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  1. #121
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    Like I said--for me it seems to be more an issue with the rider trying to master these skills-pony seems to have the ability to perform correctly--but we've not tested that in the show ring yet.

    But I can still see where its going to take a pony more strides to cross the arena even in a very good medium/extension than a larger horse.



  2. #122
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    I don't think ponies need separate tests, I'll stand on that until the bitter end, lol! Thanks, PP & exvet, I think my guy is pretty special too, but time will tell. Debuting at 1st level later this month, let's see what the judges think of "pony lengthenings" when out with the big boys. ;-) He is easily working all the 2nd level work with a bit of 1/2 pass, changes will be started soon. I wouldn't take a penny less than what has been stated by you and Honeylips, otherwise I'll just keep him, glad others are on the same page.



  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    there are horses that sell for a gazliion $$ too. But we were talking about (i thought) the ponies that we all are riding and training... and MOST of the ponies we are riding would not fetch 50k

    and i dont know anything about Dune's pony - but my guess is 15 - 20k for a real 2nd level pony.... unless of course it is a super star or well marketed.
    I'll PM you, you'll remember who he is....;-)



  4. #124
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    Dune, is he the one by Donarweiss GGF? If so I have positively drooled over his daddy--so elastic.



  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by honeylips View Post
    yes - but at the USEF Convention the Dressage Committtee has asked USDF Test Writing Committtee to "write pony specific tests. They would not be restricted as to rider age and would be included in USDF Year End Awards and Regional Championships"
    THIS!!!

    Right here is the first step towards creating a market for the younger pony. At least if they raise the "pony" height to include many of the honies shown in this thread.

    Because then you are going to get the population who is drawn to the hony,(older, smaller females who simply are tired of crawling/falling such heights) but always felt there would be a bias in "regular" dressage classes. It stands to reason adults have more disposable income than kids, so if they felt they could truly compete, perhaps they would be more open to buying young stock.

    I've actually thought of showing my mare in the Arab sporthorse thing, as I'm sure she would excel. But they were just getting started back then...and I really can't send all my horses out for training. I took her to a Ray Hunt clinic, then home and out on the trail afew times...then she sits.

    A real waste, but I'm sure she doesn't really care. She hangs out with her mom and bosses the other horses around...



  6. #126
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    Because most ponies do not have a natural medium or extension.

    A lot of times they are manufactured and don't develop until pi/pa are introduced.

    If I had to do a rewrite I'd shorten the lines. It adds degrees of difficulty without sacrificing the exercise.

    Hey Lisa let me know what Monty thinks there's always room for one more in my book!
    Kelly
    It is rare to see a rider who is truly passionate about the horse and his training, taking a profound interest in dressage with self-abnegation, and making this extraordinarily subtle work one of the dominant motivations of his life.\"



  7. #127
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    if they do create special pony tests, i vote for them being open to all under say 15.2



    and Dune - yes I remember him! and he is special.....



  8. #128
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    I don't think we need seperate tests for ponies...but I am a big supporter of a a seperate division. We need to create a place for ponies to shine and this must include AA not just juniors.
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  9. #129
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    I"m not a fan of new tests either but a separate awards/division would be great.
    But I'm pretty sure we have to follow the FEI height rules and they limit dressage ponies to 149cm (14.2 66/100ths hands).

    Equines over 14.3 hands aren't ponies. They are horses and I don't think belong in the same classes with ponies.
    Last edited by honeylips; Mar. 13, 2013 at 01:37 AM.
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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by honeylips View Post

    Equines over 14.3 hands aren't ponies. They are horses and I don't think belong in the same classes with ponies.
    yes they are if they are pony breed. such as my Connemara is a pony - even tho he is 15h. what else could he be?

    eta: 14.3 / 148 cm is an arbitrary line - and sure if someone wants to go the FEI pony route they will need to stay under 148 but no adult can do that anyway... so since we are going to be making our own rules - why not include those ponies that are over 148?



  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    yes they are if they are pony breed. such as my Connemara is a pony - even tho he is 15h. what else could he be?

    eta: 14.3 / 148 cm is an arbitrary line - and sure if someone wants to go the FEI pony route they will need to stay under 148 but no adult can do that anyway... so since we are going to be making our own rules - why not include those ponies that are over 148?
    And why don't we exclude horses who happen to be under 148cm while we are at it....



  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodpony View Post
    Dune, is he the one by Donarweiss GGF? If so I have positively drooled over his daddy--so elastic.
    Yes, he is!! Mine looks like a mini-Donarweiss.... I just wanted to add, the dam was a 13h Section B Welsh pony. I didn't want to give the impression that Donarweiss "throws ponies", I was actually VERY fortunate that mine remained a top of the measure large.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    if they do create special pony tests, i vote for them being open to all under say 15.2



    and Dune - yes I remember him! and he is special.....
    Thanks, mbm!!! And, while I'm not in favor of the special pony tests, I too agree they should be open to 15handers. fwiw

    Quote Originally Posted by hluing View Post
    I don't think we need seperate tests for ponies...but I am a big supporter of a a seperate division. We need to create a place for ponies to shine and this must include AA not just juniors.
    Hmmm, I agree with the first part, but I guess I don't understand the 2nd....although I cry "uncle!" since I've been out in the hot sun all day, lol! I think even the open divisions are fair game....if you have the "right" pony.

