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  1. #41
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    Feb. 10, 2004
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    I was told that when Shelby resigned on February 9, she agreed to stay on till a new CEO was chosen. Something happened between February 9-26 that made her walk away. Shelby has too much integrity to continue to run interference for the USHJA/Bill Moroney.

    At the convention I thought she was going to have a heart attack dealing with the election BS & trying to deal with all the problems caused by others.

    At some point maybe the membership of the USHJA will be let in on what's going on!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #42
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    Oct. 14, 2008
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    Thanks for the history lesson, WA, I didn't know the details but the basic issue is pretty clear even from a distance. Of course I see the Catch-22, that was what I meant by "business realities." And all journalism business models are between a rock and a hard place these days, as jody pointed out, it's not pretty.

    So yeah, I totally get it, and my post was meant "more in sorrow than in anger", as they say.

    BTW, I reached out to the Paper of Record yesterday as they are by far the best positioned to carry this forward if they see a story here. They have their own problems, but being in thrall to the h/j PTBs isn't one of them.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #43
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    Aug. 6, 2000
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    lexington, virginia
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    360

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    Yes, I also contacted my buddies at the LA Times, more about the Ocala stuff. We will see what happens.



  4. #44
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    Jul. 31, 2007
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    14,951

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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    The problem is that if COTH moves toward a more investigative stance (and for the record I do agree that they should) - whence the revenue????

    It's not really about fear of pissing off editorial sources; it's about fear of pissing off sources of advertising revenue. What once was cozy reciprocity that worked for everybody now looks more like conflict of interest.
    1. I don't mean to drag COTH into the mud because the community on which they report has chosen to get dirty.

    2. The full history and conflicts for COTH you posted, War Admiral, are much appreciated.

    But this bit-- all of you-- confuses me.

    Look, if readership wants articles that seem more investigative and goes to COTH (as opposed to, say, RateMyHorsePro.com) for that, how are they losing those all-important advertising dollars? Don't companies buy ad space based on subscriptions and a luscious demographic?

    I can see some folks not placing as many vanity ads if they have been set down for D&M infractions, or advertisers like Carolina Gold not taking ad space. Are those COTH's bread-and-butter?

    As others have pointed out, other newspapers and journals are selling ad space and subscriptions while they are doing investigative stuff that their readers value.

    Can someone explain?
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Aug. 12, 2001
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    Trailer Trash Ammy!
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    It's the word of mouth effect. Some may remember a certain set-down-for-life trainer taking out a vanity ad a while back which was countered by (ahem) lots of people on this forum donating towards an anti-that-trainer ad which ran simultaneously. Trainer was. not. a happy bunny. And of course trainer has friends, and clients, and friends of friends and wannabe friends of wannabe friends, who then won't advertise either. And so it goes.

    ETA another, better example: Joint Supplement Manufacturer A sponsors Trainer B. Trainer B gets into some big, bad trouble w/ the NGB. Joint Supplement Manufacturer A issues diktat to Magazine C that if Magazine C doesn't low-key the story and not even MENTION the company's sponsorship of Trainer B, Joint Supplement Manufacturer A will pull their ad block of full page, full color ads that they bought for an entire year and paid for in advance.

    Best thing you can do to help really IS to subscribe.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2000
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    Southern Pines, N.C.
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    11,422

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    The Chronicle was never intended to be an investigative publication. For those who are now demanding that it to turn into one, that is an unrealistic expectation. (Especially those who will only subscribe if it does... Yea. right.That is a vacuous statement).

    It has existed (and existed well during the transition to online news sources which has caused many magazines and newpapers to go under) by reporting sport horse results and soft journalism.

    For those who blithly expect it to transform its mission, why should it? Such a move toward a controversial and expose ("ay") journalism would result in lost advertisers and subscribers. It is the subswcribers who provide its meat and potatoes income. Many/most have been loyal to the current COTH for generations.

    For those who think that COTH should change its mandate and lose revenue by doing so, where is the extra income coming from? I can think of 2 sources:
    1. an increased subscriber base, which must actually increase readership of the print magazine, or
    2. Turning this BB into a paid website.

    Which option do you propose? The majority of people use the BB without subscribing to the magazine. i.e. you are getting something for nothing. I agree with the poster who suggested that only those who contribute to COTH (via subscrition or advertising) should have a right to voice an opinion as to its future. The rest of you are benefitting from the money paid to the magazine by others.

    Bottom line, put your money where your mouth is. Ya want to play, ya gotta pay.
    "I used to have money, now I have horses."


