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  1. #521
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    Well, that should bring plans to open some plants to a screeching halt. Of course, that doesn't apply to U.S. horses slaughtered elsewhere out of the country, but it's a start.

    Now, I will acknowledge that it is possible to slaughter horses relatively humanely and that there is a high probability that the successful kills greatly outnumber the unsuccessful ones in most if not all of the EU run plants. My problem is that I haven't heard any of the prominent pro people at least acknowledge prior/present problems with the statement that yes, there is still room for improvement and that the plants are responding to this.

    Sorry, but waving pom-poms and stating that the plants are 100% wonderful somehow doesn't quite do it for me.

    As for the bute, why don't we suddenly start giving it to all the cattle in the feedlot and see how that goes over with the inspectors?



  2. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    Well, that should bring plans to open some plants to a screeching halt. Of course, that doesn't apply to U.S. horses slaughtered elsewhere out of the country, but it's a start.

    Now, I will acknowledge that it is possible to slaughter horses relatively humanely and that there is a high probability that the successful kills greatly outnumber the unsuccessful ones in most if not all of the EU run plants. My problem is that I haven't heard any of the prominent pro people at least acknowledge prior/present problems with the statement that yes, there is still room for improvement and that the plants are responding to this.

    Sorry, but waving pom-poms and stating that the plants are 100% wonderful somehow doesn't quite do it for me.

    As for the bute, why don't we suddenly start giving it to all the cattle in the feedlot and see how that goes over with the inspectors?
    Here's one of those wonderful employees...http://shedrowconfessions.wordpress....compassionate/
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  3. #523
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    Jun. 19, 2011
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    Sadly most of you are fixated on E.U. There are orders from ASIA...totalling 100,000 TONNES.

    Angela and her group seem to think if they ignore ASIA and its LACK OF PASSPORT that it will just''''disappear'''



  4. #524
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    Angela, can I be in your "group"? Please, please?

    Here's the horrific, unedited video of one of those wonderful, humane slaughter workers who will be staffing and supplying the plant in Roswell. Warning, very graphic.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/9pqiuwdaqb...%20message.mp4
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  5. #525
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    Publicly reported convictions going back 17 years reveals that:


    75 clergymen have been convicted of, or pleaded guilty to criminal child molestation charges since the Gilbert Authe case in Louisiana in 1985.
    Half of these (38) were Roman Catholic priests, the rest Methodists, Pentecostals, Baptist Ministers, Episcopal priests, etc.

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_p...f_sexual_abuse

    Susan Vaughan Smith of Union, S.C. was convicted on July 22, 1995, and sentenced to life in prison for murdering her two sons, Michael Daniel Smith, 3, and 14-month-old Alexander Tyler Smith.

    http://crime.about.com/od/murder/a/susan_smith.htm

    This does not mean ALL women who have children will kill them
    This does not mean ALL priests will sexually abuse children

    In ANY system..it is never going to be perfect. THAT is why we have laws. When individuals abuse their position or power be is slaughter or counselling or parenting, we have a process to convict them if they are guilty.

    A slaughter plant can not guaranty that ALL employees will behave in a certain manner...the same as any other employer...

    Laura K..you are from Kentucky...does that mean ALL who live there are inbred, marry their sisters/brothers and only have grade three education?



  6. #526
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    No Fairfax, I'm not FROM Kentucky. I presently live in Kentucky.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  7. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Angela, can I be in your "group"? Please, please?
    Let's see... is that my so seekrit I didn't know it existed RaRa group, my horse people who don't have horses group, or my 'research is my middle name' group?

    Silly, silly Fairfax, how soon you forget we went over the ASIAN market a while ago... I looked up for you the Japanese requirements for drugs, and asked you for your inside info on the other Asian countries requirements.
    That is, I assume you know their requirements for drug residues/testing for imported meats since you insist they don't give a flip... so please, do share, with links. TIA

    Please pretend we haven't had this conversation so I can show everyone the regulations the Japanese government has in place in which they list the myriad of commonly-used-in horses-in-the-US-drugs they do not want in their imported meat... please.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #528
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    I thought that the Japanese had such strict restrictions that they more or less have their own private breeders raising horses to their specifications, then shipping them over live at a certain age so they can "finish them off" before slaughtering them. I believe they also raise their own breed of horses to slaughter.

    BTW, I really wonder if these people (the prospective U.S. plants) have actually thought this out as to who exactly is going to buy all of this prime meat. I may be wrong, but I believe the EU owns and runs their own plants, and MIGHT NOT have been in the market of non-EU owned produced meat from these plants. From what I have read about Sue, she does not seem to be either a deep thinker.



