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  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    Those of you suggesting that these horses all need homes, I think you are missing the point.

    Whether you hate slaughter for a good reason, a bad reason or no reason at all... or you support the industry 200%, this recent fiasco has opened Pandoras box for the industry.
    ...
    So again, who will buy US horses- that do not possess a passport- to slaughter for human consumption?
    I keep asking this question only to be answered by the sound of crickets... why d'you think that is? Could it be they don't have an answer to that and 'it's the RaRas' is just easier to parrot even if it doesn't answer the actual question?

    They did it themselves with their head in the sand, look the other way attitude.
    I'm not trying to be dense or argumentative here, but from an anti-slaughter standpoint, isn't the demanding of a passport/likely lack of demand a good thing?

    Everyone is asking "where's the market?"
    If there is not market, horses won't be slaughtered: it's not like paperclips, where you can produce billions and let them sit in a warehouse until purchased - no contracts means no horses slaughtered in very short order. Good, right?

    If the plant is built and there are no orders, it will sit empty, and likely bankrupt the evil company trying to make a living slaughtering horses....good, right?

    And if they find a market other than Europe, well, there's the answer to that question.

    But look at it from another angle; if slaughter and shipping to slaughter is made illegal, or if it is legalized and there is zero market, we still need to figure out what to do with the horses that may be left hanging ... homes, euthanasia? Who pays?
    The rescues that can't keep their heads above water and horses fed while slaughter active? If people are so willing to absorb these extra horses, why is no one already doing so?

    If it really is about saving the horses,
    don't you think there should be clearer plans than "someone will give them a home, it's not my problem, I just stopped slaughter, so I'm going to wash my hands and go home feeling good and not think about those now in dire straights" in order to prevent issues when one or the other of your best case scenarios happens?

    Otherwise, when it happens and there isn't a setup in place for horses that need a place to land, it will be the pro-slaughter side saying
    "They did it themselves with their head in the sand, look the other way attitude."



  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post

    Now we know why Angela has no horses, has not bred any horses and has no solutions. Rara's don't want solutions. They want DONATIONS
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    HaHaHa! Seriously?
    Someone is having WAY too much fun with you Fairfax.
    That sensation in your leg? It's someone pulling it!


    Then prove him wrong. Not more spam posts.



  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    All nonsense in this context.
    That is all part of the push by animal rights extremist groups to ban slaughter by using the mismanagement and abuse cards to ban slaughter.

    Why is that all nonsense in this context?
    Read previous post of mine.
    Clearly you didn't read what I posted. You're really not changing hearts and minds, you're singing to your choir. If that's all you want to do, why bother continuing to post?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #484
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    Dave Rutherford Show, Calgary Alberta CHQR Radio statlion. Follow up to their program on the slaughter issue. The European passport system is NOT working very well. Infact, the majority of the horses from Russia (about 1 million pounds to Holland alone) is NOT covered by ANY passport system.

    They are AMAZED by our system providing a feedlot system. They are also VERY IMPRESSED with the calmness involved with the horses going from field, to feedlot to the kill floor.

    A rept from the Dept of Agriculture was also on and he stated the drug test is on tract. He did not know about the dead bolt as his specialty is meat for human consumption.

    Did you know, Angela, that the requirements and testing for horsemeat sold in Canada for consumption exceeds that of Europe? Of course you didn't, It is not in the manifest of the Rara's..

    Did you know the market for horsemeat in Canada has grown due to the high influx of Europeans, and Asians to our country. Much like the U.S.A.


    ANGELA...I am typing slow...PLEASE READ WORD BY WORD

    Asia does not require passports and they import more than all of Europe and this is just the start. It is ideal for cultures that do not eat beef (India) and pork (the Jews of the world and many Muslim sects)

    ANGELA..please re-read that. Now onto the next point.

    U.S.A. county by county is now slowly stopping individuals from using landfills or even their own land to bury animals that have been euthanized due to the land absoring the chemicals from the corpse into the water syistems.

    Did you know that rendering operations CHARGE to pick up the animal. Lets do the calculation..from $250 and up plus 50$ and up is a minimum of $300 per animal to have it removed. What to do?? when you have NO MONEY.

    I think HSUS and PETA should absorb all of the costs that would be picked up by the counties.

    Maybe the counties could sue them like they have with the tobacco industry.



