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  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    SOLUTION:

    Build water recyucling plants and also have a cleaning facility. Canada is known world wide for its portable water decontamination systems they take to Africa and also took to New Orleans after the hurricane.

    Fort MacLeod facility is NOT on the public system.

    Keep scraping...there will be a bottom to your barrel
    And the money for this is going to come from...?
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
    http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg


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  2. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Right, years old study that shows management needs to tighten up.
    Well, good news, it has, as it should.

    So, you want to ban slaughter because someone, somewhere was not doing their job right years ago and I am sure still today, but much less apt to, you can also find someone not doing their job right, a plant not being perfectly managed?

    You know, that comes under regulations and supervision, happens in all we do in life, is NO reason to ban anything over it.
    Banning slaughter because someone, somewhere, some time did or didn't do something right is throwing the baby out with the bath water, eliminating one more use of animals, as animal rights extremists are working to do.

    Sensible people work for animal welfare, they see that what we do with our animals, anywhere, be the best we can do, even in slaughter, not on trying to eliminate this or that use we make of our animals.
    Why is that such a hard concept to understand for some?
    TG even stated in an interview done w/in the last few yrs that she could go into the horse slaughter plant that she helped design in CA, and everything would be fine while she was there, but as soon as her back was turned it would be full of humane violations. That was fairly recently and at a state of the art facility.
    It's on video in a variety of places if you google it.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7HL View Post
    But many are. Some are even suggesting elimination of not slaughtering any animals.

    Then there's the old slippery slope that the RARA's want and that is animal ownership.
    I missed the post suggesting we stop slaughtering any animal...can you point me to it, link it, or tell me which poster posted it?



  4. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    TG even stated in an interview done w/in the last few yrs that she could go into the horse slaughter plant that she helped design in CA, and everything would be fine while she was there, but as soon as her back was turned it would be full of humane violations. That was fairly recently and at a state of the art facility.
    It's on video in a variety of places if you google it.
    I actually found a quote in Chronicle:

    “The potential for the process to be botched is just too great. When you’re handling horses through chutes like livestock, they freak, they panic,” said Keith Dane, director of equine protection for the Humane Society of the United States. “They often flip over in these conveyances.”

    Temple Grandin, a professor of animal science at Colorado State University and an outspoken advocate for humane slaughter, has visited slaughterhouses in Canada and noted that lack of consistent oversight causes problems with the system.

    “When I’m standing there next to them, they do just fine,” Grandin said. “When my back’s turned, they don’t. I look at videos, and it’s not working fine. A horse plant is capable of working fine, but it gets down to management, equipment maintenance and training. I want video auditing, and I want it streamed out to the Internet. You could watch it any time you want, live, to make sure it’s not just lip service that the plants are running humanely.”



    http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...hter-it-humane



  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    I see this situation a little differently. If we have horse slaughter in the US again, that will mean we as horse owners will have to be in compliance with the EU regulations. You talk about not wanting to be tracked?? I think that will mean more regulation than you really want to think about.
    I agree. I think as horse owners we are going to have potentially some type of tracking mechanisms throughout the life of "mine or our' horses in the event the horse potentially ends up in slaughter. Also, tracking of the horse could quite literally end up like that of a cow. So the tracking of horses through transport and sale would be monitord by the government, which brings in with this tracking comes the sale tax which most people dont pay when buying and selling.



  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenm View Post
    And the money for this is going to come from...?
    Jenn...In high school economics they teach us that infrastructure is paid for by the business. If they do use a public water, electrical system or anything involved with services they will also pay for that.

    Yes, it is tax deductible, the same as any other business is allowed to claim.



  7. #347
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    Bute has been given to horses for decades. But if on the side of the bottle it states "not for use in animals intended for food" does that alone imply Bute potentially being cancer causing or concern over the impact if Bute is consumed by humans? If the manufacturer to wormers and bute, let alone other products I have used on my horses state not for use on animals intended for food - some type of testing had to be done by someone - somewhere in order to make those statements. These warnings are not posted just for fun. So with the postings that Bute, wormers are not proven to cause cancer - who is and has paid for those studies?



  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    I actually found a quote in Chronicle:

    “The potential for the process to be botched is just too great. When you’re handling horses through chutes like livestock, they freak, they panic,” said Keith Dane, director of equine protection for the Humane Society of the United States. “They often flip over in these conveyances.”

    Temple Grandin, a professor of animal science at Colorado State University and an outspoken advocate for humane slaughter, has visited slaughterhouses in Canada and noted that lack of consistent oversight causes problems with the system.