  9. #529
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    And here we go with the extremist animal rights propaganda meme. This is why we can never have a cogent discussion about slaughter. Anyone who wants to have a reasonable discussion is forced out by the "they're coming to take away our rights black helicopter crowd."

    Anyone is is not pro-slaughter is branded as a RARA. Go ahead, talk to yourselves then.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Angela, can I be in your "group"? Please, please?

    Here's the horrific, unedited video of one of those wonderful, humane slaughter workers who will be staffing and supplying the plant in Roswell. Warning, very graphic.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/9pqiuwdaqb...%20message.mp4
    You know what, that is roses and daisys compared to that Russian one.
    This guy is an idiot, but there is nothing gorey about the shot, its clean and the horse is dead. I would rather see all the slaughter plants for horses do it like that. No bolt, no shot gun, No CLUBBING.. sorry cannot get over that.
    This video is senseless in itself yes but the method of putting a horse down like that is quick humane and accurate!.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    I thought that the Japanese had such strict restrictions that they more or less have their own private breeders raising horses to their specifications, then shipping them over live at a certain age so they can "finish them off" before slaughtering them. I believe they also raise their own breed of horses to slaughter.
    I believe they do both, breed and import: on the hoof and processed

    The general requirements and standards are set by MHLW and apply to all types of foods including imported foods. Imported foods that do not meet these requirements will not be allowed entry. These requirements and standards place the primary emphasis on ingredient and manufacturing standards. The Import Notification form should indicate additives,*preservatives, coloring, spices or flavorings. In addition, a certificate with detailed descriptions of the ingredients (names of the chemical compounds, chemical names and international index numbers of the colors,
    etc.) and brief processing outline can be attached to each shipment in order to expedite import procedures.
    Details of food importing procedure may be viewed on the MHLW website
    at: http://www.mhlw.go.jp/english/topics...edfoods/1.html.


    A full list of the registered laboratories is found on the following MHLW
    website: http://www.mhlw.go.jp/topics/yunyu/5/dl/a3.pdf.


    The JAS laws and outlines of animal and plant quarantine regulations can be viewed by choosing the link to “Guide to the JAS System for
    Agricultural and Forest Products” on the following JETRO website:
    http://www.jetro.go.jp/en/market/regulations/index.html.

    Those on organic foods and other quality- based food labeling regulations are located on the following MAFF website:
    http://www.maff.go.jp/soshiki/syokuh...abel/index.htm.

    Information on the Japanese organic standards with background on the export agreements with Japan is available at the website
    of the Agricultural Marketing Service (AMS), USDA
    at: http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams....plateN&topNav=
    NationalOrganicProgram&leftNav=NationalOrganicProg ram&page=NOPExportArrangementswithJ

    http://gain.fas.usda.gov/Recent%20GA..._8-19-2009.pdf



    Regulatory Framework on Veterinary Drug Residues in Food

    Veterinary drug is defined as any substance that is used for medical treatment of animals including livestock and aquaculture fish and shellfish. The veterinary drugs used in animal production include anthelminthics, chemically-synthetic antimicrobials, and antibiotics. In the Japanese regulatory framework the Food Safety Commission conducts toxicological evaluation as a part of risk assessment under the Food Safety Basic Law. Under the Food Sanitation Law the MHLW establishes the tolerances for residues that may remain in foods as result of the veterinary drug use during animal production with reference to the conclusion of toxicological evaluation from the FSC.

    The tolerance is normally expressed as Maximum Residue Limit (MRL). The Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fishery (MAFF) authorizes the production of veterinary drugs upon the request and establishes standards for applications of the drug under the Pharmaceutical Affairs Law

    a) Residue Standards under the Food Sanitation Law
    The Food Sanitation Law prescribes that foods may not contain antibiotics. It also prescribes that meat, milk, eggs, and fish/shellfish may not contain chemically-synthetic antimicrobials. These provisions were established from the viewpoint of human public health, considering safety of veterinary drugs themselves and drug-resistance in micro-organisms, which may result from antibiotics use of these drugs.

    Since 1995 the MHLW has been establishing residue standards for veterinary drugs. The standards for 30 veterinary drugs including antibiotics, anthelminthics, and synthetic hormone are currently enforced.