    5 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
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    Sep. 14, 2011
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    69

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    Wow this is the first time I have heard for Shelby leaving. I am on one of the committees at the zone level. I very much respected Shelby and everything she has done! She always pointed me in the right direction if i needed help with anything. I rode under her at St. Andrews College back in the 1990's... I also have seen some things changing this year so far as far as who all is showing where..



  8. #48
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    Oct. 29, 2000
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    Southern Pines, N.C.
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    Now for a possible solution.

    Create a web site which is dedicated to investigative journalism.

    Seems like there are enough writers/journalists to provide guidance to those who harbor a secretive desire to get down and dirty and research and write about the inner workings of our sport.

    Other sports have such groups. Who do you think finally caused Lance Armstrong to be exposed? TPTB had "looked onto" his issues and had either drunk the Kool Aid and believed what they were told, or were intimidated to the point where they stopped investigating.


    If people are not satisfied with the current status of information flow, then create a new one which is not beholden to or attached to the current cabal of fools and liars who have elected theselves to be our leaders.

    RMHP has started this process, but it is not in the business of creating news, just in reporting it without self editing. Perhaps individuals who really want to investigate could associate themselves with RMHP so that its madate could be enlarged. (Of course I have no idea is realistic or possible, but it is more realistic than expecting COTH to turn into a RMHP.)
    "I used to have money, now I have horses."


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
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    Aug. 2, 2010
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    385

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helpus View Post
    Now for a possible solution.

    Create a web site which is dedicate to investigative journalism.

    Seems like there are enough writers/journalists to provide guidance to those who harbor a secretive desire to get down and dirty and research and write about the inner workings of our sport.

    Other sports have such groups. Who do you think finally caused Lance Armstrong to be exposed? TPTB had "looked onto" his issues and had either drunk the Kool Aid and believed what they were told, or were intimidated to the point where they stopped investigating.


    If people are not satisfied with the current status of information flow, then create a new one which is not beholden to or attached to the current cabal of fools and liars who have elected theselves to be our leaders.

    RMHP has started this process, but it is not in the business of creating news, just in reporting it without self editing. Perhaps individuals who really want to investigate could associate themselves with RMHP so that its madate could be enlarged. (Of course I have no idea is realistic or possible, but it is more realistic than expecting COTH to turn into a RMHP.)
    Those willing to do this would have to have very deep pockets to defend the lawsuits by the likes of Mandarino ...



  10. #50
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    Oct. 29, 2000
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    Southern Pines, N.C.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muggle Mom View Post
    Those willing to do this would have to have very deep pockets to defend the lawsuits by the likes of Mandarino ...
    Another reason why COTH doesn't need to wade into the realm of investigative journalism.
    "I used to have money, now I have horses."


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #51
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    Oct. 1, 2002
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    Cow County, MD
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    Quote Originally Posted by jody jaffe View Post
    And while journalism is being discussed, this statement could not be any more further from the truth:

    "If you are on a beat, you do have to be careful with your better sources. Cover them fairly and you will continue to get information--and by "fairly," I don't mean gratuitously praising their every move, I mean being accurate and objective. "

    Being accurate and objective is the only way you treat EVERY source, EVERY person you EVER interview. There is no tiered approach to fairness and accuracy in journalism. Anything less is not journalism.
    I certainly didn't mean to imply that a reporter should treat any of his or her sources in a way that was not accurate or objective. To clarify, I am saying that if you work a beat, you have to build relationships with your good sources, because they are the holders of the information you regularly seek. No information, no story, no paycheck.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helpus View Post
    Who do you think finally caused Lance Armstrong to be exposed? TPTB had "looked onto" his issues and had either drunk the Kool Aid and believed what they were told, or were intimidated to the point where they stopped investigating.
    Travis Tygart of the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency pretty much made it his mission to bring down Lance Armstrong.
    Life would be infinitely better if pinatas suddenly appeared throughout the day.



  12. #52
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    May. 6, 2006
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    rapidan,virginia
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    I do find it ironic that on its Facebook page, the Chronicle claims that the fans call it "The Wall Street Journal of horse sports....but better!"

    Really??!!!
    "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
    Rainy: http://tinyurl.com/kj7x53c
    Stash: http://tinyurl.com/mmm3p4e


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #53
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    Mar. 20, 2011
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    433

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    Don't hold your breath! Who KNOWS what goes on behind closed doors? How did Maclay Regionals get moved from Westbrook to Fairfield, for instance? It does not appear to have been a recommendation of the Equitation Committee. Hmmmm.
    I hate Dictatorships!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #54
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    Aug. 2, 2010
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    385

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helpus View Post
    Another reason why COTH doesn't need to wade into the realm of investigative journalism.
    Agreed. But I was referring to Lord Helpus' suggestion, "if people are not satisfied with the current status of information flow, then create a new one which is not beholden to or attached to the current cabal of fools and liars who have elected theselves to be our leaders."

