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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post

    Millions of cats and dogs are killed each year...yet we hear crickets.
    Dogs and Cats are pets. Horses are livestock. They are not the same.

    In your comparison you want horses to have greater protection then cats & dogs.

    Mandate NO KILL for dogs and cats and there will be a public outcry. How will they pay for ALL the unwanted animals.

    On COTH alone there are some that find no problem in killing dogs or cats, for various reasons. Many find no problem that they have a killer dog, they say it is only natural. I have seen posted, that it's ok for their dog to kill the cat that strayed into their yards. Also locally to me someone kills two dogs because he said they were chasing his sheep. That is ok by the law. He lied, now its a minor offense.

    We humans have come to accept killing in various forms for a wide spectrum or reasons.

    Euthanasia is killing. We just put a pretty bow on it to make it acceptable.

    Slaughter is what it is killing. Animals die.

    So pick your poison, humans kill for various reasons, get over it.


    Oh ... they sell crickets in pet stores as food for other animals.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I know people like that, in RESCUE from all places, people that don't have anything to do with slaughter.

    Abusers and idiots are all over the place, in all we do in life, slaughter is not exempt either, neither is any other place you care to look.
    It is a continuous struggle to keep such people at bay, if they are day care workers, there was just some such come out in the local news, doctors, teachers, priests, policemen, your neighborhood show trainer, the local rescue lady, you name it, you can find such people we call here "not worth killing".

    Animal rights extremists use those to brand all.
    Imagine there were some of the richest non-profits in the world with the agenda of destroying all teachers, wanting all kids to be free, no more schools, kids should be running around playing until they are old enough to work.
    That is what animal rights extremists groups are doing to all we do with animals, slaughter just the low hanging fruit and YOU ARE FALLING FOR IT.

    Don't follow bandwagons, use some common sense, think what you are saying thru before you try to tell what slaughter is or is not, because it is obvious you are going by myths and propaganda, don't really know.

    YOUR arguments are not holding water.
    Oh, Bluey. Debating this issue with you is like shovelling it against the tide, because this is your Crusade. When you can't convince us of your argument's merit, you dismiss all dissenters as shills for the RARA, and certainly no one's ever going to change your mind.

    I notice you've said that you have a few old retired horses at your place, though. Why have they not gone on to this "higher use" you so extol? You don't believe in leading by example? No one has denied you your "right" to do so . . .

    There are close to 3,000 people besides us reading this thread. Due to the lurid descriptions and links, I'd bet most of them now have a pretty clear idea what happens after the auction, and I'll bet this thread is responsible for shudders, nightmares, and a lot of extra hugs for Dobbin all across America today.

    The situation as it now stands is a fate no decent person will knowingly consign their horse to. Public sympathy runs about a thousand to one against building more U.S. plants for this industry. The entire future of horse meat in Europe is in disarray at the moment. Anything else is pie in the sky that probably won't happen.

    Probably time we all moved on to something more pleasant.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    I don't get it either. Do they think they're not terrified when they're walked down the hall to the gas chamber? Do they think they're pain free when they're put down with a heart stick?

    Millions of cats and dogs are killed each year...yet we hear crickets.

    And Bluey, circuses are disgusting.
    And you know that "circuses are disgusting" because?

    We used to start colts for the circus, our riding school is where one circus would board their animals thru the winter, the older lion in a box stall right in the barn, the small elephant and assorted other critters in our cross country field, right around the permanent jumps.
    Made for some interesting training.

    The circus had their own employees taking care of their animals and they did an excellent job.
    Their animals were treated like family, which in a way were to them.
    They didn't just come by to feed and clean after them, but spent time with them, groomed them to a t, did some playing/training and the animals were looking for ward to them coming.

    Now, again, what do you know about how circuses are run, to be so cavalier about them?
    More animal rights extremist stories, videos and propaganda?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Oh, Bluey. Debating this issue with you is like shovelling it against the tide, because this is your Crusade. When you can't convince us of your argument's merit, you dismiss all dissenters as shills for the RARA, and certainly no one's ever going to change your mind.

    I notice you've said that you have a few old retired horses at your place, though. Why have they not gone on to this "higher use" you so extol? You don't believe in leading by example? No one has denied you your "right" to do so . . .

