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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2001
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    Los Angeles, California
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    Default Can entriliths be prevented with citrus juice?

    I have a lemon tree in the backyard that for the past five years has turned into the giving tree and a person can only drink just so much lemonade, the neighbor has a grapefruit tree that is even bigger and more generous.
    In California the feed staple hay is alfalfa which has been linked to entroliths. which are mostly calcium which is dissolved by citric acid.
    Would a horse...
    1-Drink/eat lemon juice?
    2-Benefit from citrus juice.
    Save Schrodinger's Cat!!!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2003
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    Baldwin, MD
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    Default

    Answer to your question: No. Vinegar has been investigated as a preventative and shown to mildly (very slightly) lower colonic pH, but no evidence has been shown that it does enough to prevent enterolith formation. A better way to prevent would be to change your horses diet.

    See this article:

    Significant advances in the study of risk factors and mechanisms involved in enterolith formation have not occurred in recent years, but are the subject of ongoing research at the University of California. Proposed etiologic factors for development of enteroliths include dietary or genetic factors contributing to increased mineral content and an alkaline pH within the colon, increased exposure to nidi (foreign materials providing a central core for the enterolith), and conditions promoting reduced intestinal motility in the large intestine. Theories for enterolith formation have been derived from studies on the chemical composition of enteroliths and the interactions of these components with the large intestine of the horse. Previous studies showed that the mineral content of both the water supply and alfalfa hay in several parts of California far exceeded the recommended magnesium requirements for horses (Lloyd, 1987). Alfalfa hay may also contribute to enterolith formation by providing a high level of protein. An excessive amount of free ammonium may be released into the large colon of the horses from the digestion of high protein feeds such as alfalfa (Blue, 1979; Murray, 1992). This free ammonium could combine with magnesium and phosphate ions to form ammonium, magnesium, and phosphate crystals (struvite) and contribute to enterolith formation. Retrospective analysis of horses with enteroliths revealed approximately 98% had a diet which consisted of ³ 50% alfalfa hay. Although the water supply in California is also high in magnesium, the daily intake of magnesium from drinking water is less than one-tenth of that which is ingested in a daily feeding of alfalfa hay.
    The source of phosphorus for enterolith formation has been attributed to brans. Although grains provide a significant amount of dietary phosphorus, rice, wheat, and rye brans have been reported to have higher protein, phosphorus, and magnesium content than their whole grain counterparts (Lloyd, 1987). Further studies identifying whether bran feeding is a risk factor for enterolith formation are pending. The pH of large colon intestinal contents from horses with enteroliths has been reported to be higher than in horses without enteroliths (Hintz, 1985). Alterations in intestinal pH have been shown to occur as a result of dietary changes. Increasing the grain to hay ratio resulted in a decrease in colonic pH, and feeding alfalfa with magnesium oxide supplementation resulted in an increase in pH in colonic fluid (Hintz, 1985). In addition, adding 1 cup of vinegar to the diet daily has been shown to reduce colonic pH (Hintz, 1989). An additional factor which could play a role in enterolith formation is environmental and feeding management factors. Reduced movement of bulk feed material through the large intestine may provide a favorable environment for stones to incubate and grow . Feeding highly digestible, lower fiber feedstuffs, such as alfalfa hay, may contribute to reduced intestinal motility in the large intestine. Other factors which may negatively affect motility include restricted physical activity (i.e. stall confinement) and infrequent feeding (i.e. feeding 1-2 times daily). With regards to stall confinement, the type of bedding used may play a role in enterolith formation. Straw bedding provides an opportunity for horses to nibble on a high fiber, bulk feed material throughout the day, which is also low in magnesium, phosphorus, and protein, as opposed to horses bedded on shavings or without any bedding. All of these factors will be more thoroughly investigated to determine whether they play a role in enterolith formation.
    Genetic predisposition may play a role in the development of enteroliths. Within the retrospective study, 8.4% of horses with enteroliths had siblings affected. In accordance with previous reports, the Arabian breed remains the most commonly affected b reed. Arabians and Arabian crosses comprised 40.3% (353) of the enterolith case population, yet they only represented 14.2% of the control hospital population (Figure 2). Other commonly affected breeds included Quarter Horses (238), Thoroughbreds (84), Appaloosas (47), Morgans (35), and American Miniatures (22). Warmbloods were underrepresented compared with the control group.


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  3. #3
    5 is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Default

    Okay Thanks.

    Anyone want some lemons?
    Save Schrodinger's Cat!!!


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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    Default

    Anyone want some lemons?


    Compared to the pH of what the stomach puts out, acids such as citric and acetic acid are like spitting in the ocean. To try and acidify things with such pitifully weak acids in the milieu of a stomach pH of about 1 is unnecessary. What is coming out of the unmedicated stomach is PLENTY ACID already. The secretions of the pancreas take care of neutralizing it before it heads further downstream.

    As to other benefits like vitamin C, well, horses make their own.

    How about a lemonade stand? Sell to local seafood joints?
    Click here before you buy.


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  5. #5
    5 is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post


    How about a lemonade stand?
    Not a bad idea.

    I could also use them in these

    http://allrecipes.com/recipe/rosemary-lemon-margarita/
    http://www.thewickednoodle.com/meyer-lemon-margarita/


    I also have in emergencies used the juice to neutralize the fish pond when the Ph gets sky high. A gallon of neutralizer costs 76$! and it's pretty much just dilute sulfuric. It doesn't take too many lemons to do the same thing either, 5 to 10 but the pond doesn't need it often so the tree will outrun me.
    Save Schrodinger's Cat!!!



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr. 3, 2011
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    Oh goodness, we are facing the same problem. I am a baker so I just give lemon meringue pies, lemon chess pies, lemon poppy seed bread, lemon bars, and lemon cakes to everyone I know. They are usually quite happy to receive the processed lemons; raw I couldn't get any takers, lol.



  7. #7
    5 is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluebuckets View Post
    Oh goodness, we are facing the same problem. I am a baker.
    Could you PM me some safe and sane recipes for lemons?
    Save Schrodinger's Cat!!!



  8. #8
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    Apr. 3, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5 View Post
    Could you PM me some safe and sane recipes for lemons?
    Sure thing! Although it will be later tonight when I get home.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2012
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    gulf coast
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    Default

    Many homeless people suffer vit C deficiency, especially the children. Can you donate the extra lemons to your local food pantry or Second Harvest? Might get a tax credit.


    3 members found this post helpful.

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