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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lori B View Post
    How do any of you know that I hold animal rights beliefs, or am aligned with PETA? Neither are true. I just don't trust people who make money from an activity whose practices are underregulated (slaughter) and even if there are good regs on the books (sometimes), enforcement is haphazard and grossly underfunded.

    Why am I supposed to be involved in damaging anything?

    I say, if meat industry businesses want to be permitted to do what they want, the sunshine has to shine in.

    Such a bunch of presumptuous morons. Because I am critical of slaughter, I am a bombslinging animal rightist criminal. Wow.
    Talk to any inspector and they will tell you that horse slaughter plants, when they were still operating in the USA, were some of the MOST regulated and inspected of all.
    You only have to read the inspector's reports to realize that, they were way more than in any other type of business the USDA has inspectors go by.

    Now, where did you get the idea that slaughter is under-regulated?
    More myths and propaganda.


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  2. #162
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    Think about just one example of one part the horse slaughter process. Just to show the blase attitude of the slaughter supporters who will not admit the ugly aspects of slaughter. I live in Texas and see livestock trucks stuffed with livestock parked all the time in the hot Texas sun in the summertime while the drivers feed their faces in some cool restaurant. These temperatures can kill. Try standing in a crowded metal box in 110+ degree heat on hot pavement. This is just one little example of the way these horses are going to treated that does not seem to bother the pro-slaughter people in the least. And this is just what we see in public. They would not be fighting those cameras on the inside if they had nothing to hide.

    Are you going to tell me it doesn't happen? Or that it is fine for the horses to be handled like this? Can you at least explain this one problem?

    If they would at least say yes it is ugly and painful, but we still think it is a better way to die, they would at least have some credibility.
    friend of bar.ka


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  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
    Think about just one example of one part the horse slaughter process. Just to show the blase attitude of the slaughter supporters who will not admit the ugly aspects of slaughter. I live in Texas and see livestock trucks stuffed with livestock parked all the time in the hot Texas sun in the summertime while the drivers feed their faces in some cool restaurant. These temperatures can kill. Try standing in a crowded metal box in 110+ degree heat on hot pavement. This is just one little example of the way these horses are going to treated that does not seem to bother the pro-slaughter people in the least. And this is just what we see in public. They would not be fighting those cameras on the inside if they had nothing to hide.

    Are you going to tell me it doesn't happen? Or that it is fine for the horses to be handled like this? Can you at least explain this one problem?

    If they would at least say yes it is ugly and painful, but we still think it is a better way to die, they would at least have some credibility.
    If you see a problem, why not ask, call the police?

    Do you want to ban everything you don't like, just because you don't think it is right?
    How about all those horses going to shows, standing in those closed in and so hot trailers while people eat?
    Do you want to ban horse shows, etc.?

    Don't be silly, if something is not right, work to get better regulation.
    We don't ban driving because someone drives drunk, do we?


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  4. #164
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    Yes, I see a problem, that one and many more worse ones associated with horse slaughter. That is why I am against it, so I don't have to call the police or be sickened by what happens behind closed doors.
    friend of bar.ka


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  5. #165
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    The FDA does not list nearly all the pet food/treat recalls.
    Check out www.dogfoodadvisor.com
    You missed the difference. Livestock feed is actually treated very differently than pet food. More regulations regarding livestock feed than pet feed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    I especially loved their story about the two headed alien discovered in Nevada decades after the Roswell "flying ship" crash.

    Lets discuss food....Head Cheese...NOPE...not cheese. It is the meat scraped from the head of the cow and then processed into a pate.

    Fancy Offals...intestines (sheep going into Hagus) and used as a binder for sausage. Heart Valves..used for HUMAN medical procedures .... cat gut...used for stitching as they disolve. Beef anus rings have found their way into "sexual pleasure toys"

    Foods that kill pets...when was the last time you read about a pet food killing pets because of HORSE MEAT or parts included...?????? YOu can't?????? I bet you CAN remember the killing dog and cat food that had WHEAT GLUTIN in it. The year was 2007 . Corn glutin was another killer...NO HORSE MEAT nor HORSE By-products.