    There are close to 3,000 people besides us reading this thread. Due to the lurid descriptions and links, I'd bet most of them now have a pretty clear idea what happens after the auction, and I'll bet this thread is responsible for shudders, nightmares, and a lot of extra hugs for Dobbin all across America today.

    The situation as it now stands is a fate no decent person will knowingly consign their horse to. Public sympathy runs about a thousand to one against building more U.S. plants for this industry. The entire future of horse meat in Europe is in disarray at the moment. Anything else is pie in the sky that probably won't happen.

    Probably time we all moved on to something more pleasant.
    Well, it seems that it is you who is on a crusade, won't listen, all you have to go by are those lurid stories and videos from animal rights extremists and won't listen to any those that really know have to say.
    Yes, it is like swimming against the tide, all that information out there just has a life of it's own, even when it is false and out of context.

    As for what I may or not do with my own horses, why is that any business of yours?
    I have time and again explained that slaughter is one more way to use SOME horses and that no one is made to use slaughter.
    Why do you insist if slaughter is opened now ALL horses will have to go to slaughter?
    That doesn't make any sense than believing what animal rights extremists propaganda puts out there like some here seem to.

    I agree, slaughter is unpleasant part of life.
    BUT, most adults learn to live with things that are unpleasant.
    Now, to be what animal rights extremist propaganda myths wants you to believe, sorry, that it is not.

    If you could get past your "unpleasantness" and think, not react as those animal rights extremists are counting on you doing, maybe you at least may get the whole story, not just a very biased, mostly wrong idea of what slaughter is.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #225
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    Bluey, I think circuses are disgusting from a spectator's point of view. Nothing more, nothing less. Boring, sad, too long and too much selling of junk and crap (from China, of course).
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Bluey, I think circuses are disgusting from a spectator's point of view. Nothing more, nothing less.

    I agree, there is no accounting for taste, is it.

    I don't like NASCAR at all, but don't go on crusades to ban it.


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  7. #227
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    I don't like NASCAR either, and I'm not trying to ban either one. Stop trying to paint me as an animal rights activist.

    I think circuses are sad and disgusting and I'm entitled to my very own opinion formed by taking my daughter to a circus.

    I don't like carnival rides and side shows for the same reason...with the addition that in many states they're not inspected.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  8. #228
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    The fact is horses are not a natural resource anymore than cattle or chickens. Do I have to post every definition for you. This is NOT an opinion. If you want to call them an agricultural product, fine. That is what you are really saying anyway.


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  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    You are parroting that right out of animal rights groups propaganda, you don't know that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I have explained that to you before and much else, but repeating animal rights extremist propaganda
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post

    More animal rights extremist stories, videos and propaganda?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    That doesn't make any sense than believing what animal rights extremists propaganda puts out there like some here seem to.
    I just invented a new drinking game. One drink every time Bluey uses the phrase "animal rights extremists" or "propaganda"!



    Sorry, Bluey, but I couldn't help it!
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


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  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    I just invented a new drinking game. One drink every time Bluey uses the phrase "animal rights extremists" or "propaganda"!



    Sorry, Bluey, but I couldn't help it!
    Well, I was posting animal rights fanatics and you didn't like it, so I changed it to animal rights extremists and now you don't like that?

    Do please tell me what you like to be called?



  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    I just invented a new drinking game. One drink every time Bluey uses the phrase "animal rights extremists" or "propaganda"!



    Sorry, Bluey, but I couldn't help it!
    There isn't enough booze in the world......

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    4 members found this post helpful.

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    I just invented a new drinking game. One drink every time Bluey uses the phrase "animal rights extremists" or "propaganda"!



    Sorry, Bluey, but I couldn't help it!
    Go for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Well, I was posting animal rights fanatics and you didn't like it, so I changed it to animal rights extremists and now you don't like that?

    Do please tell me what you like to be called?
    Why do you insist on calling those of us against slaughter anything?!

    Being opposed to slaughter does not make us extremist or even activists but it does mean we are compassionate.
    Last edited by jenm; Mar. 3, 2013 at 04:39 PM. Reason: Left out a word
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    Why do you insist on calling those of us against slaughter anything?!

