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  1. #21
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    Jul. 31, 2007
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    You know, the Iditarod race is going on right now. "Pull" is a good thing to those dogs. Good timing with your thread!
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


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  2. #22
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    Sep. 5, 2005
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    Mass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovey1121 View Post
    He now expects and INSISTS on meeting other dogs he sees, because it sounds like you've allowed it at least once in the past-sometimes, that's all it takes. S
    The previous owner allowed it, obviously. We've had him for 13 days so this habit came with him. Thus, we have four years of bad habit to break.

    Edit: He is not even remotely food-oriented, alas. Doesn't care at all about treats!
    I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry



  3. #23
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    Oct. 29, 2007
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    TN
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    What about toys/balls? If he does, find out what his "high value" toys are and make play time with those into a reward.
    "Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out." ~John Wooden

    Phoenix Animal Rescue



  4. #24
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    Apr. 22, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guin View Post
    The previous owner allowed it, obviously. We've had him for 13 days so this habit came with him. Thus, we have four years of bad habit to break.

    Edit: He is not even remotely food-oriented, alas. Doesn't care at all about treats!
    Sorry if I assumed the wrong thing, but your OP didn't state those specifics. Good luck tomorrow.



  5. #25
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    Oct. 12, 2001
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    Edit: He is not even remotely food-oriented, alas. Doesn't care at all about treats!
    I don't like to use treats or toys for teaching no-pull; it seems to work far better to use environmental rewards for no-pull. In general, the principle for no-pull is: if you do not pull, I will let you move forward. The dog is pulling because he WANTS to move forward, so you teach him the way he gets what he wants is to do what you want, namely, not pull. You're playing the trade game: if you do what I want, you get what you want.

    Normally I'd suggest you NEVER let a dog do those stupid "meet n greets" when on leash- dogs on leashes should never interact with each other- but a) he's already in the habit of it, and b) since that is what this dog wants, maybe you could do a trade:

    If you do not pull, I will let you meet n sniff the other dog?

    Or perhaps there is a destination he really likes going to- a park, perhaps? If you do not pull, you can go to the park?

    So you pick the "reward", make sure you tons of time, and just do it. Pull= we don't move forward; no-pull= we move forward. It takes patience and consistency is all.

    If the dog is too strong for you, and can literally drag you forward, yes, use a tool. I like prong collars, personally. They get the message across clearly and in a humane way, as long as you aren't using the prong to deliver leash-corrections. It's often very easy to transition from a prong to regular collar; it's often very difficult to transition from one of the no-pull halters or nose-halters to a regular collar.



  6. #26
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    Feb. 1, 2012
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    Vermont
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    Our Golden is the same way when on a leash in public...I'd like trying to keep an elephant under control when he meets people or other dogs.

    I tried a prong collar on him at our local Tractor Supply to see how it worked before buying. I simply slid it on, held the leash so he was by my side with no extra leash to take off, kept my hand stationary at my side, and we started walking. When he got the point that he'd be pulling, I just kept my hand steady. He very quickly learned that pulling wasn't so much fun, and I kid you not, we proceeded to browse the store on a Saturday, with tons of people and other dogs, and he was so quiet next to me, he resembled a seeing-eye dog...stayed consistent next to me, did not pull, it was wonderful!

    Then you have to deal with the nasty stares of people who think you're a big meanie weanie for putting that cruel collar on your dog...
    "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."



  7. #27
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    Mar. 25, 2011
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    Pennsylvania
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    I taught my dogs to heel on a flat collar and walked them thereafter on harnesses. As I said; it's not the tool, it's the technique.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


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  8. #28
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    Oct. 4, 2010
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    Middle America
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    I have a question about the method of when the dog pulls, you don't walk forward any longer.

    Both my dogs will just stand there straining against the leash if I do that. Especially if it's because they see another dog. I do what I've read - I've gotten into a situation where they REALLY want to go investigate something (usually a squirrel or another dog) and I just stop dead. They will just keep on straining forward on me. Like, for minutes upon end. Which I assume is not exactly productive.

    It's infuriating to me, because when we're just walking along with little distractions, they're perfectly capable of walking at my side with no tension on the lead.

    I feel like I really need a trainer, because of the above example and one other situation: when new people come into the house, my 2 dogs think they're allowed to go bat$hit crazy-friendly and no amount of the training tricks "I" know have helped. I end up just shutting them up in the guest bedroom. But there literally are no good dog trainers in my area that I know of - and Petsmart is not an option.

    It's really hard because they're pretty much foot-perfect when they're not obsessed with NEW PERSON!!!! or OTHER DOG!!!!!
    In order to think outside the box, one must first know what is in the box.