    That would take a group of individuals who were willing to risk a lot.



  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helpus View Post

    RMHP has started this process, but it is not in the business of creating news, just in reporting it without self editing. Perhaps individuals who really want to investigate could associate themselves with RMHP so that its madate could be enlarged. (Of course I have no idea is realistic or possible, but it is more realistic than expecting COTH to turn into a RMHP.)
    Lord Helpus, We think that is a great idea. It is inspiring to see all of the journalists on this board. Our reporters would be honored to work with any of you that are interested in contributing.

    Rate My Horse PRO is committed to bringing about change within the industry through various channels including news reporting.

    info@ratemyhorsepro.com


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muggle Mom View Post
    Those willing to do this would have to have very deep pockets to defend the lawsuits by the likes of Mandarino ...
    For those who may not be aware, the lawsuit brought by Amber Hill Farm against Rate My Horse PRO was dismissed at the first hearing.

    Lawsuits do not defer the truth.

    NJ Court Rules in Favor of Rate My Horse PRO

    You can find the court documents for the remaining defendants.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  17. #57
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    Aug. 2, 2010
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    385

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    True, but they do cost a lot of money to defend - which is why reporting it under the auspices of a business like RMHP is the right way to go. I remember when Humble died at Devon, you were a day ahead of COTH on reporting the incident. Thank you for that!


    5 members found this post helpful.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Apr. 8, 2000
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    PA
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    1,088

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    Uh, since I originally brought the topic up, let me clarify that I was not suggesting that the Chronicle delve into the not so lovely world of muck-raking. Investigative journalism is just that - investigative - as in just digging a little deeper. And, truthfully, there needs to be some digging and, hopefully, a smart editor who makes sure the reporting is fair and that all sides get a chance to speak their piece.

    As far as ads? Those two-page congratulatory spreads are going to continue as long as there are judges and clients to impress, horses to be sold and egos to be stroked. In fact, the state of denial in the horse show world is so high that I am willing to bet that more than one person could read an in-depth article on the protocol of prepping a hunter and never even think it applied to them.

    I will tell you that at my newspaper there was a line between the advertising and editorial department and, really, ne'er the twain should meet. I vividly recall a column (not an article, an opinion piece) decrying the cost of entering a popular Christmas event. The vp's of advertising and marketing were livid; they were sure that the advertiser would pull their ads. But, guess what? Nothing happened. They are still advertising. I am not sure if the cost of attending the event has gone down. Some of my colleagues questioned the sense of running the column but I told them that if you are going to let the advertisers dictate the content then you might as well stop the presses and go home because you will very quickly become irrelevant.

    I understand what the Chronicle was and is to this day although, truthfully, I believe that the content has slipped over the past few years. Any institution is forced to evolve or it will quickly slip into the mists of memory. In its heyday the Chronicle was the only way to get up to date information and I well remember the hand-wringing when people did not get their issue on time. Now, we live in the world of instant information. It is all out there and available on your phone for crying out loud. The pictures are on Facebook, the riders tweet, puff pieces abound in InStride. Maybe the time has come for the Chronicle to dip their toe in the water and publish an article that will get people thinking and talking. Along with all of the stuff that we love about the magazine including the fine job they do of getting timely stories on their website.

    I cannot help but think that if someone had done a little digging and took the chance of making some people uncomfortable not so many horses would have died in the insurance scams. Because, frankly, there were a lot of people who knew all about it.

    And that, to me, is what is is all about.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  19. #59
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    Feb. 10, 2004
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    260

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    Apparently Shelby no longer exists according to USEF. She is no longer listed on the judge's roster. What the heck? This story gets stranger & stranger!



  20. #60
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    Mar. 5, 2007
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    1,704

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    Quote Originally Posted by 111 View Post
    Apparently Shelby no longer exists according to USEF. She is no longer listed on the judge's roster. What the heck? This story gets stranger & stranger!
    No longer exists? She is still listed as a member LOL
    She only did one show in 2012 so I think you are reading a tad too much into this.
    What DOES get stranger and stranger are the conclusions drawn by posters on this thread most of whom operate with out any knowledge of the circumstances and just love to speculate, clueless or not.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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