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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2002
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    784

    Default Ones vs Twos? or how to train the ones (without losing the twos)

    One trainer I highly respect says to leave the twos alone till the ones are somewhat confirmed. Another trainer I highly respect says to have and keep the horse on the aids enough to know the difference.

    I hate to give up my twos but my poor horse is struggling with my incompetence.

    How do you train the ones?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun. 12, 2007
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    CT
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    Default

    Well, my sample set is one - but here's what I'm doing.

    Attempt 1: First we worked on adjustability in the change - i.e. could I make a bigger or smaller change if I wanted to. Then we did tic-tocs on the rail - working to make the change small and balanced so the balance was there for the second change. (We hadn't done any 4s, 3s, or 2s in the rides prior to the tic-tocs, just adjustable singles). Result was a mostly confused horse that got frustrated and starting blowing off all aids for change within a few tries. We put them away for months.

    Attempt 2 (last Friday): I started with the precise canter pattern that I had done many times before because it works for this horse - V across the ring with single changes and pirouette canter at the turns, then a line of big straight 2's across the diagonal. Given prior confusion, I started the 1's on the diagonal instead of the rail, right where I'd just asked for the first two. Within three tries, he's doing 3 sets of 2-3 1's across the diagonal. I've reinforced that twice in the last 5 days, and he did it on the first try each time. Next week, I'll make it harder.

    I guess the take-aways for me were, 1) really know your horse and what works/doesn't for the individual and 2) if it's not working, re-evaluate and work on your basics - don't drill away at the movement.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2002
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    784

    Default Thanks!

    Anyone else?



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2010
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    6,232

    Default

    I don't understand the question or the advice. Why would you lose twos when you do ones? I've never had that problem. The difference is just that the horse has to be quicker and stronger to do the ones and you have to be quicker and more correct with the aides. I've never had an instance where I "gave up" the twos to get the ones.

    I've only done the reverse when my horse was getting to be about 28 and the ones were too hard for him, so I stopped asking.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2005
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    Northeast
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    10,809

    Default

    ^ I'll second that. You can't stutter.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 17, 2000
    Location
    PA
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    3,511

    Default

    My coach (also well respected), has me doing 4/3/2 and the ones.
    For my horse, it is helping him remember to wait for me to ask rather then going on autopilot which is what he tends to do.
    We do all of the them on the circle, straight wall and quarter line however since we are still working on perfecting the ones, we do the ones on the short diagnal instead of the long.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun. 12, 2007
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    CT
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beentheredonethat View Post
    I don't understand the question or the advice. Why would you lose twos when you do ones? I've never had that problem. The difference is just that the horse has to be quicker and stronger to do the ones and you have to be quicker and more correct with the aides. I've never had an instance where I "gave up" the twos to get the ones.

    I've only done the reverse when my horse was getting to be about 28 and the ones were too hard for him, so I stopped asking.
    Sorry - maybe I wasn't clear. My point was that I'm successfully using the two's as warm-up just prior to working on the 1's - so my horse hasn't lost them at all, and working on both in the same session seems helpful to him.



  8. #8
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    Jan. 26, 2010
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    Default

    Well, that's my point. I've never heard of a horse "losing" two's when they learn ones. If the OP could clarify, that would help. I find two's actually easier than three's and four's because the beat makes more sense to me and the horse.

    But, of course I don't just start doing one's right off. You warm up with lesser ones, whichever works for your horse.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 15, 2007
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    (throw dart at map) NC!
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    5,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by austin View Post
    One trainer I highly respect says to leave the twos alone till the ones are somewhat confirmed. Another trainer I highly respect says to have and keep the horse on the aids enough to know the difference.

    I hate to give up my twos but my poor horse is struggling with my incompetence.

    How do you train the ones?
    I think the training approaches you are talking about depend on the horse; I've heard similar advice. I think for some horses (and riders), it depends on your ultimate goal and whether the horse (and/or rider) learns to rely on the space of the timing of aids in the tempis.
    Proud member of the Colbert Dressage Nation



  10. #10
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    Sep. 30, 2007
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    Default

    And then there's me. What are ones? What are two's? What are 4/3/2's? I hope someone will kindly enlighten me. Obviously I am not a dressage rider.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul. 1, 2011
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    2,150

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukluk View Post
    And then there's me. What are ones? What are two's? What are 4/3/2's? I hope someone will kindly enlighten me. Obviously I am not a dressage rider.
    Lead changes. Tempi Changes. ones are switching every stride, two's are switching every 2 strides (also not a dressage rider but I think that's correct)



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep. 30, 2007
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    Thanks ElisLove, I think that must be what they are talking about. I think the best my horse and I ever do is probably 20's



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2008
    Posts
    161

    Default

    It's true, most horses seem to mix up the 2's when learning 1's.

    I've heard from the SRS school 2's on the diagonal, but 1's on the 1/4 line helps.

    Nothing to agonize over though- with a little bit of mileage the horse gets it and no longer makes mistakes. Don't fret and don't correct- any change is good! Just keep practicing and it comes.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2011
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    584

    Default

    For a while after learning the ones, all canter work (and even some of the trot) turns into ones. Canter halfpass? Nope. One-tempis. How about just cantering quietly along the long side? Nope. One-tempis.

    Once the newness wears off a bit, sanity returns.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2006
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    1,091

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cnm161 View Post
    For a while after learning the ones, all canter work (and even some of the trot) turns into ones. Canter halfpass? Nope. One-tempis. How about just cantering quietly along the long side? Nope. One-tempis.

    Once the newness wears off a bit, sanity returns.

    One tempis in the canter zigzag. One tempis in the volte. One tempis interspersed with passage.

    Fortunately it all works out in the end. Sigh


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2002
    Posts
    784

    Default thanks! I do need to work on being quick and clear.

    first time for me to be at this point. very grateful to be here.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2010
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    Default

    I've never had a horse go one tempi crazy once learning them. So, don't assume you will have this issue. There might be more issues with doing too many when just learning changes or two's, but one's are hard, so horses don't generally just do them all of the time.



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