  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7HL View Post


    Then prove him wrong. Not more spam posts.
    LOL, again, seriously?

    There's no point to 'proving' anything to you, cause you've shown there's no such thing. You don't believe anything... whether it has a source of the information, or not. There's no 'proving' anything to you.... you're having way too much fun joy riding on that bandwagon.
    Last edited by Angela Freda; Mar. 7, 2013 at 12:48 PM. Reason: spelling



  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Dave Rutherford Show, Calgary Alberta CHQR Radio statlion. Follow up to their program on the slaughter issue. The European passport system is NOT working very well. Infact, the majority of the horses from Russia (about 1 million pounds to Holland alone) is NOT covered by ANY passport system.

    They are AMAZED by our system providing a feedlot system. They are also VERY IMPRESSED with the calmness involved with the horses going from field, to feedlot to the kill floor.

    A rept from the Dept of Agriculture was also on and he stated the drug test is on tract. He did not know about the dead bolt as his specialty is meat for human consumption.

    Did you know, Angela, that the requirements and testing for horsemeat sold in Canada for consumption exceeds that of Europe? Of course you didn't, It is not in the manifest of the Rara's..

    Did you know the market for horsemeat in Canada has grown due to the high influx of Europeans, and Asians to our country. Much like the U.S.A.


    ANGELA...I am typing slow...PLEASE READ WORD BY WORD

    Asia does not require passports and they import more than all of Europe and this is just the start. It is ideal for cultures that do not eat beef (India) and pork (the Jews of the world and many Muslim sects)

    ANGELA..please re-read that. Now onto the next point.

    U.S.A. county by county is now slowly stopping individuals from using landfills or even their own land to bury animals that have been euthanized due to the land absoring the chemicals from the corpse into the water syistems.

    Did you know that rendering operations CHARGE to pick up the animal. Lets do the calculation..from $250 and up plus 50$ and up is a minimum of $300 per animal to have it removed. What to do?? when you have NO MONEY.

    I think HSUS and PETA should absorb all of the costs that would be picked up by the counties.

    Maybe the counties could sue them like they have with the tobacco industry.
    When you fall for the hijinks someone is apparently having with you over the irrelevant, pointless, and easily ascertained if you could actually use Google 'does/does not Angela Freda have a horse[s]'... it's hard to take anything you say/write as anything serious, reliable or credible.

    Course I know that this is just a lil' fun you're having since we were Facebook friends for a while and you were well aware of my horse[s] etc...



  7. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Clearly you didn't read what I posted. You're really not changing hearts and minds, you're singing to your choir. If that's all you want to do, why bother continuing to post?
    You are still not listening.
    There are many more reading here and learning what these debates are all about.
    Those deserve to know more than one side, that these are all about the inconvenient truth that it is really all about the "save the pretty horses" drive from animal rights extremists groups and their agenda to eventually bring an end to any animal use by humans.

    Serious stuff so many like to forget and silence those that are trying to bring this into perspective.

    I grew up training horses and we received many of those from the slaughter plant.
    So, you can say that I was doing what some call "rescue" more than 50 years ago already.
    At the same time, I know that slaughter is not evil, it is just one more process to use SOME horse one more time.
    Since excess horses are going to be killed anyway, by animal control, rescues, whoever, WHY on earth not slaughter them and at least make one more use of them?
    THAT is why it is so absurd to BAN slaughter.

    Now, you say this or that abuse happened in slaughter?
    Be sensible, work to handle that situation better so that doesn't happen.

    Ban slaughter because of some mismanagement or abuse?
    Just as banning rescues, policemen or priests because there is some abuse there, that is absurd.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #488
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    Honestly, I'm wondering the same thing. IF they really demand proof of what the horse has had during it's lifetime and they actually stick to that and it's not the bs it is now, what happens to the horses that are stuck in the pipeline and what happens in the future??
    Will we then have to keep track of everything we give our horses on the off chance they get into the pipeline???

    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post
    I'm not trying to be dense or argumentative here, but from an anti-slaughter standpoint, isn't the demanding of a passport/likely lack of demand a good thing?

    Everyone is asking "where's the market?"
    If there is not market, horses won't be slaughtered: it's not like paperclips, where you can produce billions and let them sit in a warehouse until purchased - no contracts means no horses slaughtered in very short order. Good, right?

