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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
    My point is this. The cattle industry spokesperson in my OP has said that we nned slaughter because the cattle industry has horses that its members cannot/willnot pay to retire after they are no longer useful. I really doubt this is the real reason. This is disingenuous and not the real reason, any more than the stated reason that slaughter will "cure" the unwanted horse problem. OF COURSE the cattle industry wants slaughter. Another avenue for profit for them.

    Building a commercial enterprise around horses for meat is going to cause more horses to be raised for slaugher not fewer. Do you really think that once a profit can be made, those making the profit are going to put the good of the animals over making more money. Sorry, doesn't happen in our culture.

    Yes, there are too many horses being bred. We need to focus on that. It is a mentality just like other issues of common good. Saying that slaughter is all well and fine and that it is ok to profit from the horse overpopulation problem is not going to solve it. For example, I read post after post here from someone who wants to breed a mare and obviously has no clue. Or wants to bred their mare because it is unridable or lame or some other reason than it will make a baby that people will actually want. And no one says "hey, maybe you should not be breeding". Get my point?

    Yes, but the question remains -- WHY is having horses commercially raised a bad thing??

    My guess is that it's a bleeding heart situation, not a legitimate safety/business reason.
    To be loved by a horse should fill us with awe, for we hath not deserved it.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    What percentage of the people sending to slaughter do you feel are criminals? Because dumping a horse or starving them is illegal. Are you saying that 100% of the owners of horses that go to slaughter are lawbreakers that will dump or starve a horse?
    Um, did you read what I wrote?

    Those who are currently hauling their horses to the auction obviously aren't the ones dumping them, or sticking them in other people's pastures: they are selling them, usually with the knowledge of where they might go.

    But there is a growing segment of owners who are dumping their horses, as I said, and many of those doing so are the ones who are avoiding the "easy" way of taking them to auction, prefering to "assume" that some nice person will be thrilled to take on another mouth to feed.

    So again, what is the solution?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #43
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    randomequine, what I said. When there is a profit to be made, people tend to put profit first. Hence, crowded conditions, breeding and feeding for weight gain, etc, in other words, factory farming. Not humane. Not right for any animal, and certainly not for horses.
    Rest in peace Claudius, we will miss you.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
    randomequine, what I said. When there is a profit to be made, people tend to put profit first. Hence, crowded conditions, breeding and feeding for weight gain, etc, in other words, factory farming. Not humane. Not right for any animal, and certainly not for horses.
    I gotta say, I work with animal production farmers on a daily basis. Not ONE of them puts their profit before their animals. If an animal needs something, it gets it. Now, they wouldn't do what they do if they didn't turn a profit (that's basic economics, not greed), but they legitimately care for their animals. This goes for hog, cattle, sheep, and poultry producers throughout the midwest.

    The profit margins are often so small that it would be really really stupid for someone to 'be inhumane' -- there are lots of other industries where being a jerk can get them a LOT more money for a LOT less work than animal agriculture.
    To be loved by a horse should fill us with awe, for we hath not deserved it.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
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    Not sure if I believe the comment from the beef industry regarding their approval of HS plants because it gives them a place to dispose of their horses. Slaughter is still viable in other countries. Now thinking the cattle industry is for it because of the new plants that would be built to accomodate both equine and bovine thus reducing their hauling costs I can see. Ranchers run a business, horses dont function on their property then they are either turned out to pasture permanently or other options utilized like being hauled off for auction like the cows.



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
    randomequine, what I said. When there is a profit to be made, people tend to put profit first. Hence, crowded conditions, breeding and feeding for weight gain, etc, in other words, factory farming. Not humane. Not right for any animal, and certainly not for horses.
    To sum it up, you have no idea what you are talking about.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomequine View Post
    Yes, but the question remains -- WHY is having horses commercially raised a bad thing??

    My guess is that it's a bleeding heart situation, not a legitimate safety/business reason.
    Yes it is.. once horses start being raised for their meat to sold in the U.S. they would be reclassified by the USDA and consequently laws that now affect cows, hogs, sheep etc would most likely be applied to horses. As I mentioned on the other discussion currently going - it would mean more record keeping, monitoring of medications, taxes and possibly more.


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  8. #48
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    ToThe Nines- You obviously have no true knowledge of production agriculture. If a production animal does not gain weight, it is of no value to a farmer.

    Most so called "factory farms" are run by families. Families who care very much about the care the animals on their farms receive. Families who work very hard to feed this country.

    I also do not understand what makes a horse different than any other animals that we slaughter. And by the way, slaughter houses are NOT the house of horrors RARAs make them out to be. And I know this first hand as my husband and I produce pigs and help to run a show in which carcasses are judged as well as on the foot classes. We spend one day a year processing those animals in a safe, modern slaughter facility and those animals never know what happens to them.