    Being opposed to slaughter does not make us extremist or even activists but it does mean we are compassionate.
    No, not being for the ban.

    But your arguments show which camp you are from.

    Ok, where was I:

    Propaganda
    Animal rights activist
    ARA
    RARA

    did I leave anything out?

    SKOLL, bottoms up, Dear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Everything we do has consequences, no one is denying that.
    BUT, you are not being honest there, bringing the case of one plant that had a partially malfunctioning system to process water before being discharged, a plant that was where real estate was becoming pricey, or would if they could run industrial business out of there, like, horror, a slaughter plant.

    I agree, the plant was old and needed to go somewhere else and they knew that and were trying their best to run with what they had.

    Any other time, other place, they would have modernized, get their system replaced and stayed in business.

    You mean like the brand spanking new, industrial strength pretreatment system at Cavel?


    It was community administrators and local residents who actively petitioned to have horse slaughter plants shut, citing the extreme disregard for the welfare of the people and locales where they existed as well as the merciless suffering of the horses sent to them.

    NUMEROUS VIOLATIONS PLAGUE COMMUNITIES

    All three horse slaughter plants amassed numerous environmental violations and overwhelmed the waste water infrastructures due to dumping of blood, entrails, urine, feces, heads and hooves.

    As with Dallas Crown, Beltex had a non-unionized workforce. OSHA records revealed that since the plants' inception in 1977 until its last inspection in 1997, Beltex had committed 29 violations of which 28 were deemed serious. OSHA records show that an ammonia leak occurred in 1996, but no one (fortunately) died or was permanently disabled. In 2000 the facility "accidentally pumped blood into the creek" and "in 2001, they were notified that waste water was flowing into adjacent properties and into the creek."[5]

    Of particular note, the Sanitation Group of DeKalb, Illinois, where Cavel International was located, identified the incomparable hazard associated with the discharge from horse slaughter facilities.

    "This hazard is uniquely acute for horse slaughter because of the wide range of drugs given to horses that are clearly labeled NOT FOR USE IN HORSES INTENDED FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION."[6]

    These noxious drugs are not only present in the meat intended for human consumption overseas but also in the waste water and sludge produced during processing. This runoff has the potential to contaminate down-stream water intakes, including groundwater used for human consumption, and can enter the food chain via sludge distribution on crops.

    Unlike the aforementioned, decades old horse slaughter plants in Texas, Cavel International in Illinois was a sparkling new, purpose built facility that re-opened in June, 2004 with a state-of-the-art pre-treatment system.

    Additionally, Cavel International had special Industrial Waste Permits that allowed much higher (8 times higher) contamination levels for waste water leaving the slaughter house. But Cavel was still out of compliance, and not just a few times. This facility was in significant non-compliance hundreds of times. In one report, a Cavel employee acknowledges "chunks" from slaughtered horses were oozing out of tanks. This does not include the numerous safety violations documented by the FSIS.[7]


    http://www.horsefund.org/horse-slaug...own-part-1.php

    Almost 1,100 photographs were provided along with written documentation describing the extent of violations, injuries, and penalties. The information was provided after submitting a Freedom of Information Act request to the USDA on July 28, 2012.**
    *
    Documented in the information Animals' Angels received were well over 100 incidents; each individual case detailing a multitude of violations involving the transport of horses for slaughter to the Illinois plant*from 2004 to 2007.*

    The deplorable conditions & horrific injuries documented in the USDA records

    Most upsetting of all is the fact that the few offenders that received high fines such as Charles Carter ($234,000) or Leroy Baker ($173,000), are still allowed to operate without having ever paid for their egregious violations.**

    And as is made clear by the USDA records, there appears to be no violation egregious enough to warrant or secure significant repercussions. What good does it do to impose fines of*$150,000 or more, if these fines are never collected and offenders are allowed to continue to operate?



    http://archive.constantcontact.com/f...090175722.html


    Information was provided from Cavel Horse Slaughterhouse in DeKalb, Illinois describing the plant's effluent problems, the issues with quality of life of the surrounding areas, the negative impact on local environment, detrimental effects of the public water supply, and the negative stigma associated with a horse slaughter plant in someone's backyard.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/new-...lant-approvals


