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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abercrombie View Post
    Oh brother; you and your pro-slaughter peeps still shoveling the "slaughter is better than starvation" pablum?

    How about just telling the truth?

    1.) People want a convenient way to dispose of their horse(s)

    2.) The meat, cattle, and livestock industry want to slaughter horses to protect their "slaughter rights" for other animals.

    There? Wasn't that easy?
    Let's just put the cards on the table. Thanks, Abercrombie.
    "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    There are new, well-documented studies that will show that all of the hoopla about bute, roids, etc., in horse meat have been falsified. Just as the 'researchers' scammed the world and made up data to support the false theory of climate change, the rara crowd has made up the data on horse meat contamination. Wild horses living on grass in Colorado register higher levels of all contaminants than the rara's believe should be permitted. Just more cry baby, heart-horse fiction coming from people who may own a dog, but probably have never owned a horse. If horse meat is so bad for you, why is Taco Bell now featuring it in all of its tacos and burritos?
    Getting out my tinfoil hat now.
    "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp



  3. #123
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    Jun. 30, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    There are new, well-documented studies that will show that all of the hoopla about bute, roids, etc., in horse meat have been falsified. Just as the 'researchers' scammed the world and made up data to support the false theory of climate change, the rara crowd has made up the data on horse meat contamination. Wild horses living on grass in Colorado register higher levels of all contaminants than the rara's believe should be permitted. Just more cry baby, heart-horse fiction coming from people who may own a dog, but probably have never owned a horse. If horse meat is so bad for you, why is Taco Bell now featuring it in all of its tacos and burritos?
    Please provide links to all of the new, well-documented studies.

    Thank you.

    As for Taco Bell "featuring" it in all of it's tacos and burritos, please provide your proof of that as well. The search I did shows it is all part of the same horse meat scandal plaguing the European market right now. They did not intentionally put the meat in their food.

    You really should get your facts straight before you post.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...andal/1957233/

    Taco Bell is the latest restaurant chain to acknowledge that its food has been adulterated with horse meat, yanking a variety of ground beef products from its three British outlets and issuing an apology to its patrons Friday. Meanwhile, in Iceland, a food official said his team had found a beef product which contained no meat at all.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    Sixty-three trailer loads arriving at two slaughter plants in Texas were observed in July and August of 1998.
    15 years ago... Way to post current data.
    "Have a Coke and a Smile"



  5. #125
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    Jun. 27, 2005
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    KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    If horse meat is so bad for you, why is Taco Bell now featuring it in all of its tacos and burritos?
    OMG, where do you people come up with this crap??????

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    If horse meat is so bad for you, why is Taco Bell now featuring it in all of its tacos and burritos?

    Because it is tasty.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #127
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    Dec. 31, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    Well if they don't have papers to say what breed it is, they certainly can't know if it's been given a banned substance can they?

    Re: the breed, I believe it has to be ID'd on the EID... will go try to find a reliable source of that document that you can peruse.

    Here ya' go:

    EID and passport info, EU
    http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/farmin...entspassports/

    Canadian EID
    http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/...nexee.shtml#e2


    As of July 31, 2010,*an EID (Equine Information Document) is required for all horses presented at a processing facility in Canada. The document will require an owner-signed declaration to verify the accuracy of the information and include details, dating back 6 months, on the animal's health and any administered medications. A number of medications are no longer permitted in horses being processed for human consumption. For complete details on the*EID, the list of non-permitted drugs, and equine description terms, visit the CFIA web site.

    [If you actually go to the link and click on the words 'CFIA web site', you'll get taken to the actual website. I'm sure you can't argue with the Canadian Food Inspection Agency's own website as a 'reliable, unbiased source', now can you?]

    http://www.albertahorseindustry.ca/i...010&Itemid=283

    IF you will look at this document, FOIA from Beltex of a USDA Owner/Shipper Certificate, [below] you will see that the person dropping the load of horses at the plant indicates what breed/type the horse is.... Again if the person filling out the form can't be expected to accurately know the horses breed, they can't then know that the horses are clean of banned drugs.

    http://www.kaufmanzoning.net/nov24/06-108-Records-A.pdf
    And racehorses are tattoo'd, and even if it wasn't legible, you still know that they probably are TB/STB or QH, and most likely have received Bute and other drugs banned for use in food animals.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #128
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    Oct. 22, 2009
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    Little Pond Farm
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    Even with a brande new plant, my guess is 90% of us horses have had bute which disqualifies.this meat for human consumption. I readexport to Mexico was up to 100horsrs in 2013 from the USA. There is something wrong with these numbers unless mustangs are being slaughteredin record numbers.



  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    I strongly agree that transportation, etc. need huge improvements, but really, I think data from 14 years ago shouldn't be used to judge how things may be done in 2013. I'm sure there must be more recent data; it would be interesting to compare to see if stronger enforcement is making the desired changes.

    I think that people stating that skinny horses don't go to slaughter; from the above quote some do, and this was from a period where there were plenty of heavier horses to be found at auctions. I'm sure that is not the perferred state of things, and it seems more auctions are refusing horses with seere welfare issues (per AA's website).

