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  1. #1
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    Default Cattle industry comes clean about why it supports horse slaughter

    From the New York Times yesterday. They don't want to bother with retiring these guys who have served them:

    "Conversely, R-CALF USA, an organization representing about 5,000 family cattle ranching operations, has filed a brief supporting Valley Meat’s legal case. Bill Bullard, its chief executive, said his members needed horse slaughtering facilities to humanely dispose of the horses they used in their businesses once they became old or incapacitated."

    The problem is overbreeding, so let's address the problem! Wake up folks. If you let horse slaughter become a commercial industry, it will grow for profit at the expense of ethics, just like so many other commercial industries. It is going to increase the number of horses available for meat, not decrease it.
    friend of bar.ka


    12 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
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    What's wrong with horses being available for meat? Totally serious question. If the process is humane, from beginning to end (yes, I understand that it isn't now, but it could be if we tried...), why are you against the availability of horses for meat?
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    14 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
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    Default

    I'm pretty sure it's not overbreeding if the ranchers actually used the animals.......

    (I know, I know, hyperspecific....but that's the argument OP is making based on the article....)
    To be loved by a horse should fill us with awe, for we hath not deserved it.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
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    SNL, so you are ok with horses being raised and slaughtered like we do with cattle and pigs?

    random, the problem usually stated by slaughter advocates is unwanted horses -- here, the cattle industry is admitting that theirs become "unwanted" because those horses have served their useful purpose.
    friend of bar.ka


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
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    Default

    I think the breakdown in understanding happens when people don't realize how on the edge most ranch families are. Earning $100 versus shooting and burying an old or lame horse, especially when they spend so much time at the auctions selling cattle, well, it helps, I hate to say. We're not talking the big rich cattle farms with income from buying and selling land or profits from other sources. I'm talking about the little guys scraping by. They also send some cows, that they are very attached to, 'down the road' as well. Not a pleasant task, I assure you. I am not in the position where I need to sell horses at auction, but I have shed a tear or two over sending a particular cow. It isn't out of heartlessness.

    That being said, these wealthy AQHA breeders, that happen to own some cattle, well, that's entirely different. They ought not be dumping horses at auction, IMO.


    17 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
    SNL, so you are ok with horses being raised and slaughtered like we do with cattle and pigs?
    Why wouldn't I be? I have no interest in consuming horse meat, but I'm not a big chicken fan either. Doesn't mean I feel the need to dictate what others may or may not eat.

    It's an honest question - what is the difference between eating beef and eating horse? Why is one "wrong" and the other...not?
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    14 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
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    SatrudayNightLive, you are not seeing the issue. It is not eating meat that is the issue here, it is the factory farms and the deplorable conditions in which the animals are raised.
    friend of bar.ka


    5 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
    SatrudayNightLive, you are not seeing the issue. It is not eating meat that is the issue here, it is the factory farms and the deplorable conditions in which the animals are raised.
    Oh, you're one of those. Interesting.

    "Factory farms" aren't a real thing, and deplorable conditions are indicative of a bad farmer, not a bad industry.

    I'm so up-to-here-tired of people ranting on and on and on about the evils of "factory farming" when the closest they've been to a cow is McDonalds. See here: http://www.precisionnutrition.com/cattle-feedlot-visit

    Short anecdote: My barn borders two very busy roads and is extremely visible to passerby. A couple of weeks ago, my horse was turned out in the arena for a few hours. He had a water trough and was quietly napping in the shade when a passerby stopped and screamed at me that "That horse has been out there for hours!!!!" My reaction: "And?" She thought that my having turned my horse out in the arena was abuse. This is because she doesn't know anything about horses. I'm very glad that people who don't know anything about horses aren't allowed to dictate horse care to me.

    I tend to think that cattle people feel the same way about people like you - the uneducated passerby that feels the need to have their say.

    ETA: Wait, what does "factory farming" have to do with your OP? Or my original question, for that matter?
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
    -George Morris


    11 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
    SatrudayNightLive, you are not seeing the issue. It is not eating meat that is the issue here, it is the factory farms and the deplorable conditions in which the animals are raised.
    And you know that is so because ... ?
    More animal rights extremists myths and propaganda, that the gullible swallows so easily after hearing/watching some well edited "documentary".

    That one group doesn't represent but a small number of ranchers, they are a fringe, extreme group.
    They even at times work with the HSUS, that is the sworn enemy of ranchers, when it is to their own interest, like in the lawsuit against the Beef Board.
    How much sense does that make?
    THAT ought to tell you how believable and smart they are.
    There is one of those in all we do in life.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
    SatrudayNightLive, you are not seeing the issue. It is not eating meat that is the issue here, it is the factory farms and the deplorable conditions in which the animals are raised.
    That is strange. I thought the issue at hand was that cattle farmers were sending their old, used up horses to auction rather than retiring them.