    Cavel International in Illionis was a sparkling new, purpose built facility that re-opened in June, 2004 with a state-of-the-art pre-treatment system.
    Cavel International even had special Industrial Waste Permits that allowed much higher (8 times higher) contamination levels for wastewater leaving the slaughter house.
    But Cavel was still out of compliance. And not just a few times. This facility was in significant non-compliance hundreds of times. In one report, a Cavel employee acknowledges “chunks” from slaughtered horses were oozing out of tanks. This does not include the numerous safety violations documented by the FSIS.


    http://tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com/2...mental-impact/

    I suppose the USDA, OSHA, FSIS and the Sanitation Group of DeKalb Ill., and others are just spreading propaganda?
    There I go parroting animal rights extremist agendas again!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    Why do you insist on calling those of us against slaughter anything?!

    Being opposed to slaughter does not make us extremist or even activists but it does mean we are compassionate.
    Your halo is not shiny enough?

    Seriously, there is nothing compassionate or not about slaughter.
    Slaughter is what it is, one more way to use SOME horses after they are dead, that's all.
    Sure, you can slaughter more or less compassionately, but slaughter in itself is not compassionate or abusive or any other than, sorry to repeat that, one more way to use the natural, renewable resource horses are in this world.

    What being against slaughter makes those that parrot animal rights extremist agendas is, well, animal rights extremist followers.
    That, sorry to say, doesn't has anything to do with compassionate.
    Animal rights extremists don't care about any one animal in a compassionate way, they are an extreme, strange ideology about who can use what in this little blue marble we all happen to belong to.
    "They" (there, is that better? ) are trying to impose their almost religious beliefs of humans not using animals on all, along with making their millions with that ideology.

    Nothing compassionate about insisting all animals are better off dead than in human hands.
    Compassionate is animal welfare, seeing that what we do with our animals is the best we can do.
    A VERY BIG DIFFERENCE some just can't seem to understand.



  17. #237
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    I've got to agree with JenM, being opposed to slaughter doesn't make you an extremist. An extremist wants to get rid of animal ownership. I don't think anyone on this thread is suggesting that's a good idea.

    I'm not opposed to slaughter, but I'm not a proponent either. I think there are worse things than dead. What does that make me? Oh, and don't forget, I hate circuses too.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    You mean like the brand spanking new, industrial strength pretreatment system at Cavel?


    It was community administrators and local residents who actively petitioned to have horse slaughter plants shut, citing the extreme disregard for the welfare of the people and locales where they existed as well as the merciless suffering of the horses sent to them.

    NUMEROUS VIOLATIONS PLAGUE COMMUNITIES

    All three horse slaughter plants amassed numerous environmental violations and overwhelmed the waste water infrastructures due to dumping of blood, entrails, urine, feces, heads and hooves.

    As with Dallas Crown, Beltex had a non-unionized workforce. OSHA records revealed that since the plants' inception in 1977 until its last inspection in 1997, Beltex had committed 29 violations of which 28 were deemed serious. OSHA records show that an ammonia leak occurred in 1996, but no one (fortunately) died or was permanently disabled. In 2000 the facility "accidentally pumped blood into the creek" and "in 2001, they were notified that waste water was flowing into adjacent properties and into the creek."[5]

    Of particular note, the Sanitation Group of DeKalb, Illinois, where Cavel International was located, identified the incomparable hazard associated with the discharge from horse slaughter facilities.

    "This hazard is uniquely acute for horse slaughter because of the wide range of drugs given to horses that are clearly labeled NOT FOR USE IN HORSES INTENDED FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION."[6]

    These noxious drugs are not only present in the meat intended for human consumption overseas but also in the waste water and sludge produced during processing. This runoff has the potential to contaminate down-stream water intakes, including groundwater used for human consumption, and can enter the food chain via sludge distribution on crops.

    Unlike the aforementioned, decades old horse slaughter plants in Texas, Cavel International in Illinois was a sparkling new, purpose built facility that re-opened in June, 2004 with a state-of-the-art pre-treatment system.