    “When I’m standing there next to them, they do just fine,” Grandin said. “When my back’s turned, they don’t. I look at videos, and it’s not working fine. A horse plant is capable of working fine, but it gets down to management, equipment maintenance and training. I want video auditing, and I want it streamed out to the Internet. You could watch it any time you want, live, to make sure it’s not just lip service that the plants are running humanely.”



    http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...hter-it-humane
    Angela...this is old old old old and not even close to recent information.

    I remember you when the rumour went around that ALL slaughter had been brought to a sudden stop. The Canadian Coalition took CREDIT and actually had one of their members come on COTH and take credit and applaud the end. Their website was almost a love in.

    I called the Republican rep (can't remember her name) and she stated NOPE...it was not due to the EU. I published that and the COTH Cluster group stated...oh yeah...did you call the president...and others just called me a liar when I stated it was NOT on the EU websites. One poster stated she had first hand information and had CALLED the EU and they confirmed Slaughter was over. No more horses from Canada and U.S. They were contaminated etc


    I said NOPE...not so..again I was called a liar by your group.

    I predicted that by Monday it would be back to normal. I was out by two days as the Canadian plants took the time to clean and steralize (which ALL food processing plants do ...whether it is vegetables....drinks (Coca cola has closed its plants numerous times )


    WOW...all of you stopped with YOUR LIES...Your slef proclaimed stories and disappeared. The Canadian Coalition and HSUS took it off their websites.

    Guess Grandins quotes must be old....how long has it been since U.S. had plants operating?

    Bluey has stated and anyone with management experience knows it is MANAGEMENT that determine the philosophy and culture of a business. You think everyone who works for MacDonald's LOVES nasty men and women and their spoiled screaming kids>? NOPE...but they know they will lose their job if they do not grit their teeth and say..."Let me make it right"

    Plants can operate as Fort MacLeod with, video's and incentives.

    Until then...I am STILL waiting Angela, Jenn and the rest of you...What is YOUR solution to take care of 150,000 horses over the next 12 months...without tax payer money.

    Euthanization at whose expense if the people don't have money....should horse sales be outlawed?

    Don't be shy Angela....give me a realistic answer other than..."well' horse owners will have to solve it"



  9. #349
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    Exactly. Just what we need - more government.

    Quote Originally Posted by andylover View Post
    I agree. I think as horse owners we are going to have potentially some type of tracking mechanisms throughout the life of "mine or our' horses in the event the horse potentially ends up in slaughter. Also, tracking of the horse could quite literally end up like that of a cow. So the tracking of horses through transport and sale would be monitord by the government, which brings in with this tracking comes the sale tax which most people dont pay when buying and selling.



  10. #350
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    Andylover it is my understanding that bute was used for people/in people for a while until the negative effects were realized.

    Look at Fura ointment. Who over the age of 35 hasn't slapped that on a horse boo-boo with their bare fingers? That's a big no-no now!

    I dunno who would do the studies to show horse drug X, Y or Z is safe for animals for human consumption because there's no real money in determining that, therefore no investors to fund it. Besides no guinea pigs wanting to sign up to be subjects. Fairfax? Bluey? Interested in being a subject of this study of the drug you says isn't so bad?



  11. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Angela...this is old old old old and not even close to recent information.

    I remember you when the rumour went around that ALL slaughter had been brought to a sudden stop. The Canadian Coalition took CREDIT and actually had one of their members come on COTH and take credit and applaud the end. Their website was almost a love in.

    I called the Republican rep (can't remember her name) and she stated NOPE...it was not due to the EU. I published that and the COTH Cluster group stated...oh yeah...did you call the president...and others just called me a liar when I stated it was NOT on the EU websites. One poster stated she had first hand information and had CALLED the EU and they confirmed Slaughter was over. No more horses from Canada and U.S. They were contaminated etc


    I said NOPE...not so..again I was called a liar by your group.

    I predicted that by Monday it would be back to normal. I was out by two days as the Canadian plants took the time to clean and steralize (which ALL food processing plants do ...whether it is vegetables....drinks (Coca cola has closed its plants numerous times )


    WOW...all of you stopped with YOUR LIES...Your slef proclaimed stories and disappeared. The Canadian Coalition and HSUS took it off their websites.

    Guess Grandins quotes must be old....how long has it been since U.S. had plants operating?

    Bluey has stated and anyone with management experience knows it is MANAGEMENT that determine the philosophy and culture of a business. You think everyone who works for MacDonald's LOVES nasty men and women and their spoiled screaming kids>? NOPE...but they know they will lose their job if they do not grit their teeth and say..."Let me make it right"

    Plants can operate as Fort MacLeod with, video's and incentives.

