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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    Who will buy USA horses for consumption? I think that ship sailed.
    The very same people who now buy them through Canada and Mexico....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  2. #42
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    I thought the EU was changing their requirements sometime in 2013. Requirements that could not be met unless we changed our whole industry.


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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    They found bute in a very small percentage and so small a residue as not being a safety risk.
    Just because we can test for residues, you have to read past that to what that testing shows.

    There is a bit of a problem for the consumer, there is going to be more and more people and less and less to eat and I expect soon even the USA won't be turning their nose up at horse meat either, when there is not enough meat to go around.
    Yes, meat is important for human health, all that vegan propaganda is wrong.
    While being a vegan may work for some, if they eat right and take many supplements, most humans need a varied diet to be and stay healthy and some animal proteins are an important part of that.
    I have read the same about residual drugs. So little as to not be a problem.

    Unless I was starving, I don't want to eat horse meat. I'm sure I did one time in Mexico and all I could think of was wondering what color the horse was. A Paint? An Appy? Bay?

    Yes, you do need a balanced diet. Hubby is a hunter and says that you can eat wild rabbit but must supp with protein. You can figuratively starve to death eating wild rabbit and not getting enough protein.
    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!


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  4. #44
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    Yes, you can rationalize why horse slaughter is ok. I guess that same rationalization might also work for the homeless, unemployed, disabled or mentally damaged. Yeah -- get the wine! For me it will never be ok and they are not food. They are noble creatures that have served people for 100's of years and still do and that's the reward? Geez! If you want equine slaughter and can live with it -- FINE! No, I don't have all the answers. It wouldn't matter how discerning breeders are or if slaughter was approved and up and running in the US, there would STILL be neglected, abused, and otherwise unwanted horses. People are the problem! As far as my information -- it came from various sources, the last one being Tippi Hedren and The Roar Foundation -- hardly a PETA source. The reason behind this is a profit for someone -- nothing else. It's a horrible idea and disgusting way to treat a horse! You think it's ok to take a foal from it's dam and sold while the dam is killed -- how morbid! Yes, I'm against any horse slaughter and no, I don't have all the answers -- but slaughter houses is not it!
    PennyG


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  5. #45
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    Were you aware that the nobel war horse and the plow horse were also eaten in Europe. It was a final end. It is only in the past fifty years where we have too many warm and fuzzy Trigger moments that we move into our condo view of how agriculture works.

    In Europe and Asia, horses are also food.

    Slaughter is only ONE piece of the puzzle. Of course PETA and HSUS want to demonize the breeders...all their fault.

    It is...to some extent...however the demand has disappeared...first...to expensive due to real estate costs...then financial bubble burst.

    In Canada, the mare is not separated from the foal..as a matter of fact they are out on 640 acres (Fort MacLeod plant) and the foal is weaned at 5 months.

    Sadly, you are recycling old stories with little validity. Plants have been closed for years in the U.S. however there are still groups who claim it is going on right now....ah yes..Tippi./...as relevant as Doris Day...She is an animal rights activist...has been since she starred in the movie Marnie

    http://www.beliefnet.com/Inspiration...vists.aspx?p=7



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKR View Post
    Yes, you can rationalize why horse slaughter is ok. I guess that same rationalization might also work for the homeless, unemployed, disabled or mentally damaged. Yeah -- get the wine! For me it will never be ok and they are not food. They are noble creatures that have served people for 100's of years and still do and that's the reward? Geez! If you want equine slaughter and can live with it -- FINE! No, I don't have all the answers. It wouldn't matter how discerning breeders are or if slaughter was approved and up and running in the US, there would STILL be neglected, abused, and otherwise unwanted horses. People are the problem! As far as my information -- it came from various sources, the last one being Tippi Hedren and The Roar Foundation -- hardly a PETA source. The reason behind this is a profit for someone -- nothing else. It's a horrible idea and disgusting way to treat a horse! You think it's ok to take a foal from it's dam and sold while the dam is killed -- how morbid! Yes, I'm against any horse slaughter and no, I don't have all the answers -- but slaughter houses is not it!
    PennyG
    If you were hungry enough you would eat them.
    Why are horses more noble that anything else. I love horses, Treat yours right and that is your responsibility.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKR View Post
    For me it will never be ok and they are not food. They are noble creatures that have served people for 100's of years and still do and that's the reward?
    Of course they are food, inasmuch as any animal can be. They started their association with humans as game meat, then as raised meat, then as a working animal who, once unable to work, became meat.
    And they were consumed in many English-speaking countries until pretty recently, certainly well within "100's of years"; they were just seen as dual-purpose animals, work and meat.