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  9. #29
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    Nov. 29, 2007
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    Virginia
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenEM View Post
    We've got one of the Sporn no-pull harnesses for our dog, and it's been great. Other than her chewing through the mesh She's more of a puller out of wanting to go faster than we necessarily want to walk. We've been working on the whole "be a tree" idea when she starts pulling--just stop, and in my case, I've been reinforcing verbally with "whoa" until she stops and there's slack on the lead, then I ask her to "walk on." She's smart, so it's been pretty effective with her.
    Yep! For the "make like a tree" you stop as soon as the dog puts tension on the leash. A tip -- Remember to anchor your hand in a fixed position so you don't unwittingly give and take tension yourself just with your arm movement -- anchor your hand against your side or stomach. When stopped due to the dog's pulling, just wait poochie out and at first you may have to reward just the slightest lessening of tension, let them move forward, then if they lunge/pull again, make like a tree again. It is so important to be ready to shape the behavior you want by first rewarding just a slight lessening of tension -- don't wait for the dog to give you complete release so that the leash visibly sags right at first, just reward a tiny lessening of tension, and be aware you can feel changes in tension a lot easier than you can see them.

    I find this so effective. I used to tell clients that it might take the whole first session just to walk down the driveway, but if they are vigilant about not allowing forward motion unless the leash is loose, the dogs really do figure it out pretty quickly.

    Another troubleshooting tip -- If you really can't wait your dog out for some reason, make a kissy noise just to get her to snap her head around to orient to you, and that motion gives you the release of tension you need -- be ready to instantly reward it with forward motion.

    Work on your timing so that the millisecond the tension releases even a little, you are ready to reward with moving forward. The "feel" of it becomes a lot like knowing when to release a rein or leg aid when riding.
    "However complicated and remarkable the rest of his life was going to be, it was here now, come to claim him."- JoAnn Mapson



  10. #30
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    Mar. 10, 2007
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    Montana
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    Or you can get a prong collar and let the dog do all the work! LOL


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  11. #31
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    Mar. 10, 2006
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    NC
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    OP, how was your session with the trainer yesterday? I hope you were able to get some help. You got some good suggestions here, but sometimes, just like with riding, it helps to have someone actually with you to help you understand and apply what you have read.



  12. #32
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    Oct. 12, 2001
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    Then you have to deal with the nasty stares of people who think you're a big meanie weanie for putting that cruel collar on your dog.
    that's why you get these: http://lolalimited.net/Secretprong.html

    gorgeous, well-made collars. They are safer than regular prongs too- sometimes regular prongs just suddenly come apart, and these won't.



  13. #33
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    Mar. 10, 2006
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    NC
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    Wow, Wendy, those are beautiful! Thanks for posting. I saw one at a boutique pet store recently, and couldn't figure out how it would get put on, so was intrigued to see the turning inside out technique.



  14. #34
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    Aug. 5, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by enjoytheride View Post
    I think of it like lunging a horse. If you are behind them directly then a horse can drag you around. But if you are at the right angle you can pull a horse off its feet.

    A dog is smaller then a horse.

    It has been awhile since I have trained dogs, but this method worked for me every time. If you stand directly behind a dog they will pull and since nothing changes except that they get to go toward what they want they continue to pull.

    Walk dog in a big open space. As dog is about to hit the end of the leash head in the other direction at an angle. The angle will give you some leverage and the dog will hit the end of the leash and spin around a bit. Look at dog like he is nuts.

    Repeat. Every time the dog is about to hit the end of the leash and pull turn on your heel at an angle.

    IGNORE.

    Every time the dog lets the leash go slack and comes back to you PRAISE.

    A smart dog learns very quickly where the end of the leash is and that hitting the end results in him being yo yo'd. You don't have to yell at him or say anything or correct him so it isn't really associated with you. The dog figures out where his boundries are and you can start your heeling training by praising him if he comes back to you.

    I always did this in a regular collar, we didn't have all the extra fancy stuff back then and I wouldn't want to use a chain for it.
    This.

    repeatedly.

    No need for a special collar so long as your dog can't slip the one you are training in.

    Teaches the dog to watch the moving human they are attached to, not the scenery.

    Works especially well with a 6' to 10' lead.
    DO NOT keep a tight lead, there must be slack at all times unless doggie forges out of position on their own mission; when owner makes a right turn, hugs the end of the leash to their chest and takes off.

    Praise the dog lavishly every time they come up to your side where they are supposed to be.

    Walk on.

    Dogs figure it out very quickly.



  15. #35
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    Mar. 25, 2011
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    Pennsylvania
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    This is why we started walking on a harness. Sometimes that self correction can be hard because the dog has taken off explosively (I have dogs with high prey drives). I didn't want all that correction to occur on their necks. Also this is why I walk them on a belt around my waist -when they hit the end of the leash and it's in your hand it is easier for you to reward them by giving. When they're attached to your body the timing of the self correction is much more precise -your trunk won't give like your arm does.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  16. #36
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    Nov. 20, 2010
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    Upstate New York
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    Quote Originally Posted by enjoytheride View Post
    I think of it like lunging a horse. If you are behind them directly then a horse can drag you around. But if you are at the right angle you can pull a horse off its feet.