    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post

    eta: 14.3 / 148 cm is an arbitrary line - and sure if someone wants to go the FEI pony route they will need to stay under 148 but no adult can do that anyway... so since we are going to be making our own rules - why not include those ponies that are over 148?
    Just want to make a *tiny* clarification because it's something I hear often and want to correct. First 149 w/shoes is the cutoff, and 148cm is NOT 14.3....it's 14.2 and *approx* 1/4 inch. Those tiny details will get ya....;-)
    Last edited by Dune; Mar. 12, 2013 at 09:37 PM.



  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by hluing View Post
    I don't think we need seperate tests for ponies...but I am a big supporter of a a seperate division. We need to create a place for ponies to shine and this must include AA not just juniors.
    I agree with this more than the tests.
    Kelly
    It is rare to see a rider who is truly passionate about the horse and his training, taking a profound interest in dressage with self-abnegation, and making this extraordinarily subtle work one of the dominant motivations of his life.\"



  14. #134
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    dune, yes i know 148 = 14.2 and a smidge - but i was responding to honeylips who said 14.3



  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perfect Pony View Post
    And why don't we exclude horses who happen to be under 148cm while we are at it....
    why would we do that?

    if we are going to create our very own division for the aging ammie woman rider, why not include all ponies - even those that are over height? no adult can do the pony FEI stuff anyway so what does it matter?

    and i personally have zero interest in pony tests... i want to ride my pony regular tests... but it would be fun to be able to have a pony division and i also think that most adult ammies will want something bigger than 14.2 but maybe i am off base about that....



  16. #136
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    True 149cm is 14.2 and 66/100ths of and inch. 150cm is 14.3.

    But we aren't seeing the creation of the aging adult ammy woman class, which could be open to horses and ponies of all sizes. We are seeing pony classes (which have ponies within the fei and usef rules) to be competed by riders of all ages-open, aa and young rider and not just restricted to juniors as it is now.

    And the fei and usef rule is 149cm with shoes, 148cm no shoes and they have to be measured and carded at a show by the Td and show vet.
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  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    why would we do that?

    if we are going to create our very own division for the aging ammie woman rider, why not include all ponies - even those that are over height? no adult can do the pony FEI stuff anyway so what does it matter?

    and i personally have zero interest in pony tests... i want to ride my pony regular tests... but it would be fun to be able to have a pony division and i also think that most adult ammies will want something bigger than 14.2 but maybe i am off base about that....
    Because like the young horse classes, this will create a market for ponies, it will create focus and it will create opportunity. Give it about 5 to 8 years and I think there will be a change for the positive in the market and in the quality.

    Oversized ponies are HORSES. If you're whining about the creation of a pony class, and aren't going to compete in it anyways, then stop complaining. If you want to redraw the line you'll have to petition the FEI, the pony size rule stems from them.
    Kelly
    It is rare to see a rider who is truly passionate about the horse and his training, taking a profound interest in dressage with self-abnegation, and making this extraordinarily subtle work one of the dominant motivations of his life.\"


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  18. #138
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    Yep, I agree with Honeylips and Kelly. This needs to be a pony class and should follow FEI definition of a pony. I don't think the oversized ponies have the market challenge that true ponies do right now.

    I also want to just disagree about ponies struggling so much with extensions/mediums. Ponies can do what the big boys can...the judges just have to train thier eyes to regognize, yes, it will take more steps across the ring.

    What is critical is having a place to showcase the young ponies without requiring junior riders...because we just don't have them like they do in Germany (quanity and I dare say often quality).

    However, that being said, AA woman are the main market right now and it would be nice to see some awards in place for them from USDF.

    What is amazing is despite there being any rewards or divisions...the ponies are slowly gaining ground soley on thier own merits. But other places (like Australia) are doing it better and faster.
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  19. #139
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    Sorry hluing I really am not trying to single you out but your post really is an example of the whole pony crowd wanting their cake and eat it too. It's a gimmick and a marketing ploy.

    If you believe the following (and I do)

    I also want to just disagree about ponies struggling so much with extensions/mediums. Ponies can do what the big boys can...the judges just have to train thier eyes to regognize, yes, it will take more steps across the ring.


    so if that's true, then why do you/we really need?

    However, that being said, AA woman are the main market right now and it would be nice to see some awards in place for them from USDF.

    So we need another award for the little ole ladies (and I'm 50) to be able to win? The best of the best of ponies....Really? Doesn't all-breeds, vintage, adult amateur awards already give USDF members a chance to put something on the mantle especially if ponies are suppose to be as good and "easier".

    Trust me, I get it from a marketing perspective 'cause it works for the breed crowds. One of the best things of showing Arabs is that there is an award and division for just about anyone and everyone so you don't go home empty handed and they continue to open it up to all sort of breed combinations and division combinations.
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  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by hluing View Post
    I also want to just disagree about ponies struggling so much with extensions/mediums. Ponies can do what the big boys can...the judges just have to train thier eyes to regognize, yes, it will take more steps across the ring.
    My pony has a pretty amazing extension. She doesn't need her own class; her extensions are better than my 17.3hh Dutch gelding in pretty much every measurable way and definitely in the eyes of trainers/judges.

    I'm not really on board with separating classes/tests, but I'd be fine with year-end awards or pony high-points at shows. That way the pony breeders in the US get a chance to promote their breed without having the division troubles that the H/J and breed show folks experience.


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