    Get an education and get your facts straight!


    6 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutter99 View Post
    ToThe Nines- You obviously have no true knowledge of production agriculture. If a production animal does not gain weight, it is of no value to a farmer.

    Most so called "factory farms" are run by families. Families who care very much about the care the animals on their farms receive. Families who work very hard to feed this country.

    I also do not understand what makes a horse different than any other animals that we slaughter. And by the way, slaughter houses are NOT the house of horrors RARAs make them out to be. And I know this first hand as my husband and I produce pigs and help to run a show in which carcasses are judged as well as on the foot classes. We spend one day a year processing those animals in a safe, modern slaughter facility and those animals never know what happens to them.

    Get an education and get your facts straight!
    So were the yard guys beating them with pipes to get to the stunning chute or did they go willingly? Psssst I worked at a pig slaughter plant. If only horses could squeal like pigs.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
    randomequine, what I said. When there is a profit to be made, people tend to put profit first. Hence, crowded conditions, breeding and feeding for weight gain, etc, in other words, factory farming. Not humane. Not right for any animal, and certainly not for horses.
    There is not the market nor money in breeding horses for slaughter. We have all heard about the woman breeding 200 paints and selling the foals for slaughter...if she didn't how was she going to pay her bills....Never happened. There are people who breed too many horses and do use slaughter to cull..they are not breeding for slaughter...they are culling...whether we like it or not...culling needs to be done for any breeding program. People just differ on how they get rid of their culls

    Horse numbers produced are greatly reduced from TB's to Appy's

    Factory farming horses...urban legend.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    So were the yard guys beating them with pipes to get to the stunning chute or did they go willingly? Psssst I worked at a pig slaughter plant. If only horses could squeal like pigs.
    Oh Sunridge...what a life you have lead. You stated on another thread you had NEVER worked at a slaughter plant but you had friends that did.

    You stated you were aware of "death" as both your parents died in a horrific manner..and yet..on TROT...you told wonderful stories about your Dad..and his passing "at home"

    Here on COTH you claimed on one post you didn't have a pot to urinate in..and yet..two days later..when someone stated you shouldn't take the horse..you claimed you were very well off financially.

    Will the REAL Sunridge please stand up.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  12. #52
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    I believe in addition to the inhumane treatment of the horses as they go through, but there are issues with enviromental impact, increase in human to human crime, history of the increase of horse theft with the addition of HS plants just to name a few..


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  13. #53
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    You are once again mistaken. I worked in a pork meat packing plant for 2 years in the 80's. I did not work at horse slaughter plant. [edit]
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Mar. 5, 2013 at 11:01 PM. Reason: profanity


    4 members found this post helpful.

  14. #54
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    Gee I don't think pancreatic cancer or bladder cancer is a great way to go. My Dad spent his last few days in hospice care because I COULD NOT TAKE CARE of him in the last days. [edit]

    So what does that say about you Leo.
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Mar. 5, 2013 at 11:01 PM.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  15. #55
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    So you want to compare todays slaughter plants to the one you worked in in the 80s? I had big hair in the 80s and was a size 6- not so now! The 80s were 30 years ago and these times they are a changin'! Temple Grandin has made huge modifications in many slaughter plants that has made the entire process much better for the animals involved. Plants also educate their employees about best practices and USDA inspectors as well as veterinarians are everywhere.

    Oh, BTW, we've developed this really cool tool called the internet since the 80s as well!

    I was in a plant in October- no need to beat them with pipes! BTW, we use "pipes" here as well. They are made of PVC and it is difficult to do real damage with them. My husband laughs because I have one in our bedroom and at the back door to our house as a means of self defense. I might startle someone with it, but unless I connect with a direct shot to the face, my pipe ain't gonna save me.

    Again, a little education goes a long way!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #56
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    A big thank you to Fairfax for uncovering another rara with so many yarns spun on so many different forums, that she can't keep half of them straight. Even her indignation is insincere. Are all raras becoming unglued because horse slaughter is coming back?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    The OP and her brethren wish to do to the horse industry the same thing they did to the chicken/egg industry in California. Annihilate it. As usual, we'll be told of the big factory farms, atrocious slaughter facilities, etc. Sooner or later, we'll be shown the links to videos produced by the raras. Funny how they'll take disturbing videos, but won't lift a finger to correct what they feel is a problem. Most of them own no animals. Many are professional 'posters' for hsus who are paid to enter forums and spread lies. Fortunately, many of us have seen through their facades and can see their true agenda.
    First we're overzealous lunatics that are upset about nothing and now we don't do enough for our cause. Jeez we really can't win for losing can we? Taking those disturbing videos helps tremendously as it raises awareness and sometimes results in people being prosecuted for animal cruelty. This is preciously why big ag wants to pass ag gag laws. And I doubt being forced to have slightly larger cages eliminated the egg industry in California.