    The whole pet/companion designation is very recent as far as the human/horse relationship goes, as is the strong taboo against eating horse in some cultures. Other cultures of course have never had such a taboo.

    Also venison is noble too. And delish.


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  8. #48
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    OP, you're a bit behind the eight ball on this one. Looks like the USDA is getting ready to approve a plant in New Mexico. With the scandal in the EU and the restrictions that go into effect this summer, I really don't understand who is the potential market though.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/01/bu...lant.html?_r=0
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  9. #49
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    The 'Scandal' isn't about the horse meat, it's about fraud.

    And you might be surprised, but the attitude seems to be more in the line of 'ok, so it's horse, just label it correct, I'll eat it'
    It really does not seem to be an outrage about eating horse, but about being cheated.

    and now that probably a great many people realize that the other red meat is there....it might actually open markets.

    besides, Europe isn't the only place who eats horse.
    As the US is not the only place raising horses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.


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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    I thought the EU was changing their requirements sometime in 2013. Requirements that could not be met unless we changed our whole industry.
    How quickly everyone forgets, and I thought MY memory was failing. Not as bad as I thought...
    Effective July 2013, the EU are demanding that all horses slaughtered for human consumption at EU-certified plants in countries that export horse meat to Europe must have a veterinary record listing all medications they have been given during their lifetime.



  11. #51
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    Cattle are noble creatures who have served mankind for years too. They helped tame the West just as much as horses. They pulled our wagons westward, pulled the plow that farmed our land, as well as providing meat and milk. They are smart, have personalities, and make great pets / companion animals, yet we have no problems eating them.

    The focus should be on designing specie specific slaughter plants and trying to make the whole process from start to finish more humane. It's the process that needs revamping for horses, not the end result. Dead is dead, even as a vegetarian I can't understand why anyone would want to waste all that animal protein?


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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fourbeats View Post
    Cattle are noble creatures who have served mankind for years too. They helped tame the West just as much as horses. They pulled our wagons westward, pulled the plow that farmed our land, as well as providing meat and milk. They are smart, have personalities, and make great pets / companion animals, yet we have no problems eating them.

    The focus should be on designing specie specific slaughter plants and trying to make the whole process from start to finish more humane. It's the process that needs revamping for horses, not the end result. Dead is dead, even as a vegetarian I can't understand why anyone would want to waste all that animal protein?
    They already have a plant designed just for horses, ready to be opened.
    The USDA has already started training inspectors for horse slaughter again.
    They are ready to give them the green light to proceed, for what the reports say.
    Where? In Roswell, NM.

    Some european countries, where animal rights extremists are so active and keep passing all kinds of goofy laws, as they try here, are not the only ones that buy that meat.

    Seriously, why would anyone think they can tell others what to eat?
    NO ONE is pushing for laws to make all eat horses.
    Why should anyone think they have any right to make laws to keep others from doing so?

    I sure hope some of those vegans don't get a law passed to make all eat soybeans, because I am allergic to them.


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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    Thousands of horses still shipped across the borders to Canada and Mexico even when we had plants processing in the U.S. Opening plants again will not stop horses being shipped across the borders for slaughter.
    Nonsense, they will go where it is cost effective to ship them. This is ridiculous.
    "When written in Chinese, the word "crisis" is composed of two characters, one represents danger, the other represents opportunity."

