I totally get the 'her place, her rules' but if you're going to be so concerned about the footing that you feel you have to threaten to fine and expel the offenders, then you probably shouldn't volunteer your facility. I think it's pretty ridiculously worded too. 'Please refrain from allowing horses to urinate in the ring' is much less offensive, and gets the point across just as well. And regardless of the backstory, there's no point to getting huffy at someone for having the audacity to ask a question on something that a lot of us also find odd, poorly worded, or just plain ridiculous.
You couldn't be more off base if you tried. Ever heard, my facility, my rules? Not to mention they already said they weren't bringing the horses so it is a non-issue so why bash her on the internet? By the way, I was there all day yesterday and nobody had any trouble peeing in the ring.
Very true, However if you are inviting other people on to your property being excessively concerned about the damage they "might" do to the point of writing borderline nutter rules then perhaps your private facility should remain private.
"I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"
"I also trap them in a Have-a-Heart and shoot through the bars."
I should resist the urge to jump into the train wreck, but I see this come up all the time: people have the right to do anything as long as it's not illegal on their own property. The question wasn't "does she have the right to do this" but "have you seen this before?" (and the implied question was "what do you think of it?"). So, people who jump in and say "she has the right to make her own rules" are correct, but that wasn't what was asked.
No, I personally have never seen such a rule.
I think it's odd. If she had asked my opinion about the wording (which she didn't ), I would have suggested something like: "We sincerely appreciate your assistance in keeping our facility clean by keeping your horse or pony from urinating in either the outdoor or indoor ring. If your horse or pony is letting you know it needs to relieve itself, please exit these rings immediately. You will not be penalized for interrupting your test. We want to preserve the quality of our footing, so your cooperation is greatly appreciated!!" The line about being asked to leave is unnecessary and provocative. It's a private facility; property owner always has the right to remove someone from their property for whatever reason.
Of course she has the right to charge someone for the privilege of peeing in her ring, but it's an odd concern. What if a kid pukes in the ring -- same deal? I've seen that happen with little kids at shows.
Clearly there is a massive backstory here, and I'm sorry, Laurie, if your friend is suffering. Maybe the OP had an ulterior motive for bringing it to the board for discussion, but the original question(s) were pretty neutral. Have you seen this? (Most said no.) Do you think it's odd? (Most said yes.) I don't see a smear campaign here.
(Timex, I think you just said what I said but more succinctly! )
Last edited by fargaloo; Mar. 4, 2013 at 10:05 AM.
Sorry. If you've got "million dollar" arena footing and you are so concerned about it that you feel the need to impose a $100 fine and kick people off the property for letting a horse/pony urinate, then you've got no business volunteering to host a bunch of Pony Clubbers at your place.
And that last sentence about you being the one doing the ratings sounds like an outright threat directed at huntmeet and her friend and their kids. Very professional.
Originally Posted by Discobold
I don't think I've ever seen a normal horse urinate in an arena. Seriously, people, tell me the last time you did.
In line up during a flat type class at a show. While owners are hanging out talking after/before they ride. While waiting to go in to do a course.
Lots of horses stop to pee when they are offered a chance. If it is something where the young riders will be standing in a group waiting I would not find it strange that a horse would take that break in the action to urinate.
I find Laurie's threats and out burst weird. The OP can be the lowest of the low pony club moms and maybe Laurie hated her before this thread, that does not make the over the top reaction appropriate. The OP's question was reasonable and something I think most people would have asked had they gotten the same poorly written notice.
And for those who feel the riders are not capable of asking their horse to walk off (or perhaps not capable of feeling when their horse is preparing to urinate)
- perhaps you should review the D2 Level Standards
It is simply unreasonable. Try to avoid it yes, Fine and toss out a pony clubber. I would not set foot on her " Million dollar Footing" Outrageous!~~
But the Pony Club could have just leased the facility (this or any other) for testing day & then any cleanup would've been budgeted for, instead it seems an owner offered her (very nice) facility at no cost but with a proviso - there is no obligation to accept the offer if the use conditions are not acceptable.
For those that insist on considering this to be so outrageous, a local pony club was invited to use exactly such a facility & the DC immediately expressed concern about how they would deal with "elimination events" (they had a wonderful experience & owner was already set up for waste removal etc)
Ever ridden a mare in season? Especially when there is a fair amount of standing around, AND interesting new geldings?
Furthermore, while it wasn't "twice an hour", my recently sold 7 yo gelding ALMOST ALWAYS peed at least once every ride.
I guess you missed this part of my assumptions
Originally Posted by alto
(I rather assume that breeding behavior is not what is under discussion ...)
At our PC testing, there is no standing around IN the arena or ON the course (separate "holding" area) - so yet another assumption I made - I believe the OP did indicate that there were grass areas where one could alternately test so those with "urination-prone" horses could ride there ...
Wow. Being a mother I'm kind of shocked and saddened by this whole exchange.
We have politics and drama in the endurance world but I would never take it out on someone's child.Lets try to look at the bigger picture= creating future riders for our sport.
I have to kind of wonder if the DC knew these conditions when he/she accepted the offer, or if they were sprung on them later, after they had accepted and advertised the rating.
Either way, I would venture a guess that the facility owner doesn't have kids. Most of my 4-H kids (same age as younger PC'ers) would be beyond humiliated if they were asked to leave a facility midway through an event because their horse peed in the ring. For a very young rider, that event is embarrassing enough without knowing that now, they're going to be kicked out. I don't think a kid who had that happen could be any more humiliated if they had wet their own pants. And humiliating little kids to that degree is just wrong, whatever the reason.
BO could have thought about the effect having to enforce that rule would have on a young kid and perhaps asked that participants make every effort not to allow this, and even ask them to pay the actual cost of cleanup (or charge the club, up front, a small arena cleaning fee). But to threaten to kick them out, and in the process, humiliate them publicly, is nothing short of cruel. As a shy kid who desperately wanted to do well and please everyone...I know I'd have spent the entire day worrying that this might happen, and being distracted from the testing because of it. Doesn't exactly make for a positive learning experience.
Sure, it's her barn, her rules. But if she's so worried about the footing that she's willing to publicly humiliate a little kid over it, perhaps she should have offered to pay for rental of a local municipal grounds or something if she really wanted to help out the local PC.