    If the plant is built and there are no orders, it will sit empty, and likely bankrupt the evil company trying to make a living slaughtering horses....good, right?

    And if they find a market other than Europe, well, there's the answer to that question.

    But look at it from another angle; if slaughter and shipping to slaughter is made illegal, or if it is legalized and there is zero market, we still need to figure out what to do with the horses that may be left hanging ... homes, euthanasia? Who pays?
    The rescues that can't keep their heads above water and horses fed while slaughter active? If people are so willing to absorb these extra horses, why is no one already doing so?

    If it really is about saving the horses,
    don't you think there should be clearer plans than "someone will give them a home, it's not my problem, I just stopped slaughter, so I'm going to wash my hands and go home feeling good and not think about those now in dire straights" in order to prevent issues when one or the other of your best case scenarios happens?

    Otherwise, when it happens and there isn't a setup in place for horses that need a place to land, it will be the pro-slaughter side saying
    "They did it themselves with their head in the sand, look the other way attitude."


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #489
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    Oct. 19, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Dave Rutherford Show, Calgary Alberta CHQR Radio statlion. Follow up to their program on the slaughter issue. The European passport system is NOT working very well. Infact, the majority of the horses from Russia (about 1 million pounds to Holland alone) is NOT covered by ANY passport system.

    They are AMAZED by our system providing a feedlot system. They are also VERY IMPRESSED with the calmness involved with the horses going from field, to feedlot to the kill floor.

    A rept from the Dept of Agriculture was also on and he stated the drug test is on tract. He did not know about the dead bolt as his specialty is meat for human consumption.

    Did you know, Angela, that the requirements and testing for horsemeat sold in Canada for consumption exceeds that of Europe? Of course you didn't, It is not in the manifest of the Rara's..

    Did you know the market for horsemeat in Canada has grown due to the high influx of Europeans, and Asians to our country. Much like the U.S.A.


    ANGELA...I am typing slow...PLEASE READ WORD BY WORD

    Asia does not require passports and they import more than all of Europe and this is just the start. It is ideal for cultures that do not eat beef (India) and pork (the Jews of the world and many Muslim sects)

    ANGELA..please re-read that. Now onto the next point.

    U.S.A. county by county is now slowly stopping individuals from using landfills or even their own land to bury animals that have been euthanized due to the land absoring the chemicals from the corpse into the water syistems.

    Did you know that rendering operations CHARGE to pick up the animal. Lets do the calculation..from $250 and up plus 50$ and up is a minimum of $300 per animal to have it removed. What to do?? when you have NO MONEY.

    I think HSUS and PETA should absorb all of the costs that would be picked up by the counties.

    Maybe the counties could sue them like they have with the tobacco industry.
    Do you live in Canada? Your mention of "our country" - not sure what country you are referring.
    Also I dont understand what you mean by horsemeat would be perfect for Muslims because its not beef.. Ok what and how would you classify horsemeat?



  10. #490
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    Newsflash. Muslims eat beef. They do not eat pork.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonoverMississippi View Post

    And if they find a market other than Europe, well, there's the answer to that question.

    But look at it from another angle; if slaughter and shipping to slaughter is made illegal, or if it is legalized and there is zero market, we still need to figure out what to do with the horses that may be left hanging ... homes, euthanasia? Who pays?
    The rescues that can't keep their heads above water and horses fed while slaughter active? If people are so willing to absorb these extra horses, why is no one already doing so?


    Otherwise, when it happens and there isn't a setup in place for horses that need a place to land, it will be the pro-slaughter side saying
    "They did it themselves with their head in the sand, look the other way attitude."
    The horses being shipped to slaughter ALL have owners. Those owners are not all using slaughter because they have no other options. There are even KB's that pose as a "family man" that brings a kid with to answer "free to good home ads", and they will lie and say they want a horse for junior. We have a guy here in El paso that regularly advertises that way on CL. He then immediately sells to slaughter. Some people run their horse thru the auction not knowing that KB's are there. At our local auction, the auctioneer hides the identity of the buyer so people won't know they are going to slaughter. I went with a local trainer about 5 yrs ago, and she ran a pony thru and I had to tell her to put a reserve, because she hadn't done so. She was unaware that KB's were there bidding.
    Very few, if any of those using slaughter have no other options. They are either having the horses bought by deception, or unknowingly selling at an auction KB's attend, or they knowingly sell, and don't care. Some are just greedy and want 50-100.00 rather than to shoot and bury, compost, have rendered or removed.
    KB have abandoned over 5000 horses in the desert that were rejected at the border just last yr. Add up the number of large scale neglect cases last yr, and you'll see that the numbers the KB's dumped far exceeds that.