    As far as breed identification, the EU requires someone to fill out the declaration, and apparently this often is the trader. The trader can spend the time to make sure the drugs are out of the system, but that doesn't mean his identification of the breed is going to be any better after 6 months in a feedlot than it would be the day he/she purchased that animal.

    In addition, I keep reading how ALL TBs and SB's MUST have had bute and other chemicals, so if it is a TB or Standardbred on the form (if correctly IDed), it must have had drugs.....how many of each breed actually hit the track? What about all of those at the farms or those used as riding horses? I agree that those with tattoos are suspect, but the drama and exageration is a bit much (often from both sides).
    Most higher level performance horses have had Bute at some time in their life. I know all of the horses from the barns I've ever been at, have received some bute after a hard day of showing. Standing in a 10x10 stall and working hard all day, and no turn out can make them need the equivilant of an advil for people.

    The horses going to slaughter today are in even better shape than 15 yrs ago due to the number of people that are giving horses away for free. KB don't have to take the leftovers. They can pretty much find horses in good shape for free or close to it, on CL, or at auctions, due to the economy, and people losing their jobs.

    And regarding recent times...last yr a KB dumped 70 horses in the desert at the border at the Santa Teresa POE, because they were rejected due to a couple of horses having strangles. (If one horse on the trailer has strangles, they are all rejected.). There have been over 5000 horses a yr that were rejected at the border, dumped by killer buyers, and left to starve. For the record, these 70 that were dumped came from WI, which is certainly closer to Canada than here, yet they shipped them here. So having slaughter close, doesn't limit the transportation time. Even when Cavel was open, in IL, horses bought at Sugarcreek/New Holland, were routinely transported to Dallas Crowne and Beltex, near Dallas. Inj fact on a couple of those trips is when Baker was fined due to the driver continuing to drive thru 3 states after knowing that 2 horses were down in the trailer. He never stopped, and they were trampled to death. That fine (over 165k,) is still unpaid, and he never had his operations suspended. THAT's how well, we in the US enforce hunmane transport laws/slaughter abuse laws. Nothing has changed since then that would result in more stringent oversight.
    KB's have dumped more horses outside the POE than have been accounted for by individuals, or in large scale seizures for the yr. So how is slaughter actually helping the horses?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    This was predicted several years ago. At the time those anti slaughter folks claimed the nasty breeders were still flooding the market.

    The market has curtailed itself and severly dropped.

    Example...American Saddlebreds...stallion reports 2010 just over 1000 filed. 2011 was just over 450 and many of those were for ONE mare..

    Quarter Horse have also stated reduced by 30+% for stallion reports. Those reports are necessary for breeders to fill or it will cost them a LOT of money to register foals

    TB breedings are down and some states now have their facing groups refusing to take entries from trainers who have dumped horses knowing they are going to slaughter.

    The anti slaughter groups refuse to go on tours. As for ranchers...please tell me what is KIND and LOVING about a rancher who turns the old horse out on those thousand of acres...Dry winter...no snow to eat (which is not great for a horse anyway especially when they have not been bred as wildies...therefore small and able to subsist on limited feed. Or...they now are STARVING and in a weakened state are brought down by coyotes, cougars, wolves etc and eaten ALIVE.. Slaugter EVEN if two bolts are used is over in 7-10 seconds. Eating aliver can take up to TEN MINUTES... with the horse SCREAMING.

    Get the picture....

    Jenn..you need to come out west. Cattle are brought up to the ranch for feeding during the winter. They don't just "go where the deer and the antelope play" on thousands of acres when it is 40 F below.

    A quick death for an old horse is kinder than losing weight...suffering the cold and trying to find dried grass under feet of snow.
    Surely most of those ranchers know how to shoot a gun, and with thousands of acres can either bury one, compost it, or put it in a bone pile or use whoever they use to dispose of cattle that die on the property.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blkarab View Post
    .

    I believe that a well regulated, US facility is the answer. As far as a market for the meat...most goes into dog and cat food or is rendered. Very little is sold for human consumption.
    None goes into commercial pet food in the US. The majority of US horses that are slaughtered are slaughtered for human consumption. Rendering companies take already dead horses, or leftovers from the SH that slaughter for human consumption.
    It's apparent from the quoted sentence that you are not really educated on horse slaughter, and might want to do some research.
    And even when SH were open in the US, they often transported further away. See a post of mine from above about the 70 dumped horses from WI. Canada is certainly closer than Mexico, yet they shipped them to here.
    Re- those starving horses in pastures and owners having no way to dispose of them...bull. A bullet is cheap. Composting is free if you can't bury them.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #132
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    Jun. 29, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    If horse meat is so bad for you, why is Taco Bell now featuring it in all of its tacos and burritos?
    Fairfax: is this one of your peeps? Since I'm pretty sure this person isn't joking, and based on the "WTH?" factor of this statement, "7arabians" seems to have all the qualifications to be a member of your fan club.