    Why in the world would anyone who owns horses want to destroy the equine industry? Oh that's right because we all work for HSUS! You caught us!
    Let me know when you're done with your fictitious fantasy and ready to discuss reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by tuppysmom View Post
    Do you suppose that there is any cow, pig, chicken, rabbit, horse, who upon waking up in the morning says to him/her self, "Man! I could be out fishing, shopping, if I wasn't stuck on this Factory Farm!" or do they just hang out eating and making manure?
    I think that being in a cage just slightly larger than one's body is psychologically damaging and inhumane. This is a belief that Temple Grandin agrees with. Watch out she's probably a RARA!

    Quote Originally Posted by randomequine View Post
    I gotta say, I work with animal production farmers on a daily basis. Not ONE of them puts their profit before their animals. If an animal needs something, it gets it. Now, they wouldn't do what they do if they didn't turn a profit (that's basic economics, not greed), but they legitimately care for their animals. This goes for hog, cattle, sheep, and poultry producers throughout the midwest.

    The profit margins are often so small that it would be really really stupid for someone to 'be inhumane' -- there are lots of other industries where being a jerk can get them a LOT more money for a LOT less work than animal agriculture.
    Really? So if an animal needs veterinary care but the vet care costs more than the animal is worth they'll give it to them anyways? And if a piglet isn't growing quickly enough they won't kill it? And they make sure all their animal's psychological needs are met? And they use anesthesia for all medical procedures such as castration, tail clipping, and dehorning? And I'm sure they'd never dream of debeaking their birds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    To sum it up, you have no idea what you are talking about.....
    And how do you figure that? So you're saying that factory farming doesn't result in crowded conditions, breeding and feeding for weight gain, and profit being put first? Hahaha you've GOT to be kidding me!
    Proud owner of Finger Lakes' Finest Devilshire.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  18. #58
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    Cutter99, Temple Grandin has helped tremendously with making slaughter less traumatic for the animals but we still have a long way to go. Due to increased line speeds, the animal's aren't always immediately rendered unconscious and a small amount of them are bled out (or in the case of hogs and chickens, scaled) alive. I believe the USDA currently allows 5% of cattle to be conscious when they enter the bleeding pit. That's thousands of cattle we're talking about.

    And of course poultry receive absolutely no protection under the humane slaughter act which is nothing less than absurd.
    Proud owner of Finger Lakes' Finest Devilshire.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    So were the yard guys beating them with pipes to get to the stunning chute or did they go willingly? Psssst I worked at a pig slaughter plant. If only horses could squeal like pigs.
    Here ya go honey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqYYXswono <-- this is how it really works. Stress in an animal right before slaughter drastically reduces meat quality. It would be absolutely, straight up STUPID to do that -- it means less money. If you'd like more info, please check out www.grandin.com.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devon'sGirl26 View Post
    Cutter99, Temple Grandin has helped tremendously with making slaughter less traumatic for the animals but we still have a long way to go. Due to increased line speeds, the animal's aren't always immediately rendered unconscious and a small amount of them are bled out (or in the case of hogs and chickens, scaled) alive. I believe the USDA currently allows 5% of cattle to be conscious when they enter the bleeding pit. That's thousands of cattle we're talking about.

    And of course poultry receive absolutely no protection under the humane slaughter act which is nothing less than absurd.
    That 5% is not the allowed amount to be conscious when they enter to be exsanguinated, it's the the percentage allowable that need a second stunning/bolt gun shot before being bled. The average. The average, however, is 96%-98% complete insensibility on the first stunning. Typically, the second stun is if the worker is concerned the animal *might* return to sensibility.

    I can't find the info right at the moment, but I'm pretty sure the USDA has a ZERO tolerance policy for sensible animals being bled, limbs removed, etc.
    To be loved by a horse should fill us with awe, for we hath not deserved it.


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  20. #60
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    How many slaughter plants have you been in Devon's Girl? How many production agriculture animals have you yourself cared for? Have you ever castrated a pig or docked its tail? They walk away with no hesitation after.

    I don't know ANYONE in the hog industry who kills piglets because they don't grow fast enough as you say. Around here we fight to save every pig that is born to the extent our pigs never farrow alone.

    Where does you information come from? RARA propaganda?


    5 members found this post helpful.

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