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  1. #1
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    Default Sarcoids in horses come from a virus from cows

    I am surrounded by a couple of cattle farms. In the summer there doesnt appear to be any fly control program implemented by the cattle owners. I have now three horses fighting sarcoids. How do I ask my neighbors to institute some type of program when most cattle owners dont have or believe in a fly program?



  2. #2
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    You should probably do better research than you appear to have done already.
    http://www.liv.ac.uk/sarcoids/introduction/whatisit/
    ... _. ._ .._. .._


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by andylover View Post
    I am surrounded by a couple of cattle farms. In the summer there doesnt appear to be any fly control program implemented by the cattle owners. I have now three horses fighting sarcoids. How do I ask my neighbors to institute some type of program when most cattle owners dont have or believe in a fly program?
    You know "that most cattle owners don't have or believe in a fly program" because they have told you so?

    I wonder where you are and what kind of cattle owners you have there?

    Our cattle get fly eartags every spring, along with pour on that last several weeks, plus we have dust bags out, oilers and will round them up and spray for flies as many times as we have to, if we have a bad year.
    Some also use a feed thru product to control flies in the manure.

    Now, if you have some of those that raise "organic" or "natural" or some of those niche type cattle, well, what they do for flies, that will be limited by what their label permits, as some of those fly products are not accepted, not being "natural" by their definition.

    As for horse warts, young horses generally get them, from other horses.
    Older horses rarely get them, they are less susceptible.

    I would run the horse with warts thru your vet and be sure that is what you have there, not some other kind of growth.
    Depending on what you have there, you may be able to do something about it, or if it is plain warts, they generally are self limiting, run their course in a few months.


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  4. #4
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    this "cattle owner" believes in and uses a fly control program.


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equibrit View Post
    You should probably do better research than you appear to have done already.
    http://www.liv.ac.uk/sarcoids/introduction/whatisit/
    Thank you for this link. I have always heard gray horses are more susceptible, but this article discounts that theory.
    "All top hat and no canter". *Graureiter*



  6. #6
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    Very interesting link on sarcoids.

    The cattle and dairy operations near where my horse is boarded seem to have good fly control. The only time I've noticed a temporary increase in flies is when they do major manure re-arranging.



  7. #7
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    I have tried to mention politely about the level of flies to the cattle owners and was told cattle people dont use any type of program. The cows are far from their hous, but close to me. I applaud those who on this posting stated that have a fly program, wish my neighbors were as polite and conscious.



  8. #8
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    I watched dr. pol last night and that is what he said, sarcoids come from flies from cows. True or not, who knows.

    The sarcoid on the horse last night was in such an odd spot. ICK. Big too.

    My mare had one in her ear and one starting in her other ear. I had a vet lazer them out. Gone, and they didn't come back.

    So maybe the cauterizing them with that thingy he was using is a good idea?



  9. #9
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    Use fly spray. Problem solved.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equibrit View Post
    You should probably do better research than you appear to have done already.
    http://www.liv.ac.uk/sarcoids/introduction/whatisit/
    I did
    http://www.ehow.co.uk/about_6573452_...lomavirus.html



  11. #11
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    Interesting...I just did a little reading. They're not entirely sure how it's spread. If I'm reading the latest research they believe mostly by contact and shared food and troughs. They suspect it's spread by flies and quarter horses are twice as likely to have sarcoids as thoroughbreds and there appears to be a genetic susceptibility.

    Younger male horses are more likely to be infected too.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by andylover View Post
    Repeat;

    Quote Originally Posted by Equibrit View Post
    You should probably do better research than you appear to have done already.
    http://www.liv.ac.uk/sarcoids/introduction/whatisit/
    As no vector (flies/stable practices/infected pastures etc. etc,) for BVP has been identified, there is very little reason to blame your neighbours. There is currently, no effective treatment for equine sarcoids, so what is the point in closing the door after the proverbial horse has bolted ? BVP was first identified in bovines - hence the name. Ask yourself where it came from before being found in bovines.

    Another interesting piece;
    http://vir.sgmjournals.org/content/84/5/1055.full

    This is a huge complex subject involving viruses, genetics, heredity, immunology, etc.. etc.. Asserting that your neighbour's cows caused your horses to develop sarcoids is a bit silly.
    Last edited by Equibrit; Mar. 3, 2013 at 01:48 PM.
    ... _. ._ .._. .._


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  13. #13
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    Hint: Ehow is not considered a reliable resource. Try academic resources with research studies.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gestalt View Post
    Thank you for this link. I have always heard gray horses are more susceptible, but this article discounts that theory.
    Are you thinking of melanoma?