    The residue standards like MRLs for veterinary drugs are established in a procedure similar to those for pesticide residues in food. The FSC conducts safety evaluations of the veterinary drug based upon the information from the required toxicity studies such as chronic study, teratotoxicity study, and carcinogenicity study. When the No-Observed-Adverse-Effect-Level (NOAEL) is established, the Acceptable Daily Intake (ADI) is obtained by applying safety factors to the NOAEL.

    When the ADI is established the MHLW proposes draft MRLs to the Pharmaceutical Affairs and Food Sanitation Council, an Advisory body to the Minister of Health, Labour and Welfare, based upon the result of residue study in the authorized application of the veterinary drug, and taking into account the Codex standards as well as residue standards in foreign countries. The Theoretical Maximum Daily Intake (TMDI) or Estimated Maximum Daily Intake (EDI) is obtained using the drafted MRLs and the food intake data from the national nutrition survey. When the TMDI or EDI is found to be less than the ADI and that there will be no health problem associated with the residue below the MRLs, the advisory body adopts the MRLs.

    When a substance is found display carcinogenicity together with genotoxicity the ADI for the substance cannot be established. In this case the tolerance for the residue from the substance is established as "Not Detected (ND)" at the level of detection (LOD) in the official analytical method.

    b) Control of Veterinary Drug Residue in Food

    The MHLW has a national monitoring programme on residues in animal origin foods. The purpose of the monitoring programme is to confirm the compliance of products in the marketplace. The quarantine stations under the jurisdiction of the MHLW monitors imported products and the local governments monitor the products in the domestic markets. The tests on veterinary drug residues are performed by the official laboratories in quarantine stations and local governments.

    In October 2003 the MHLW proposed the first draft of the provisional MRLs for the positive list system and requests for the comments on the draft[84]. The provisional MRLs for 647 agricultural chemicals including veterinary drugs are proposed. Around 1,200 comments from domestic and foreign parties were received. The MHLW is going to publish the second draft of the provisional MRLs, incorporated with some comments to the first draft, in Summer 2004 and to request comments on the draft from the foreign governments, consumers and industry sectors. The MHLW will also notify the proposed MRLs to the World Trade Organization (WTO) in accordance with the WTO SPS agreement early next year.

    [81] Food Safety Commission; http://www.fsc.go.jp/english/index.html
    [82] Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare (MHLW); Revision of Food Sanitation Law (in Japanese), http://www.mhlw.go.jp/topics/bukyoku...sei/index.html
    [83] MHLW; Results on Monitoring the Residues in Animal Origin Foods in 2002 (in Japanese), http://www.mhlw.go.jp/topics/yunyu/1-8/index.html
    [84] MHLW; Request for Comments on the First Draft of Provisional Maximum Residue Limits for Agricultural Chemicals in Foods, 28th October 2003, http://www.mhlw.go.jp/english/topics/mrls/index.html
    [85] Joint FAO/WHO Expert Consultation on Food Additives (JECFA); Evaluation of Certain Food Additives and Contaminants - Forty-forth report of the Joint FAO/WHO Expert Consultation on Food Additives, 1995
    [86] Food and Drug Administration (FDA); Food Additives: Threshold of Regulation for Substances Used in Food Contact Articles; Final Rule, 21 CFR Part 5, et al, 1995
    [87] European Commission; Proposal for a Regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council on maximum residue levels of pesticides in products and animal origin, COM(2003) 117 final, 2003/0052(COD)
    [88] MHLW; Residues of Nitrofurans Metabolites in Powdered Egg from Belgium and India, 27th June 2003 (in Japanese), http://www.mhlw.go.jp/houdou/2003/06/h0627-3.html




    http://www.fao.org/docrep/008/y5723e/y5723e0r.htm



    Effective May 29, 2006, the MHLW implemented new regulations on the permissible MRLs of agricultural chemicals in food. In establishing these new regulations, the MHLW supplemented approximately 10,000 already existing official MRLs of agricultural chemicals with seven hundred and fifty eight “provisional” MRLs9. Together, these MRLs make up the Japanese "positive list."10 All foods entering Japan are subject to regulation under the positive
    list system.11 Foods containing residues exceeding the MRL levels identified on the positive list are prohibited from being sold or used as food in Japan because they violate the Food Sanitation Law.12 Failure to comply with these MRLs could result in a product’s being banned or the exporter incurring significant expense and time delays while trying to clear the product for importation.13


    Similarly, veterinary drugs once approved for use in Japan must be reassessed every six years, including a review by the MHLW on existing MRLs for these substances.25

    Ultimately, the responsibility for compliance with the Japanese positive list rests with the importer of the food products into Japan. Generally, companies use a local subsidiary or other third party as the importer of record. Accordingly, the responsibilities of the exporting company are secondary. Nevertheless, it is likely that importers will require the exporters/manufacturers to provide evidence or warranties regarding compliance with the positive list.41

    Another option available to U.S. exporters is to have samples of products tested by any of the MHLW official or registered laboratories within the U.S.51 Products imported from the United States do not need to be tested upon arrival to Japan if an analytical certificate from an MHLW-approved laboratory accompanies the shipment.52

    Pre-testing should be reserved for products that have a higher risk of noncompliance with the positive list based on the information gathered.


