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  1. #1
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    Default Will DressageWorld ever get OTTB or TB shows as HunterWorld is?

    I'd love that.

    I'm old enough to remember when HunterWorld has "affirmative action" divisions for the dumbloods (or at least Non-Thoroughbreds). Now the TB and OTTB is the minority there. That's too bad for so many reasons.

    Even in Dressage World, I'd love to have a great-minded TB as a partner, especially because so much of making a successful show horse is that long term relationship you develop with a horse.

    So is there interest? Hope?
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  2. #2
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    Why does a TB need an "affirmative action" class ? A good horse is a good horse. Pick out a good horse that's suitable and I doubt anyone could tell the difference.
    ... _. ._ .._. .._


    7 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
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    Hmm, I am going to a thoroughbred-specific show in April and there will be dressage there

    But I would love points/ribbons/awards for Thoroughbreds like they have for warmbloods.



  4. #4
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    There's nothing stopping you! RMDS offers year-end awards for several breeds, including TBs. Several of our shows also offer championships or high point awards for individual breeds.

    Check with your own dressage organizations and shows. I'll bet they offer awards programs for TB's, too.

    I haven't heard the unkind appellation "Dumbblood" in ages.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
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    HAHA, my bo used "dumbbood" the other day, she's a warmblood owner herself. However it was in reference to my trainers mare who not only ran herself skinny, but ran her hooves down because there are free range cows that come across the property twice a day. (mind you theyve been there since mid dec!) She's even in with my gelding who could care less about cows. I don't think he knows they exist.



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equibrit View Post
    Why does a TB need an "affirmative action" class ? A good horse is a good horse. Pick out a good horse that's suitable and I doubt anyone could tell the difference.
    It's not affirmative action. More like a breed show celebrating the TB. These shows have been going on for maybe a couple of years as H/J shows, and successfully, too.

    There probably aren't enough TBs around here actually showing to fill a dressage-only show, but I hope dressage is added to the TB shows a la IEL.
    Last edited by Bristol Bay; Mar. 5, 2013 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Stoopid autocorrect to shoes for shows
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    I'm old enough to remember when HunterWorld has "affirmative action" divisions for the dumbloods...
    That's kind of a loaded word for the dressage forum. Just sayin'.
    A helmet saved my life.

    2014 goal: learn to ride like TheHorseProblem, er, a barn rat!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeFigs View Post
    I haven't heard the unkind appellation "Dumbblood" in ages.
    I know! It was a breedist time back in the early 1990s. Maybe we have matured as a society. I bred a DWB for the hunter ring then precisely because I thought folks had really underestimated the value of the WB mind. This horse was ammy friendly from the get-go.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    It's not affirmative action. More like a breed show celebrating the TB. These shoes have been going on for maybe a couple of years as H/J shows, and successfully, too.

    There probably aren't enough TBs around here actually showing to fill a dressage-only show, but I hope dressage is added to the TB shows a la IEL.
    I call it "affirmative action" because in HunterWorld, the WBs at the time didn't have a lot of TB blood in them and (IMO) judges didn't quite know what to do with them. They did some aspects of the hunter's job really well and didn't do other parts like the TB that had set the standard.

    I wonder if that's now true in reverse for DressageWorld. Many TBs will be correct and rideable while being flatter movers than the WBs bred for big gaits.

    When I was a kid, horses were judged against an absolute standard. You could ride the most off-breed grade horse and he was compared to an ideal. IME, that really has changed: Start with a horse with expansive gaits and, whether or not he is superbly trained, you start ahead of the game.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  10. #10
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    but. a well trained horse (or pony!) no matter what the breed - will do well.... the critical thing here is "well trained" and "well ridden" there are also All Breeds awards, and my guess is that there is one for TB's....

    have you been to a dressage show lately?



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    but. a well trained horse (or pony!) no matter what the breed - will do well.... the critical thing here is "well trained" and "well ridden" there are also All Breeds awards, and my guess is that there is one for TB's....

    have you been to a dressage show lately?
    As a matter of fact, I have been to a dressage show lately.

    The horse I leased last year and the discussions I had with my trainer raised this question for me (in part).

    The horse I rode was a hot (ho-ot) and somewhat fried Trakehner. He had an extravagant trot while helped my competitive purposes at lower levels. His canter was nothing to write home about. Had he not had that stunning trot, he would have been the worst of the TB stereotype.

    I was testing him out as a horse I could get my bronze medal on. Everyone told me that if I wanted to do myself a favor, I should find the best mover I could. From there, I could only screw up rather than having to learn to ride and also ride so well that I could improve the gaits of a so-so mover. I was surprised and a little disappointed, since I was hoping to find a discipline that hadn't yet turned into Hunter World's "beauty contest."