    Until then...I am STILL waiting Angela, Jenn and the rest of you...What is YOUR solution to take care of 150,000 horses over the next 12 months...without tax payer money.

    Euthanization at whose expense if the people don't have money....should horse sales be outlawed?

    Don't be shy Angela....give me a realistic answer other than..."well' horse owners will have to solve it"
    Soon as you answer why you think a feedlot is the answer to Bute



  12. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    I guess I have missed them

    Will you please list ten that will "cure" the excess inventory by even 150,000 in one year and NOT cost the tax payer money.

    The tax payer does pay for government inspectors but the industry from truckers to slaughter plants pay taxes, state taxes, gasoline taxes, etc.

    One point made quite some time ago was interesting. It claimed HSUS and its groups want the tax payer to be stuck with major bills. As times are tough they (taxpayers) wqill scream for an end of ALL horse breeding OR at the very best...very high taxes with a forever clause where the breeder must support the horses they bred. They know this will destroy the industry. According to employment stats in the U.S. the equine industry is one of the top FIVE employers of individuals with less than grade 9 speaks volumes. It is, also one of the highest employers of ethnic groups with limited english speaking abilities. Restaurants (dishwashers) listed as number one)

    Donating horses to cat sanctuaries is a great suggestion....but for those with no money..it is not possible.

    What were the others again...?? Thanks
    Well, (by jenm or jetsmom, i think) one was for the owner to shoot it and then butcher the horse for their own consumption. How is this different from sending it to slaughter? I thought horses were "not for human consumption" so slaughter plants were closed all over to stop that? Would you welcome the slaughter of horses if the owners could shoot them before bringing them to the processing plant? Like during deer season? I don't understand your reasoning on this.



  13. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy View Post
    Well, (by jenm or jetsmom, i think) one was for the owner to shoot it and then butcher the horse for their own consumption. How is this different from sending it to slaughter? I thought horses were "not for human consumption" so slaughter plants were closed all over to stop that? Would you welcome the slaughter of horses if the owners could shoot them before bringing them to the processing plant? Like during deer season? I don't understand your reasoning on this.
    eh, details....



  14. #354
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    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...lth-risks.html

    “One would have to eat 500 horse burgers every day in order to run a risk,” Le Foll stated. He borrowed the line from U.K. Chief Medical Officer Dame Sally Davies, who used it just weeks ago to downplay the hazards of eating horse meat adulterated with phenylbutazone during what has turned out to be a massive international food scandal with people in the U.K. being unwittingly subjected to equine flesh.

    Otherwise known as “bute,” the drug is a potent equine painkiller that’s prohibited in horse meat produced by EU trading partners, including the U.S., where 95-100 percent of horses are estimated to be “buted.”

    Although European government ministers claim that the horse-meat debacle is nothing more than a labeling issue, bute poses serious health hazards, according to a growing list of veterinarians as well as the authors of “Association of Phenylbutazone Usage With Horses Bought for Slaughter: A Public-Health Risk.”

    Published in Food and Chemical Toxicology, the research study states that the health hazards associated with bute in horse meat aren’t dose related.

    According to the study, bute causes bone-marrow depression like aplastic anemia, agranulocytosis, thrombocytopenia, leucopenia, pancytopenia, and hemolytic anemia, which are fatal in the vast majority of cases. The elderly are more susceptible than younger adults. The risks for developing bone-marrow depression and other serious effects are heightened because humans metabolize bute into oxyphenbutazone, which also causes bone-marrow depression.

    The study also demonstrates that children are at increased risk of developing aplastic anemia from minute levels of bute and oxyphenbutazone in horse meat, presumably because their bones are still growing. But even very low levels of bute can result in a hypersensitivity reaction in susceptible adults that’s mostly fatal. All of these effects are considered to be idiosyncratic, meaning it is unknown who will be afflicted.

    The National Toxicology Program showed that bute is a carcinogen. In fact, bute can cause chromosomal alterations that lead to cancers like leukemia in humans.

    In amounts lower than those that cause bone-marrow depression, bute can also result in a serum sickness–like illness resulting in “fever, fatigue, malaise, and inflammation of the kidney, swollen glands and an enlarged spleen. A person can end up on dialysis for the rest of their life,” the authors of the peer-reviewed research study wrote in a follow-up letter to the editor.

    Because bute was taken off the market for human use more than a decade ago due to its side effects, no long-term studies have been or will be conducted. No safe levels were set by food-safety regulators. Therefore, the drug was banned for all animals intended for human consumption, and there is no withdrawal time.

