it?
    Show me the money in amounts that can take care of the problem, and a sustainable plan to do so.
    What percentage of the people sending to slaughter do you feel are criminals? Because dumping a horse or starving them is illegal. Are you saying that 100% of the owners of horses that go to slaughter are lawbreakers that will dump or starve a horse?



  18. #38
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    Do you suppose that there is any cow, pig, chicken, rabbit, horse, who upon waking up in the morning says to him/her self, "Man! I could be out fishing, shopping, if I wasn't stuck on this Factory Farm!" or do they just hang out eating and making manure?


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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    You don't sound as if you own any animals. Your glaring lack of animal husbandry is an embarrassment to your rara buddies. And by the way, egg producers have all left California. The egg industry has been destroyed in that state. Your list of options sounds great, but it is not available in most of the U.S. Vets no longer want to euthanize a horse which is not suffering. Soon, you and your rara friends will have guns removed, so shooting a horse will be out. Once again, just noise, no real alternatives!
    The egg producers have not left California.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  20. #40
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    My point is this. The cattle industry spokesperson in my OP has said that we nned slaughter because the cattle industry has horses that its members cannot/willnot pay to retire after they are no longer useful. I really doubt this is the real reason. This is disingenuous and not the real reason, any more than the stated reason that slaughter will "cure" the unwanted horse problem. OF COURSE the cattle industry wants slaughter. Another avenue for profit for them.

    Building a commercial enterprise around horses for meat is going to cause more horses to be raised for slaugher not fewer. Do you really think that once a profit can be made, those making the profit are going to put the good of the animals over making more money. Sorry, doesn't happen in our culture.

    Yes, there are too many horses being bred. We need to focus on that. It is a mentality just like other issues of common good. Saying that slaughter is all well and fine and that it is ok to profit from the horse overpopulation problem is not going to solve it.

    For example, I read post after post here from someone who wants to breed a mare and obviously has no clue. Or wants to bred their mare because it is unridable or lame or some other reason than it will make a baby that people will actually want. And no one says "hey, maybe you should not be breeding".

    Another example. Texas promotes over breeding by granting an agricultural tax exemption to horse breeders. So people go buy some crap mare, breed it to a crap stallion, and get their tax exemption. The more acreage they have, the more breeding they do. In effect, Texas is promoting horse overpopulation. There needs to be people speaking up about this.

    If the mentality changed, incentives were reduced, it would not take all that long for the horse population to be more in control.
    Last edited by ToTheNines; Mar. 5, 2013 at 06:24 PM.
    friend of bar.ka



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