    The HSUS claimed there were tens of thousands of cats and dogs that died of renal failure. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration CONFIRMED 14 cases. Vets in the U.S.A. CO"MBINED confirmed fewer than 500 cases with MOST recouperating. (verify by going on line to Food and Drug 2007 and you can read their reports. Americanb Vet Assocation 2007 confirmed the fewer than 500 stats.

    Horse feed. When the food is processed it runs through a series of pipes. The system, when shut down with the bagging of product A is supposed to be FLUSHED before they start the next run. This is the equivalent of about 100 to 200 bags depending on the size of the plant and the number of products.

    Most plants DO NOT FLUSH. They may do a generic brand run after that so that bag receives top quality feed however the reverse occurs. Unless they flush..the poorer quality feed is bagged (mislabeled for sure)

    Feed companies have to be very careful for livestock especially after pork feed runs...there was a case where a farmer thought he was feeding layer mix and it had urea in it and killed 20,000 chickens.

    NO Rara took up the cause even though it was widely broadcast.

    The Rara's are still scrapping the bottom of the barrel. I wonder if there are any banned food products at the bottom of that barrel?



  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
    Yes, I see a problem, that one and many more worse ones associated with horse slaughter. That is why I am against it, so I don't have to call the police or be sickened by what happens behind closed doors.
    Are you also sickened by all the police abuses, the teacher abuses, the priests abuses reported every day in the news and do you then want to ban all police, teachers and priests?


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  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweiners View Post
    Honey, I'm in Arkansas, the home of Tyson's and one of the largest poultry producing states in the country. Tyson's doesn't own any farms. What they do is contract with FAMILY farmers to produce chickens to their specifications. The other poultry producers do they same. They don't actually own the land, buildings, etc. The farmer owns them. The farmer contracts with Tyson's, or Pilgrims or Con Agra and builds the broiler house to their specifications. Tyson's, etc. provide the chicks and the feed. The farmer gets paid a certain amount per pound of broiler produced plus an efficiency bonus based on pounds of chicken produced vs pounds of feed used. Tyson's hog production is different. I believe they contract with hog producers to produce the piglets but at weaning they are sent to Tyson owned feed lots.

    When people who have little to no knowledge about modern American agriculture talk about "corporate" farms, they don't realize that most of them are family corporations. Farm families often incorporate their farm businesses for tax reasons, to limit inheritance taxes, to limit personal liability and for other business reasons. So, yes, they are corporations but they are family owned corporations.
    Your post makes sense and is correct

    The problem with many postingis their lack of knowledge and lack of opportunity to actually travel and see plants or farms.

    They are like the anti carriage crowd. They do not care what they say..just as long as they are saying something that SOUNDS important.

    When I was with PETA the volunteers were only fed (my word) specific pieces of information. Too much info tended to confuse.

    My math example was they are taught 2 plus 2 equals 4.

    You state 5 minus 1 equals 4 and they will argue. NOPE ...you are wrong...and they firmly believe it

    Within Scientology there are individuals called Handlers. PETA has the same and they took the idea from them. The handler may, if enough volunteers become disallusioned give them a new lesson.

    Now the volunteer can say 3 plus 1 equals 4. They do not and will not get into subtraction..that way the volunteer can continue to argue. They do NOT want followers who are informed. This forum is a classic example.

    Key word..FACTORY FARM. Factory farm plus animals equals abuse

    By tomorrow they will have new information and it will be Factory Farms plus Slaughter equals bad. Then it will be Factory Farm plus drugs equals bad.
    Last edited by Fairfax; Mar. 8, 2013 at 01:02 PM.