  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    When you fall for the hijinks someone is apparently having with you over the irrelevant, pointless, and easily ascertained if you could actually use Google 'does/does not Angela Freda have a horse[s]'... it's hard to take anything you say/write as anything serious, reliable or credible.

    Course I know that this is just a lil' fun you're having since we were Facebook friends for a while and you were well aware of my horse[s] etc...
    Oh No...you must have unfriended me. With over 4900 close facebook friends I don't know HOW that one missed me. I have no idea who you are? I have no idea where you live...I do know what others have stated...

    I have established my credibility and my sources have been reliable.

    Remember last year...SLAUGHTER IS OVER...KAFOOT...NEVER AGAIN...MEXICO AND CANADA NO LONGER TAKING HORSES...that was from you and your group. I posted NOPE..Ft MacLeod still taking them...don't know why Ontario isn't. Your group with the Canadian Coalition stated ... New Holland truck drive Brian??? NEVER lies...he knows...he is going out of business...no more horses...all sales cancelled ...I posted on that Friday...they would open Monday...I was wrong boo hoo hoo...it was WEDNESDAY. You and your group went very very quiet.

    Then you came at it from a different side but you NEVER discussed that Mistake again...same as you claimed you had solutions and you would print them...if I would blah blah blah...and when I did provide all of the information you needed you then stated you did not have to give solutions. NOT YOUR PROBLEM..

    Nice.....

    Maybe if your horses don't "meat" your breeding program...I would be interested in them. Give me a call sometime...we can laugh over the good old times.



  13. #493
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    In the slim chance horse slaughter does get passed, plants are built, and horse meat becomes legal to sell at grocery stores, I would as I am sure others would boycott the stores themselves and not because these consumers are RARA's but because they are opposed to horse meat..


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by andylover View Post
    In the slim chance horse slaughter does get passed, plants are built, and horse meat becomes legal to sell at grocery stores, I would as I am sure others would boycott the stores themselves and not because these consumers are RARA's but because they are opposed to horse meat..
    I am opposed to veal. That does not mean I have to buy it when the store offers it.

    And really, this is a First World Problem: You have choices and options to purchase your plentiful groceries. Give that some thought!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  15. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by andylover View Post
    In the slim chance horse slaughter does get passed, plants are built, and horse meat becomes legal to sell at grocery stores, I would as I am sure others would boycott the stores themselves and not because these consumers are RARA's but because they are opposed to horse meat..
    Stores sell all sorts of things certain groups are opposed to certainly seems absurd to boycott. Contraceptives , pork , beef , meat in general , caffeinated products , products tested on animals , products made in sweat shops. Just don't buy the stuff you take issue with. If it doesn't turn a profit it will not survive on the market if it does /oh well get over it.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    The horses being shipped to slaughter ALL have owners. Those owners are not all using slaughter because they have no other options. There are even KB's that pose as a "family man" that brings a kid with to answer "free to good home ads", and they will lie and say they want a horse for junior. We have a guy here in El paso that regularly advertises that way on CL. He then immediately sells to slaughter. Some people run their horse thru the auction not knowing that KB's are there. At our local auction, the auctioneer hides the identity of the buyer so people won't know they are going to slaughter. I went with a local trainer about 5 yrs ago, and she ran a pony thru and I had to tell her to put a reserve, because she hadn't done so. She was unaware that KB's were there bidding.
    Very few, if any of those using slaughter have no other options. They are either having the horses bought by deception, or unknowingly selling at an auction KB's attend, or they knowingly sell, and don't care. Some are just greedy and want 50-100.00 rather than to shoot and bury, compost, have rendered or removed.
    KB have abandoned over 5000 horses in the desert that were rejected at the border just last yr. Add up the number of large scale neglect cases last yr, and you'll see that the numbers the KB's dumped far exceeds that.
    Wow...this is such an old urban legend left over from the 80's.