    But, just to clear things up for you, "7arabians"; I'm pretty sure that Taco Bell isn't 'featuring' horsemeat based on their attempt at damage control:

    "Taco Bell is the latest restaurant chain to acknowledge that its food has been adulterated with horse meat, yanking a variety of ground beef products from its three British outlets and issuing an apology to its patrons Friday."

    Wow...just...wow.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #133
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    Oct. 19, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    But no inspections, no running; they have to have USDA inspectors there.
    As far as handling of the horses, etc., that is where people have a chance to make a difference; fight for laws that cover those things, demand follow-up with complaints, etc.}

    {Everyones excuse to the above is "but we tried it before and it didn't work perfectly, so it won't this time either!!!!!!" I find it ironic with horse people that that is an acceptable excuse; we won't ever use that excuse with our animals (Fluffy wouldn't do it or is slow to make changes, so I'm going to give up because it will never get better no matter what".....um, yeah, right).
    There is a difference between working and working perfectly. I dont think anyone is asking for perfection. I think those for and opposed are asking for humane treatment and the history just isnt there.

    In 2008 there were reports of not enough inspectors in meat processing plants. That didnt improve over the last few years and with sequester looming, adding more inspectors is probably not top on the list even with the addition of horse processing plants. Government is going to be focusing on hot button topics like the manning of control towers at airports, TSA and many many more looming issues.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abercrombie View Post
    Fairfax: is this one of your peeps? Since I'm pretty sure this person isn't joking, and based on the "WTH?" factor of this statement, "7arabians" seems to have all the qualifications to be a member of your fan club.

    But, just to clear things up for you, "7arabians"; I'm pretty sure that Taco Bell isn't 'featuring' horsemeat based on their attempt at damage control:

    "Taco Bell is the latest restaurant chain to acknowledge that its food has been adulterated with horse meat, yanking a variety of ground beef products from its three British outlets and issuing an apology to its patrons Friday."

    Wow...just...wow.
    Wasnt it Taco Bell that last year was caught not having enough beef in its beef



  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by casper324 View Post
    Even with a brande new plant, my guess is 90% of us horses have had bute which disqualifies.this meat for human consumption. I readexport to Mexico was up to 100horsrs in 2013 from the USA. There is something wrong with these numbers unless mustangs are being slaughteredin record numbers.
    According to the Canadian buyers only 10% test positive for bute. There will be a new test introduced in April that will be able to give a positive. They are also stating that there is evidence that horses that previously tested positive do NOT give the same test as low as 120 days after

    As I stated...the majority of the horses (89,000 to Canada in 2011) did NOT test positive...so that would still be around 80,000 free and clear.

    The poster 7 is correct with his/her statement that much of this was started by the RARA's in Europe and it is also supported by the HSUS. Wayne and his wife were there last spring spreading their mantra and also spreading the dollars

    There is NO reason for horsemeat to be subjected to more tests than other edible meats pork chicken beef, lamb etc.
    Specialty meats such as ostrich have 1/10th the number of tests.

    Just stating that since a horse is QH etc it MUST be a probable is NOT scientific evidence.

    The issue with the horsemeat in Europe is NOT a big scandal over there OTHER THAN the reason the meat was improperly marked.

    According to Fort MacLeod...all shipments are back on track and will start again tomorrow.



  16. #136
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    If the majority of the population is against horse slaughter, as they are of the rounding up and put in holding pens hundreds of wild mustangs and petition upon petition has been submitted to both county, state and federal gov'ts, why is it still being pushed through? My next question is if a reason posted for by pro-slaughter groups is getting rid of excess animals and animals that are starving, why is just horses that are targeted?


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  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by andylover View Post
    If the majority of the population is against horse slaughter, as they are of the rounding up and put in holding pens hundreds of wild mustangs and petition upon petition has been submitted to both county, state and federal gov'ts, why is it still being pushed through? My next question is if a reason posted for by pro-slaughter groups is getting rid of excess animals and animals that are starving, why is just horses that are targeted?
    the majority of the population does not give a rip.

    th majority of the population would result in something like 200 Million signatures. I do not think I have seen these amounts anywhere.


    It is being pushed through because the majority is not against it.

    oh, and sometimes the people we voted in charge understand that things need to be done, even if John Q. Public thinks he does not want it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  18. #138
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    Here's more recent documentation of how slaughter horses are treated in New Mexico. March, 2012. The abuse documented would not be any different if the slaughterhouse was in the U.S. It is just the nature of the industry.
    http://animalsangels.org/images/stor...lunas%20nm.pdf
    "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptownevt View Post
    Here's more recent documentation of how slaughter horses are treated in New Mexico. March, 2012. The abuse documented would not be any different if the slaughterhouse was in the U.S. It is just the nature of the industry.
    http://animalsangels.org/images/stor...lunas%20nm.pdf
    you know New Mexico is not a different country, right!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #140
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    A 30 month study of the horse slaughter industry from 2007 to 2009. http://animalsangels.org/images/stor...hort_paper.pdf
    "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp


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