    EXHIBIT B

    CHEMICALS FOR WHICH NO RESIDUES MAY BE DETECTED


    2
    4
    5-T
    Amitrole
    Captafol
    Carbadox including QCA
    Chloramphenicol
    Chlorpromazine

    Coumafos/Coumaphos
    Cyhexatin and Azocyclotin
    Daminozide
    Diethylstilbestrol
    Dimetridazole
    Metronidazole
    Nitrofurans
    Propham
    Ronidazole


    EXHIBIT C

    AGRICULTURAL CHEMICALS WITH MRLS BELOW THE UNIFORM LIMIT

    Abamectin (0.008 for A, 0.005 for L)
    Fenamiphos (0.005 for L)
    Altrenogest (0.003 for L)
    Fenpyroximate (0.005 for L)
    Amoxicylin (0.008) for L)
    Fentrothion (0.002 for L)
    Ampicillin (0.009 for L)
    Fipronil (0.002 for A)
    Azoxystrobin (0.008 for L)
    Flumethrin (0.005 for L)
    Benzylpenicillin (0.004 for L)
    Heptachlor (0.006 for L)
    Betamethasone (0.0003 for L)
    Heptachlor (0.006 for L)
    Bilanafos (0.004 for A)
    Methidathion (0.001 for L)
    Brotizolam (0.001 for L)
    Metoclopramide (0.005 for L)
    Carazolol (0.001 for L)
    Lindane (?-BHC) (0.002) for A)
    Clenbuterol (ND for L)
    Nafcillin (0.005 for L)
    Dexamethasone (ND for L)
    Norgestomet (0.0001 for L)
    Diflufenican (0.002 for A)
    Prednisolone (0.0007 for L)
    Diphenylamine (0.0004 for L)
    Propoxycarbazone (0.004 for L)
    Dipropyl isoinchomeronate (0.004 for L)
    Sulfosulfuron (0.005 for L)
    Doramectin (0.005 for L)
    Tefluthrin (0.001 for L)
    Emamecti benzoate (0.0005 for L)
    Terbufos (0.005 for A)
    Endosulfan (0.004 for L)
    Triazophos (ND for A)
    Endrin (ND for A, 0.005 for L)
    Tribuphos (0.002 for L)
    Ethoprophos (0.005 for A)
    Trichlorfon (0.004 for L)
    Ethylene dibromide (EDB) (ND for A)
    Trifluralin (0.001 for L)
    Etyprostontromethamine (0.001 for L)
    Zeranol (0.002 for L)

    These figures are in ppms. A = Agricultural products; L= livestock products; and ND = no
    detection.



    http://nationalaglawcenter.org/asset...sitivelist.pdf


    Table of MRLs in Foods
    Food:
    Horse, muscle

    IVERMECTIN 0.01*
    http://www.m5.ws001.squarestart.ne.j...hp?f_inq=14400

    List of foods
    http://www.m5.ws001.squarestart.ne.j...n/foodlist.php

    You can search all kinds of Agricultural chemicals or foods via this link
    http://www.m5.ws001.squarestart.ne.j...on/search.html



    Meat and Meat Products

    Fresh, prepared, or preserved meat and meat products going into Japan from the United States must be accompanied by U.S. Department of Agriculture, FSIS Form 9290-1 “Certificate to Export to Japan” and FSIS Form 9060-5 (formally MP Form 130) “Meat and Poultry Export Certificate of Wholesomeness.” These certificates are issued at the slaughtering or processing facility by a qualified USDA meat and poultry inspector. Export requirements are described on the following FSIS Export Library webpage: http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Regulations...ents/index.asp.

    http://gain.fas.usda.gov/Recent%20GA..._8-19-2009.pdf



    Report Highlights:
    The Japanese Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare has announced draft changes to the MRLs for Azoxystrobin, Ivermectin and Praziquantel, and the intention to approve Butyraldehyde for use as a flavoring. Comments are being accepted until April 24, 2007.