    Additionally, Cavel International had special Industrial Waste Permits that allowed much higher (8 times higher) contamination levels for waste water leaving the slaughter house. But Cavel was still out of compliance, and not just a few times. This facility was in significant non-compliance hundreds of times. In one report, a Cavel employee acknowledges "chunks" from slaughtered horses were oozing out of tanks. This does not include the numerous safety violations documented by the FSIS.[7]


    http://www.horsefund.org/horse-slaug...own-part-1.php

    Almost 1,100 photographs were provided along with written documentation describing the extent of violations, injuries, and penalties. The information was provided after submitting a Freedom of Information Act request to the USDA on July 28, 2012.**
    *
    Documented in the information Animals' Angels received were well over 100 incidents; each individual case detailing a multitude of violations involving the transport of horses for slaughter to the Illinois plant*from 2004 to 2007.*

    The deplorable conditions & horrific injuries documented in the USDA records

    Most upsetting of all is the fact that the few offenders that received high fines such as Charles Carter ($234,000) or Leroy Baker ($173,000), are still allowed to operate without having ever paid for their egregious violations.**

    And as is made clear by the USDA records, there appears to be no violation egregious enough to warrant or secure significant repercussions. What good does it do to impose fines of*$150,000 or more, if these fines are never collected and offenders are allowed to continue to operate?



    http://archive.constantcontact.com/f...090175722.html


    Information was provided from Cavel Horse Slaughterhouse in DeKalb, Illinois describing the plant's effluent problems, the issues with quality of life of the surrounding areas, the negative impact on local environment, detrimental effects of the public water supply, and the negative stigma associated with a horse slaughter plant in someone's backyard.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/new-...lant-approvals


    Cavel International in Illionis was a sparkling new, purpose built facility that re-opened in June, 2004 with a state-of-the-art pre-treatment system.
    Cavel International even had special Industrial Waste Permits that allowed much higher (8 times higher) contamination levels for wastewater leaving the slaughter house.
    But Cavel was still out of compliance. And not just a few times. This facility was in significant non-compliance hundreds of times. In one report, a Cavel employee acknowledges “chunks” from slaughtered horses were oozing out of tanks. This does not include the numerous safety violations documented by the FSIS.


    http://tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com/2...mental-impact/

    I suppose the USDA, OSHA, FSIS and the Sanitation Group of DeKalb Ill., and others are just spreading propaganda?
    There I go parroting animal rights extremist agendas again!
    So what, there are laws and regulations and if those are not followed, there are consequences, no matter who is the one not following them, a slaughter plant or your local machine or printing plant, or a city's sewer system.

    You fix what is not working, you don't ban it all with the excuse that someone, somewhere, didn't to it right at some time, be it slaughter or any other.

    Why is that such a hard concept to understand?



  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Your halo is not shiny enough?

    Seriously, there is nothing compassionate or not about slaughter.
    Slaughter is what it is, one more way to use SOME horses after they are dead, that's all.
    Sure, you can slaughter more or less compassionately, but slaughter in itself is not compassionate or abusive or any other than, sorry to repeat that, one more way to use the natural, renewable resource horses are in this world.

    What being against slaughter makes those that parrot animal rights extremist agendas is, well, animal rights extremist followers.
    That, sorry to say, doesn't has anything to do with compassionate.
    Animal rights extremists don't care about any one animal in a compassionate way, they are an extreme, strange ideology about who can use what in this little blue marble we all happen to belong to.
    "They" (there, is that better? ) are trying to impose their almost religious beliefs of humans not using animals on all, along with making their millions with that ideology.

    Nothing compassionate about insisting all animals are better off dead than in human hands.
    Compassionate is animal welfare, seeing that what we do with our animals is the best we can do.
    A VERY BIG DIFFERENCE some just can't seem to understand.
    Interesting that you believe you are right and the rest of us are wrong. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we don't understand.
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    I've got to agree with JenM, being opposed to slaughter doesn't make you an extremist. An extremist wants to get rid of animal ownership. I don't think anyone on this thread is suggesting that's a good idea.

    I'm not opposed to slaughter, but I'm not a proponent either. I think there are worse things than dead. What does that make me? Oh, and don't forget, I hate circuses too.
    No, being against slaughter alone is not being an animal rights extremist, we just have to agree to disagree, depending on what your reasons against it may be.

    On the other hand, if you are using animal rights extremist myths and propaganda to make slaughter look evil as your reasons to be against slaughter, well, if it walks like a duck and all that.



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