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  15. #15
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    Yes, it is widely accepted among the general veterinary community (as well as scientists that are specialized veterinary virologists) that Bovine Papilloma Virus-1 and Bovine Papilloma Virus-2 are the primary causative organisms of equine sarcoids. There are obviously other factors at work (genetics, etc) but many studies have consistently found that BPV-1 and BPV-2 are the causative organism.

    Inoculation of young horses with bovine papillomavirus type 1 virions leads to early infection of PBMCs prior to pseudo-sarcoid formation
    First sentences of the abstract from the above article:
    "Bovine papillomavirus types 1 and 2 (BPV-1 and BPV-2) are known to induce common equine skin tumours, termed sarcoids."
    Abstract at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21715602


    Association of bovine papillomavirus with the equine sarcoid
    Quote from the abstract of the above article:
    "The equine sarcoid, a locally aggressive, fibroblastic skin tumour, is the most common dermatological neoplasm reported in horses; there is no consistently effective therapy. It is widely accepted that bovine papillomavirus (BPV) types 1 and 2 are associated with the pathogenesis of sarcoid disease.
    Abstract at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12692268
    Last edited by future vet; Mar. 3, 2013 at 10:26 PM.


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  16. #16
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    Interesting. My horse first developed a sarcoid when we were out west and he was pastured next to a herd of beef cattle. We treated it unsuccessfully for years once back east, but it continued to grow a little every year. Until...he moved to a retirement field that has 2 beef cattle in it. Now it's gone, 7 years after he originally developed it, and about a year after he moved to the new field. I wonder if a second exposure to the virus re-activated his immune system against it, and he was able to heal it?



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by future vet View Post
    Yes, it is widely accepted among the general veterinary community (as well as scientists that are specialized veterinary virologists) that Bovine Herpes Virus-1 and Bovine Herpesvirus-2 are the primary causative organism of equine sarcoids. There are obviously other factors at work (genetics, etc) but many studies have consistently found that BHV-1 and BHV-2 are the causative organism.

    Inoculation of young horses with bovine papillomavirus type 1 virions leads to early infection of PBMCs prior to pseudo-sarcoid formation
    First sentences of the abstract from the above article:
    "Bovine papillomavirus types 1 and 2 (BPV-1 and BPV-2) are known to induce common equine skin tumours, termed sarcoids."
    Abstract at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21715602


    Association of bovine papillomavirus with the equine sarcoid
    Quote from the abstract of the above article:
    "The equine sarcoid, a locally aggressive, fibroblastic skin tumour, is the most common dermatological neoplasm reported in horses; there is no consistently effective therapy. It is widely accepted that bovine papillomavirus (BPV) types 1 and 2 are associated with the pathogenesis of sarcoid disease.
    Abstract at: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12692268
    So - what is the link between BHV and BVP ?
    ... _. ._ .._. .._



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by andylover View Post
    Honestly, ehow is not the best reference source. Extension, university and other legit sites abound. content farms are NOT legit sources of info. You should note immediately that no citations are offered.



  19. #19
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    Decades ago, we asked our vet about using the cattle wart vaccine on one four year old with a wart like growth under his ear, right where the bridle fits.
    The vet said it was not known to work too well, lets take that out first surgically.
    He did and it never came back.

    Even in cattle, warts are generally in very young just weaned calves, about I would say way less than 1% of them and they run their course and are gone in a few months, just like rarely in very young horses.

    There are years we don't see any from several thousand new cattle, other years we may see one to three maybe that have some.

    According to our vets, that is one group of virus that are in both, horses can cattle and if one is a carrier, it may give it to others of that same species, but only very few may get warts, be it horses or cattle.
    The vets didn't say cattle would give them to horses or horses to cattle, because there is not enough known yet to say.

    The ones getting warts growing are those with less resistant immune system, or stressed.
    We used to have about 40 weanling and yearlings around some years and in many years only had one colt get warts on it's nose, so it is not that common.
    That one four year old came to us from another breeder right before that one wart did show up.

    In reality, there is not that much known about those virus quite yet.



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unfforgettable View Post
    Are you thinking of melanoma?
    Aha!!! Yes, you are correct. Thanks.
    "All top hat and no canter". *Graureiter*



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