    My other inspiration for this thread/interest comes from the TB side of things.

    Unlike in the 1990s, CANTER and similar organizations make is so much easier for OTTBs to get second careers.

    And American racing has turned to sprinters which tend to be smaller and too short-strided for the modern hunter ring.

    But who cares if your OTTB is 15.2 in Dressage World, so long as he has the goods in his body and between his ears? And I do love the Thoroughbred Try.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    i am not sure i understand.... if you want to learn to ride/train dressage well and if you want to have fun at shows and get some medals- a TB would be fine - as there are may TBs out there that do well - you don't need a special TB only dressage event.... as there are awards already in place (all breeds??)

    so i am confused -


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  13. #13
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    There are several dressage shows in this area that offer the TIP awards for best scoring TB. If you look on the TIP page there's a list. Shows can apply for next year.


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    I'd love that.

    I'm old enough to remember when HunterWorld has "affirmative action" divisions for the dumbloods (or at least Non-Thoroughbreds). Now the TB and OTTB is the minority there. That's too bad for so many reasons.

    Even in Dressage World, I'd love to have a great-minded TB as a partner, especially because so much of making a successful show horse is that long term relationship you develop with a horse.

    So is there interest? Hope?
    I was showing hunters in that era where almost all were TB's and the open classes were on the outside course over natural obstacles. I remember the Non-TB division as I had an Appendix that I competed in it. It was a well filled division they had even at the biggest shows.

    I believe that if USEF/USDF offered TB only shows, like they do for Arabs and Morgans, that it just might help get homes for all the unwanted TB's that come off the track.

    It's the rare TB that can compete with the warmbloods these days at shows, and frankly in my area its rare to see any at 3rd and above. Even though there are All-Breed awards, that is not the same as offering TB-Only classes. To be honest, I think the All-Breed awards are overkill and I agree with MBM that we have too many divisions for awards.

    We already can see the rapid growing of the Western Dressage division that just may help QH's, Arabs, etc. get purchased now that there is another venue they may do well.
    The same I believe could be true for TB's if there was a place they could compete on equal turf.



  15. #15
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    Sponsor an award ... the JC isn't going to do it, and that's who is responsible for American Thoroughbred registration.

    You might want to contact the North American Thoroughbred Society at http://www.hellohorse.com/ ... I think they may sponsor a high point award for those horses registered with them. (I haven't been in contact with the organization for several years, so am a bit out of date.)

    Problem I ran into when I asked (on this forum a few years ago) about sponsoring an award is that TBs can be difficult to identify. Not all OTTBs come with their papers and getting them can be challenging. Additionally, there are TBs bred for sport that are NOT JC-registered. ...

    And to add another twist, my young horse is a TB/Hanoverian cross ... I call her "half TB" rather than "half Hanoverian" because that's my bias, but she can only be registered with the AWS because her dam's owner doesn't have papers. I was told the dam was purpose bred for eventing so never JC'd ... and come to think of it, that's how warmblood registries evolved, yes?
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  16. #16
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    Back in those breedist '90s, I think there was something called the Performance Horse Registry. The idea was to track successful TBs and TB blood within show hunters. Again, at the time, Americans had all sorts of TB mares lying around and it served them (as well as European stallion owners) to open their books to us.

    The OTTB are I owned passed inspections with a few WB societies and I did my best to keep her bloodlines known. As a one-mare owner, I did on a small scale what the PHR hoped to do on a large scale. It was a good idea, helping to find and maintain the value of the TBs that contributed to good show horse offspring.

    In any case, I'm so pleased that we are again trying to make it easier for OTTBs to find a second career. Yeah, fewer are being bred, but there still seems to be a big swamp of them to be soaked up after they are done racing.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllWeatherGal View Post
    Sponsor an award ... the JC isn't going to do it, and that's who is responsible for American Thoroughbred registration. ...

    . I was told the dam was purpose bred for eventing so never JC'd ... and come to think of it, that's how warmblood registries evolved, yes?
    Great idea! "Put your money where your mouth is," eh?