  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
    SNL, so you are ok with horses being raised and slaughtered like we do with cattle and pigs?

    random, the problem usually stated by slaughter advocates is unwanted horses -- here, the cattle industry is admitting that theirs become "unwanted" because those horses have served their useful purpose.
    Quite frankly, I'm *more* OK with horses being raised for slaughter than pigs being raised for slaughter. Pigs are FAR more intelligent than horses and FAR more affected by the current conditions in the commercial farming industry. Do I want to see horses on feed lots? No, absolutely not, but I want to see rows upon rows of sows pinned to the ground in deplorable conditions even less. The horses can move around, they get sunshine, they live in a heard. The pigs? Yeah, not so much. And if you've ever spent 5 minutes with a pig, you'd know that they are so incredibly attuned to their environment and so desperate for interaction and stimulation. More so than any horse I've ever known; and my guys are extremely friendly and inquisitive.

    IMHO, slaughter is a necessary industry. But what is unnecessary is the way that the majority of this industry is handled in this country. That is why 100% of my meat comes from a local organic farm that only practices the most humane slaughter methods for their cows, pigs, and chickens. And until the day they are slaughtered, all animals are 100% free-range and live wonderful, happy lives. I would not be opposed to horses being raised for meat in precisely the same way; it is far more humane than how many, many horses in this country are currently being treated.
    Nine out of ten times, you'll get it wrong...but it's that tenth time that you get it right that makes all the difference.


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  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    The FDA does not list nearly all the pet food/treat recalls.
    Check out www.dogfoodadvisor.com
    You missed the difference. Livestock feed is actually treated very differently than pet food. More regulations regarding livestock feed than pet feed.
    Wonderful. A self taught pet nutrionalist who is actually a dentist

    This is like Dr. Suzuki who heads the global warming consortium (he does travel in a big bus but buys credits for carbon so that is okay)...anyway he is a Dr. of genetics specialty...the fruit fly.

    HOWEVER....NO HORSE MEAT ....



  10. #170
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    No one has to raise horses for slaughter. There is no money in that while there are 900,000 plus horses. Many breeders culled their herds using slaughter but they were not breeding to produce for slaughter. Show type horses, race horses do not carry the type of meat fat and marbling that cross bred draft horses do. In Europe most of the slaughter horses are warmblood types.


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  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
    Yes, I see a problem, that one and many more worse ones associated with horse slaughter. That is why I am against it, so I don't have to call the police or be sickened by what happens behind closed doors.
    First hand you see a problem...WHERE? You don't have any slaughter plants.

    Recycled urgan legends and RARA pap


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  12. #172
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    Their rating of dog food is, I think, pretty accurate.
    They also list all the pet food/treat recalls immediately, which the FDA site does not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Wonderful. A self taught pet nutrionalist who is actually a dentist

    This is like Dr. Suzuki who heads the global warming consortium (he does travel in a big bus but buys credits for carbon so that is okay)...anyway he is a Dr. of genetics specialty...the fruit fly.

    HOWEVER....NO HORSE MEAT ....



  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
    Think about just one example of one part the horse slaughter process. Just to show the blase attitude of the slaughter supporters who will not admit the ugly aspects of slaughter. I live in Texas and see livestock trucks stuffed with livestock parked all the time in the hot Texas sun in the summertime while the drivers feed their faces in some cool restaurant. These temperatures can kill. Try standing in a crowded metal box in 110+ degree heat on hot pavement. This is just one little example of the way these horses are going to treated that does not seem to bother the pro-slaughter people in the least. And this is just what we see in public. They would not be fighting those cameras on the inside if they had nothing to hide.

    Are you going to tell me it doesn't happen? Or that it is fine for the horses to be handled like this? Can you at least explain this one problem?

    If they would at least say yes it is ugly and painful, but we still think it is a better way to die, they would at least have some credibility.
    Take it up with your legislatures. Are you not aware that truckers have to LOG their hours and they are forced to have down time...That is calculated by their not driving time i.e. why not take meals.

    Maybe tomorrow after your Rara meeting you will have some new facts to present.