    Not all farming operations are "factory farms with deplorable conditions" and frankly, sending the old horses off to slaughter is probably a good business decision and these people are in business to make a living, not to have a field of retirees, whether you agree with their business or not.


    17 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
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    Most animals are not raised in deplorable conditions. Check out some Temple Grandin....heck, even the Peterson Farm Brothers have some videos about it.

    Secondary to that, horse is one of the most nutritious red meats available....even if Americans choose not to eat it, we spend an awful lot of money attempting to feed the hungry within our own country and in others....why not allow them the ability to consume lean protein as well?

    Stop the overbreeding, you're right....but beyond that, why not utilize a horse to the best of our abilities? Especially if it is inspected and goes through the proper channels?
    To be loved by a horse should fill us with awe, for we hath not deserved it.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    ToTheNines, I'm confused as to what your argument is against horse slaughter.. Is it ranchers using the method to dispose of their horses that are no longer of use to them, over breeding of horses in the country in general, or the idea of "factory farms" with poor conditions being used to send to slaughter.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
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    Do we really need TWO horse slaughter threads? Poor Bluey's head is going to start spinning!
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    7 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
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    Default

    I don't see the industry making a statement I see on individual saying " members needed horse slaughtering facilities to humanely dispose of the horses".

    Not every horse is someones pet. I would rather have system in place that provides a humane system of disposal then lets say old Dobbin just being thrust out into a 4000 acre pasture where he may or many not survive a Mid Western winter.

    As per this question:
    SNL, so you are ok with horses being raised and slaughtered like we do with cattle and pigs?


    No issue at all as long as the start to finish was done as humanly as possible.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


    13 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
    From the New York Times yesterday. They don't want to bother with retiring these guys who have served them:

    "Conversely, R-CALF USA, an organization representing about 5,000 family cattle ranching operations, has filed a brief supporting Valley Meat’s legal case. Bill Bullard, its chief executive, said his members needed horse slaughtering facilities to humanely dispose of the horses they used in their businesses once they became old or incapacitated."

    The problem is overbreeding, so let's address the problem! Wake up folks. If you let horse slaughter become a commercial industry, it will grow for profit at the expense of ethics, just like so many other commercial industries. It is going to increase the number of horses available for meat, not decrease it.
    So is it factory farms you are complaining about, or the family ranches? Your quote refers to family ranching operations, yet you then say it is the factory farms and overbreeding that are the issue.


    As far as family farms wanting a market for the horses that cannot continue their jobs instead of retiring them, those horses are tools to them, not pets. The difference between them and an old tractor is you can park the old tractor and it doesn't continue to cost you.
    When you are running a very tight-margined operation, you can't be feeding a herd of horses that don't contribute to the bottom line.

    If that is horrible, then buy the oldies from them at the going rate; problem solved.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Do we really need TWO horse slaughter threads? Poor Bluey's head is going to start spinning!
    Reposting w/quote in the hopes that it will be read, folks will abandon this 2nd thread and hop over to the other one. I am on my way out for more popcorn & would like to only have to keep up with one of these threads...help a sister out, folks...



  17. #17
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    ROFL -- too true!!

    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Do we really need TWO horse slaughter threads? Poor Bluey's head is going to start spinning!



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaturdayNightLive View Post
    Oh, you're one of those. Interesting.

    "Factory farms" aren't a real thing, and deplorable conditions are indicative of a bad farmer, not a bad industry.
    hahaha is that so?
    So CAFOs/factory farms are just a figment of everyone's imagination? I've heard a lot of ludicrous things about agriculture but this one by far takes the cake.
    Proud owner of Finger Lakes' Finest Devilshire.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Do we really need TWO horse slaughter threads? Poor Bluey's head is going to start spinning!
    It's when a thread doesn't seem to be going in the direction that someone wants they try and turn the discussion by starting another thread.

    I am all for censorship of the whole board and end all slaughter threads. The same "stuff" usually gets repeated over and over. It does bring traffic to the board and that is what allows COTH to charge the fees for advertising. It's all about numbers.
    "Have a Coke and a Smile"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
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    Asking for censorship is like asking fo something to be banned.

    I am not the only one who has noticed a general assaut on many forums against slaughter equine,..beef...there were some recent posts again, against pork breeders and whelping pens and against the cruel chicken industry.

    I am hearing rumors about a "new" docudrama from Hollywood supported by Michelle Obama and her buddy..Waynes Wife who operates the HSUS Hollywood office. I have been told Michelle is going to have some opening words about her concerns regarding our respect for ALL animals. Nothing provocative but sometimes it is not what is said..but who says it.

    Nope..I didn't call the President...but I still have a few Hollywood contacts from the Lasma Days.



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