    You do have it right with respect to WB societies being committed to selective breeding (producing the 'purpose bred') horse. We like selective breeding here in our "market dominated" US of A, too. But that process takes a long time and a great deal of standardization that we haven't mastered here. Darn tootin' the WB societies keep track of the bloodlines as well. I don't know if European breeders *don't* register some of their lesser stock at all the way cattle breeders do. (IMO, there might be some information in the ratio of registered : non-registered and "invisible" offspring.) I don't think you can contrast a TB not registered with the JC because it was not bred to race with the program of selective breeding that the WB societies do. (I assume your event-bred TB has a certificate of pedigree from someone?)
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  18. #18
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    New Vocations has a charity horse show with hunter jumper and special TB only dressage classes as well as regular dressage. It's a really nice show - even tho I have an Arab, I've gone the last two years because it is such a nice show *and* I haul my friend's OTTB so she can show TB only dressage.

    http://www.horseadoption.com/charity-horse-show/



  19. #19
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    May. 2, 2012
    Location
    AIKEN SC
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    There are many shows that offer JC T.I.P awards.
    The list below is shows that offer PSG awards.


    JC Web site for their show calendar. http://tjctip.com/Default.asp?page=4



    Show Name

    Date

    Location

    Class - Awards

    City

    State

    Website



    Poplar Place Farm March Dressage Show

    3/9/2013

    Poplar Place Farm

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Hamilton

    GA

    visit



    Poplar Place April Dressage Show

    4/20/2013

    Poplar Place Farm

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Hamilton

    GA

    visit



    Dressage at Blue Goose Series

    5/15/2013

    Blue Goose Stable, LLC

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Cochranville

    PA

    visit



    Poplar Place Farm May Dressage Show

    5/18/2013

    Poplar Place Farm

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Hamilton

    GA

    visit



    KDA Spring WarmUp Show

    5/23/2013

    Kentucky Horse Park

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Lexington

    KY

    visit



    Windy Hollow Hunt Dressage June

    6/7/2013

    Sussex County Fair Grounds

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Augusta

    NJ

    visit



    Cooler By The Lake

    6/8/2013

    Bayfield County Fairgrounds

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Iron River

    WI

    visit



    The Tennessean Dressage

    6/9/2013

    Brownland Farm, 1155 Hillsboro Road

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Franklin

    TN

    visit



    Iowa Dressage Classics I and II

    6/15/2013

    Maffitt Lake Equestrian Center

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Cumming

    IA

    visit



    Poplar Place June Dressage Show

    6/15/2013

    Poplar Place Farm

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Hamilton

    GA

    visit



    Dressage at Blue Goose Series

    7/3/2013

    Blue Goose Stable, LLC

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Cochranville

    PA

    visit



    Dressage at the Park

    7/6/2013

    Horse Park of New Jersey

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Allentown

    NJ

    visit



    Windy Hollow Hunt Dressage July

    7/19/2013

    Sussex County Fair Grounds

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Augusta

    NJ

    visit



    Summer Recognized Dressage Show

    7/20/2013

    Bayfield County Fairgrounds

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Iron River

    WI

    visit



    Dressage at Blue Goose Series

    8/7/2013

    Blue Goose Stable, LLC

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Cochranville

    PA

    visit



    Fun in the Sun Schooling Show

    8/10/2013

    Bayfield County Fairgrounds

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Iron River

    WI

    visit



    Dressage at Stone Tavern

    8/30/2013

    Horse Park of New Jersey

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Allentown

    NJ

    visit



    Poplar Place Farm September Dressage Show

    9/7/2013

    Poplar Place Farm

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Hamilton

    GA

    visit



    Fall Classic Schooling Show

    9/14/2013

    Bayfield County Fairgrounds

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Iron River

    WI

    visit



    Horse Shows in the Park Dressage Show

    9/14/2013

    Longwood Farm South

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Ocala

    FL

    visit



    Atlanta Fall National Dressage & Region 3 GAIG/USDF Championships

    10/11/2013

    GA. International Horse Park, 1996 Centennial Olym

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Conyers

    GA

    visit



    KDA Fall Classic 1

    10/12/2013

    Kentucky Horse Park

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Lexington

    KY

    visit



    Poplar Place Farm October Dressage Show

    10/26/2013

    Poplar Place Farm

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Hamilton

    GA

    visit



    Poplar Place Farm November Dressage Show

    11/16/2013

    Poplar Place Farm

    Prix St Georges Dressage High Point Award

    Hamilton

    GA

    visit









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  20. #20
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    Nov. 7, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    (I assume your event-bred TB has a certificate of pedigree from someone?)
    Not that I've found.

    I received her AWS registry papers, but they pretty much take the word of whoever is completing the application as far as I can tell. The papers show her dam as Silk Air out of Woven Air x Peterhof; her sire is Private Dancer (Hanoverian: Evening Lace x Pik Solo).

    I called my girl's breeder who said the mare (her dam) was given to her without papers. I have no idea what to make of it or how to proceed, except to love and enjoy. And since she's registered, if it comes to all-breed awards, at least she's eligible.
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