    I am sure a "guy" goes advertise and maybe he does get some poor ma and pa suckers who sell their daughter Suzie's horse for "his" daughter as theirs is off at college...WHY would he go to those great lengths when there are THOUSANDS of horses in Texas available at 25$ and up?

    People don't want to admit they are selling their horse to slaughter but with all of the news they are in "denial" . They hear from their feed man..their farrier...their vet...oh...wait...if they can afford those they probably don't sell at a low end auction.

    We are aware of the number of horses released...and that is why the feedlots..now up to 5 in Texas..with up to 6000 hroses each...are a great service. They are having some of those horses that were too thin for even the Mexican slaughter plants to take, picked up and delivered to them. Some even put a "reward" out so the catcher gets paid.

    many people SOLD their trailers. Many are terrified to take a skinny horse to an auction for fear they will be charged. Of course, they should have taken it sooner but now there is no option because rescue and HSUS sponsored groups will seize the horse and go after the consignor.

    The point, which you have pointed out....5000 horses were turned loose to fend for themselves because they were too think...I have an idea...Call Andy here on COTH as he/she seems to know all these people who will take them.

    Your post actually supports why there should be local slaughter plants and feedlots.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Newsflash. Muslims eat beef. They do not eat pork.
    That is even better...quick transition from beef to equine..another market...the M.E.



  18. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    When you fall for the hijinks someone is apparently having with you over the irrelevant, pointless, and easily ascertained if you could actually use Google 'does/does not Angela Freda have a horse[s]'... it's hard to take anything you say/write as anything serious, reliable or credible.

    Course I know that this is just a lil' fun you're having since we were Facebook friends for a while and you were well aware of my horse[s] etc...
    Angela..I just did the google..all it did was prove you are a Rara by your posts Nothing on there saying you are a breeder, which breed...

    Oh well...you still have not given us any solutions. We are STILL waiting


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Wow...this is such an old urban legend left over from the 80's.

    I am sure a "guy" goes advertise and maybe he does get some poor ma and pa suckers who sell their daughter Suzie's horse for "his" daughter as theirs is off at college...WHY would he go to those great lengths when there are THOUSANDS of horses in Texas available at 25$ and up?

    People don't want to admit they are selling their horse to slaughter but with all of the news they are in "denial" . They hear from their feed man..their farrier...their vet...oh...wait...if they can afford those they probably don't sell at a low end auction.

    We are aware of the number of horses released...and that is why the feedlots..now up to 5 in Texas..with up to 6000 hroses each...are a great service. They are having some of those horses that were too thin for even the Mexican slaughter plants to take, picked up and delivered to them. Some even put a "reward" out so the catcher gets paid.

    many people SOLD their trailers. Many are terrified to take a skinny horse to an auction for fear they will be charged. Of course, they should have taken it sooner but now there is no option because rescue and HSUS sponsored groups will seize the horse and go after the consignor.

    The point, which you have pointed out....5000 horses were turned loose to fend for themselves because they were too think...I have an idea...Call Andy here on COTH as he/she seems to know all these people who will take them.

    Your post actually supports why there should be local slaughter plants and feedlots.
    It's not an urban legend, and happens here.
    Also, look at the girl in New England that was promising TB trainers/owners on teh track "good homes", and she turned around and sold them to slaughter. There is a court case pending still, I believe and there was a long thread on her.
    There are other court cases where deception was used to obtain horses to sell to slaughter. I know there was a large one in KY.
    The 5000 horses were not turned away for being too thin. They were sick, and if one is sick with something like strangles, the whole trailer load is turned back.
    RE local SH- Those horses dumped in the desert 15 min from me came from WI, which is closer to Canada than Mexico. Shippers have always shipped to whoever paid the most...not to whoever was closer. Look at all the horses that would ship to Dallas Crowne/Beltex, from New Holland/Sugarcreek, back when Cavel was open. That wasn't exactly shorter.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #500
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    Happens here too. The guy goes by the name "Wild Bill". He advertises on craiglist (although he's reported shortly after posting and the posts are removed) that he will take your horse off your hands and make sure he gets a good home. Yeah, right. Straight to the auction.
    Last edited by LauraKY; Mar. 7, 2013 at 08:00 PM.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    3 members found this post helpful.

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