    John F Kennedy



  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    OP, you're a bit behind the eight ball on this one. Looks like the USDA is getting ready to approve a plant in New Mexico. With the scandal in the EU and the restrictions that go into effect this summer, I really don't understand who is the potential market though.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/01/bu...lant.html?_r=0
    Pet food market most likely. It would be a good thing in my view as long as the detoxifying process is strickly adhered to. Maybe also the old fashioned glue market, probably much safer and less toxic to all. I could foresee a great bit of use out of the animals in terms of leather and hair, but you have to get over, or ignore the hysterics. Hopefully we will all regain out sanity soon.
    "When written in Chinese, the word "crisis" is composed of two characters, one represents danger, the other represents opportunity."

    John F Kennedy


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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calamber View Post
    Nonsense, they will go where it is cost effective to ship them. This is ridiculous.
    And YOU already know it will be more cost effective to ship within the states? Are you sure about that? Canada is closer to me than NM. In fact Simon's in MN shipped all the way to TX instead of IL back in the day. IL 7 hours, TX 16+ hours. Must have been more cost effective to ship to TX it seems. Why? I do not know.



  16. #56
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    Bluey, are you still spouting that vegetarian diet is bad for you stuff? I thought we resolved that a couple of years ago.

    http://www.eatright.org/About/Content.aspx?id=8357
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  17. #57
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    Originally Posted by jenm
    Thousands of horses still shipped across the borders to Canada and Mexico even when we had plants processing in the U.S. Opening plants again will not stop horses being shipped across the borders for slaughter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Calamber View Post
    Nonsense, they will go where it is cost effective to ship them. This is ridiculous.
    Not nonsense, not ridiculous.
    This chart linked below [and many others available], you can see that when we had open plants in the US, horse still shipped to slaughter in Canadian EU plants, and less so to Mexican EU plants.

    http://www.awionline.org/content/hor...ter-statistics

    This one shows the numbers from 1989 to 2007, you can see huge fluctuations in the number Canada processed even while the US hummed along slaughtering as well

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&gbv=2&ct=clnk

    Has the number of those slaughtered in both places gone up since the EU Plants in the US closed? Sure.
    But it is not nonsense to say that when we had plants open here, they did still slaughter across the borders in both Canada and Mexico.

    Ya' gotta' remember the US is a big country, a new plant in OK, TX, or NV for example, aren't closer to those of us on the East coast than Canada.

    It's not that anyone is trying to suggest people should/should not eat what they want... but the EU and the consumers are asking that the meat be safe and traceable, which it presently isn't.
    I find it funny that so many who are pro are ignoring the basic facts of what the EU has been saying they will require re: passports/drugs

    Originally Posted by sunridge1
    I thought the EU was changing their requirements sometime in 2013. Requirements that could not be met unless we changed our whole industry.
    How quickly everyone forgets, and I thought MY memory was failing. Not as bad as I thought...
    Effective July 2013, the EU are demanding that all horses slaughtered for human consumption at EU-certified plants in countries that export horse meat to Europe must have a veterinary record listing all medications they have been given during their lifetime.


    It is not about what RaRAs want, it's about what the governing body who oversees this product wants.
    Last edited by Angela Freda; Mar. 1, 2013 at 02:23 PM.


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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Bluey, are you still spouting that vegetarian diet is bad for you stuff? I thought we resolved that a couple of years ago.

    http://www.eatright.org/About/Content.aspx?id=8357
    Vegan

    and yes, my mom said it, too. and she's a nurse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  19. #59
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    Pet food market makes sense. What health effects would bute, etc have without a withdrawal time? Not that that non-premium pet foods care.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Vegan

    and yes, my mom said it, too. and she's a nurse.
    If you'd said she as a nutritionist, that would carry more weight. Just like vets, doctor and nursing education doesn't focus on nutrition. Read the abstract. There are plenty of studies that show a plant based diet is healthier than a meat based diet. The plants don't have lobbyists though.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/16/he...chen.html?_r=0
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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