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  14. #174
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    I will point out again that the name calling and belittling does nothing to change anyone's mind, it just prevents them from posting and/or reading the thread. If that's your end game plan, fine. However, I suspect you might be winning the battle, but losing the war.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    I will point out again that the name calling and belittling does nothing to change anyone's mind, it just prevents them from posting and/or reading the thread. If that's your end game plan, fine. However, I suspect you might be winning the battle, but losing the war.
    RARA is an acronym....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    RARA is an acronym....
    And so? Your point?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  17. #177
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    Look at it this way. Some people consider their horses pets. They're entitled to think of them anyway they want. They don't want ponykins to go to slaughter. I can see that point of view. That doesn't make them a RARA any more than not wanting their dog to be slaughtered for meat.

    Let's look at another animal in the pet category...dogs. There is lots of dog meat wasted every year in animal shelters. Why don't we set up a dog slaughter factory and ship the meat to Asia?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Look at it this way. Some people consider their horses pets. They're entitled to think of them anyway they want. They don't want ponykins to go to slaughter. I can see that point of view. That doesn't make them a RARA any more than not wanting their dog to be slaughtered for meat.

    Let's look at another animal in the pet category...dogs. There is lots of dog meat wasted every year in animal shelters. Why don't we set up a dog slaughter factory and ship the meat to Asia?
    You are forgetting a little detail here, that we are not taking about YOUR horse, or MY horse, but those that someone else owns.

    Why should other horse owners not do what they decide to do with those horses they can't use, be it give them to a rescue/animal control to euthanize, or sell them to slaughter?

    No matter how we work around this, to have any kind of horse industry there is going to be SOME horses that don't fit for any other uses than one more time thru slaughter.

    Why is it any business of ours to tell the owners of those horses what they can or can't do with them, that is legal and perfectly fine one more use of them, as thru slaughter?

    There are people that think it is sad that so many choose to WASTE all that a dead horse is, but no one is banning doing so, you are free to do that if you so wish.

    Why would anyone want to tell others they can't use SOME horses one more time thru slaughter, as the natural, renewable resource SOME horses can be?

    There is no real name calling here.
    Only if you are on one or the other side, what others say can feel as name calling by what it is said.
    I think we would be surprised what REAL name calling would read.


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  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Look at it this way. Some people consider their horses pets. They're entitled to think of them anyway they want. They don't want ponykins to go to slaughter. I can see that point of view. That doesn't make them a RARA any more than not wanting their dog to be slaughtered for meat
    Let's look at another animal in the pet category...dogs. There is lots of dog meat wasted every year in animal shelters. Why don't we set up a dog slaughter factory and ship the meat to Asia?

    We also euthanize a few hundred thousand a year via barbiturate , gas etc then dump their carcasses in landfills , communal burial plots , rendering facilities. Whats the difference if there was a demand for it why not? They are going to die one way or another.

    "IF" those who are so opposed to horse slaughter want to make a difference they should be focusing on solutions to the cause, affordable euthanasia , affordable vet care , better regulated processing plants on US soil. No matter what one persons personal feelings are there are those that believe horses are livestock and they are going to continue to treat them as such...just like there are those who own a dog and it is a working animal not a house pet. Forcing them to fall in line with someone else s convictions is insanity. You don't want Dobbin to be processed , keep him for life , set up a trust for him , mark out a spot for him to be laid to rest period. What half of these people are worried or aghast about is they want to make sure and control that any horse they've ever had and sold on never ends up there... if you want that sort of control they need to remain your personal property period.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Look at it this way. Some people consider their horses pets. They're entitled to think of them anyway they want. They don't want ponykins to go to slaughter. I can see that point of view. That doesn't make them a RARA any more than not wanting their dog to be slaughtered for meat.

    Let's look at another animal in the pet category...dogs. There is lots of dog meat wasted every year in animal shelters. Why don't we set up a dog slaughter factory and ship the meat to Asia?
    what makes them RARAs is the unwillingness to let other people NOT think of horses as pets.

    Nobody forces them to think any different of their animals than they do.

    But they do need to consider the consequences if they force their POV on the rest of the world: Pets are subject to taxes....lifestock usually is eligible for some sort of tax break on an agricultural level.

    So while you think your horse is a pet, it is not. For good reason.


    But yes, the millions of dogs and cats killed every year, if somebody wants to eat them....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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