    Attachment 2-1 Ivermectin1 (antiparasitic)

    Commodity Draft MRL (ppm) Current MRL (ppm)

    Horse, muscle 0.01 0.01

    Attachment 2-2 Praziquantel (antiparasitic)

    Commodity Draft MRL (ppm) Current MRL (ppm)
    Cattle, muscle none (default)1 0.02
    Pig, muscle none (default) 0.02
    Terrestrial mammals other than above,
    muscle 0.3 0.05



    http://www.fas.usda.gov/gainfiles/200704/146280771.pdf



    Veterinary drugs.

    **Documents according to the toxicity study guidelines for given in Section 4 of the attachment to the "practices for documents on veterinary drugs,"- Director General, Food Safety and Consumer Affairs Bureau, MAFF, Japan, Notification No. 12-33, March 31, 2000. These documents can be replaced by documents prepared according to the VICH guideline for safety.
    **The Notice is available in English on http://www.mhlw.go.jp/english/topics...idue/dl/03.pdf

    from: http://www.mhlw.go.jp/english/topics...due/index.html


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #532
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    Lexington, KY
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    Sannois, your right as far as the death. The guy is a total asshat though...that's the horrific part. Not the death. It was quick.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  13. #533
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    Greenville, MI,
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Sannois, your right as far as the death. The guy is a total asshat though...that's the horrific part. Not the death. It was quick.
    Totally Agree Laura!!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  14. #534
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    Dec. 14, 2003
    Location
    Southern New Jersey
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    371

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Publicly reported convictions going back 17 years reveals that:


    75 clergymen have been convicted of, or pleaded guilty to criminal child molestation charges since the Gilbert Authe case in Louisiana in 1985.
    Half of these (38) were Roman Catholic priests, the rest Methodists, Pentecostals, Baptist Ministers, Episcopal priests, etc.

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_p...f_sexual_abuse

    Susan Vaughan Smith of Union, S.C. was convicted on July 22, 1995, and sentenced to life in prison for murdering her two sons, Michael Daniel Smith, 3, and 14-month-old Alexander Tyler Smith.

    http://crime.about.com/od/murder/a/susan_smith.htm

    This does not mean ALL women who have children will kill them
    This does not mean ALL priests will sexually abuse children

    In ANY system..it is never going to be perfect. THAT is why we have laws. When individuals abuse their position or power be is slaughter or counselling or parenting, we have a process to convict them if they are guilty.

    A slaughter plant can not guaranty that ALL employees will behave in a certain manner...the same as any other employer...

    Laura K..you are from Kentucky...does that mean ALL who live there are inbred, marry their sisters/brothers and only have grade three education?
    What a silly, childish argument for horse slaughter. If you are trying to relate this to the douchebag from LauraKY's video then you are failing to make a valid comparison using any type of accepted logic.

    The person in Laura's video is an actual, current employee of the slaughterhouse that wants to begin horse processing in NM. He is advocating for horse slaughter and to be a part of the process of how slaughter bound horses are handled. To relate his desire to allow horse processing at his employer's plant, he chose to shoot that video and post it on social media. Apparently, it has majorly backfired on him and may very well be the catalyst that gets the general public fired up to oppose the new NM plant. A more intelligent person woud have seen the inevitability of a negative public backlash against such a poor choice, but not this moron.

    The people you referred to in your post are convicted criminals. No one is advocating that those convicted criminals should be entrusted with the welfare of children in any capacity.

    Even your attempted insult to LauraKY was so poorly executed that I wonder why you continue to try to buffalo us into believing that you are in any way clever with the written word. Let me help you to understand how you can improve your odds next time you try to use this type of insult.

    The pattern should be Person X has Trait Y, therefore do all People of the X persuasion have Trait Y? Your failed zinger to LauraKY used the nonsensical pattern of Person X has Trait Y, therefore do all People of the X persuasion have Traits L, Q & T? You need to be a bit more clever when you insult people, otherwise it just makes you look silly.
    Annabelle Mayr, Arcadia Farm
    Home of Fitz, Max, Daeo & Austria
    Now over the Rainbow Bridge: Finn, Jake & Seamus


    3 members found this post helpful.

  15. #535
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    Don't you have to wonder what these pro-slaughter folks are breeding that WE MUST HAVE SLAUGHTER? What kind of 'junk' are you folks creating, that your only avenue to success is slaughter?


    4 members found this post helpful.

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