    A dog is smaller then a horse.

    It has been awhile since I have trained dogs, but this method worked for me every time. If you stand directly behind a dog they will pull and since nothing changes except that they get to go toward what they want they continue to pull.

    Walk dog in a big open space. As dog is about to hit the end of the leash head in the other direction at an angle. The angle will give you some leverage and the dog will hit the end of the leash and spin around a bit. Look at dog like he is nuts.

    Repeat. Every time the dog is about to hit the end of the leash and pull turn on your heel at an angle.

    IGNORE.

    Every time the dog lets the leash go slack and comes back to you PRAISE.

    A smart dog learns very quickly where the end of the leash is and that hitting the end results in him being yo yo'd. You don't have to yell at him or say anything or correct him so it isn't really associated with you. The dog figures out where his boundries are and you can start your heeling training by praising him if he comes back to you.

    I always did this in a regular collar, we didn't have all the extra fancy stuff back then and I wouldn't want to use a chain for it.
    Yup - this exactly. My 8 yo Irish Wolfhound was 5 when we got her. She yanked the former owner out of PetCo to meet us. Was sitting on one side of the back seat on the way home, and LEAPT over ExSO when we opened the door on his side, bloodying his arm, and dragging him for about 50' before he was able to stop her.

    She also was scared to death of walks anywhere near any cars or trucks.

    I immediately contacted some IW people, got the name of an excellent trainer, and what she taught us was exactly what is mentioned here.

    The first couple of months were challenging, but she greatly improved. Repeated practice was crucial. Praise as well. And routine.

    And the "make like a tree" for any instance where she was going to excitedly head away from you.

    I previously raised Labs, and was used to basic obedience training. Eventually, we got where we could walk off leash with additional training, and she returns to us. Even walking through fields. She's a sighthound, so it's not always right away, but eventually.

    She is 125 lbs, and I've never had to use a severe collar on her. In fact, she walks on a cloth choke collar. It did not take much to undo 5 years of not knowing what was expected of her. Just a lot of practice!

    Oh, and sometimes you will get dizzy with all the quick turn-arounds!

    Good luck. You'll get there!
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes


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  17. #37
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    Sep. 5, 2005
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    Mass.
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    Hi all - due to a family member in the hospital I've had to postpone the trainer. BUT --- I have been practicing that spinning around while leash walking and that has worked very well for the general pulling. I almost think someone taught him that before, but didn't practice it very often. After 15 minutes of about-faces, he was walking right beside me at my pace.
    In terms of other dogs, he has been pretty polite recently. Really all he wants to do is sniff and then he moves on about his business. Thanks for everyone's suggestions. He is really a good dog.
    I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry


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  18. #38
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    Apr. 19, 2011
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    St. Louis, MO
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    My horrible puller is now walking beautifully with an Easy-Walk harness. The leash attaches at the chest, and the other straps apply pressure behind the front legs (like a Sporn) if she still pulls. I LOVE LOVE LOVE it. Has been just great, and incidentally, is what was recommended here when I asked for advice!

    We had tried a Gentle Leader in the past and while it worked, poor doggie grew to hate it so passionately I couldn't use it anymore. We went to a pinch/prong collar, and that worked just fine. We were both quite happy with it (she would come running for walks instead of running away from the GL). A year ago, though, she developed back pain from spinal arthritis and I had to find something else that didn't "torque" her neck at all. She pulled too much in a regular harness. So I asked for help on this forum, and voila, Easy Walk. Can't recommend enough!

    Hope the trainer helps you whatever you wind up doing. Being pulled off your feet is never any fun!


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  19. #39
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    Jun. 1, 2002
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    Indiana
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    When he's right by your side you can say "heel!!!" What a good boy! So he starts to associate the word heel with being by your side. Eventually you can shorten up the leash and heel for short periods (while keeping the leash loose and doing the yo yo on a short leash) then let him go with "go sniff!" when he has done it for a bit. Never say "heel" unless you mean it. The dog needs to be either right by your side or on his way, every time you do something without meaning it is a step toward untraining.

    I had "on duty" and "off duty" When I was just out for a walk my dog could go anywhere the leash let her as long as she didn't pull. This was her time to sniff and have fun. But when we were "working" she had to stay in heel. When you are ready to go back to work say "come!" have him come up to you (reel him in if you need to) ask him to sit, then say "heel!"

    Before you cross any street get him back by your side and ask him to sit, then cross. You'll start to train in the automatic sit when you come to a halt while heeling, and your dog learns that can NEVER cross a street before he sits which is much safer. You can even add in a "sidewalk" command.


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