    As the USDA’s Food Safety and Inspection Service stated back in 2007, “phenylbutazone is considered to be one of the most toxic non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. It is not approved for use in food animals and there are no regulatory limits, such as acceptable daily intake or safe concentration for meat, established by the Food and Drug Administration. Therefore, the presence of any amount of phenylbutazone in food animal tissue will be considered a violation and likely to be unsafe for human consumption.”

    Dr. Nicholas Dodman, who co-authored the peer-reviewed paper with Dr. Ann Marini and Dr. Nicolas Blondeau back in 2010, points to other drugs besides bute that are banned in horses (or other animals) intended for human consumption but that are also found in horse meat entering the food supply.

    Horses—and particularly racehorses—are walking pharmacies. “Eating them is about as healthful as eating food contaminated with DDT,” says Dodman, a professor of clinical sciences at Tufts University’s Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine and the director of its Animal Behavior Clinic.

    Pick up a container of phenylbutazone, clenbuterol, Banamine, or Regu-Mate, for example, and the label clearly states: “WARNING: Do Not Use in Horses Intended for Human Consumption.”

    That same label exists on an extensive list of other commonly used equine drugs banned for years by the FDA, along with Canadian and EU food-regulatory authorities, among others. They include painkillers, tranquilizers, bronchodilators, anabolic steroids, wormers, ulcer medications, diuretics, antibiotics, fertility drugs, and more.

    That list includes drugs that are carcinogens and drugs so toxic that a protective mask and gloves must be worn by anyone who handles them. Some drugs can cause miscarriages; others cause gastrointestinal and renal toxicity; still others can induce feminization in men and masculinization in women. And that’s just for starters.



  15. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    eh, details....
    I was confused because those who oppose slaughter were saying that owners should eat their own horses as an option to slaughter. Aren't they opposed to horses being used for human consumption in the first place? I think the post was on page 10.



  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    Soon as you answer why you think a feedlot is the answer to Bute
    The feedlot allows the horss to be drug free for six months. That will protect the Asian market. Horses that have had bute etc MAY or may not test positive. That is why the next test that can give results while the horse is alive will be so very important.

    The EU has very few facilities and their requirement for import is not substantiated by their own practices. They import from the eastern European countries, horses without any passport.

    The tests regarding Bute and cancer are still disputed by some pretty big names. I do not know if the claims are true or not.

    Now...your answer is?



  17. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy View Post
    I was confused because those who oppose slaughter were saying that owners should eat their own horses as an option to slaughter. Aren't they opposed to horses being used for human consumption in the first place? I think the post was on page 10.
    it's the round about argument.
    You know, eating the cake while keeping it....

    it's like musical chairs, just without taking chairs out. You point to one flawed argument, we skip to the next, and so on and so forth.



  18. #358
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    95% quote for horses with Bute has been disputed and PROVEN not to be correct. As a matter of fact the majority of the horses tend to be not handled, not registered etc. People without money...or who are "puppy farming for foals" do NOT spend money for anything from vaccinations etc. That is according to DEFHR, HSUS regarding the LACK of care given by most "breeders or producers".

    Many of the vets have a vested interest. They are sponsored by and paid for by HSUS.

    Dr. Bells Veterinary Medical Wonder Cure was the best tonic for strangles. It to was removed by the USDA as unsafe for people as it contained Belladonna.

    Products and drugs are suspended for use in the food chain as it is felt...better to be safe than sued.

    This is from an artice"

    Last week a scientific paper appeared that reported that eating genetically modified (GM) corn causes cancer in rats. Specifically, the scientists fed Roundup Ready® corn, or maize, to rats for two years, and reported that both females and males developed cancer and died at higher rates than controls.


    So what’s wrong? The best way to find out is to read the paper, which I did. It turns out to be a very badly designed study, and the report itself omits many crucial details that may (and probably do) completely invalidate the findings. The scientists leading the study have a strongly biased agenda and a conflict of interest, which they failed to reveal. I’ll explain below, but meanwhile this study has already been taken up by politicians as proof (proof!) that GMO crops are harmful. As Forbes blogger Tim Worstall explained, this paper is more politics than science.

    Here is the article

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensa...-flawed-study/

    The study on bute is NOT conclusive



  19. #359
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    duplicate post



  20. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    TG even stated in an interview done w/in the last few yrs that she could go into the horse slaughter plant that she helped design in CA, and everything would be fine while she was there, but as soon as her back was turned it would be full of humane violations. That was fairly recently and at a state of the art facility.
    It's on video in a variety of places if you google it.
    I remember that Video, Saw it not too long ago. BUT I thought there was Video in some of the CAttle processing plants in CA because of actual abuse there last year. IT was 24 /7 and monitored over the internet. And things cleaned up very well.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



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