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  1. #321
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    Following a line of postings of employees who work on the line to the slaughterhouse: I wonder how many employees end up with some type of PTSD? I cant imagine what the employees go through and how desperate or how one can have the mentality or personality to perform the task of running the kill box?


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  2. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    The problems exist, the plants in our country are presently closed because, in part, of those issues. *I* don't have to do anything.

    You want them to re-open? It's not up to me to prove that they are ____ [as cited by my links], but for those who want them to re-open to show that they will not again be as they were- horrible neighbors for years, horrible employers for years, inhumane, focusing on the bottom line,...

    It's not up to me, it's up to you. So far you've offered nothing of the sort of proof one would like to see to feel comfortable that it will, in fact, be run differently.

    And dear Fairfax, as enlightened as you may be, you can't possibly know what anyone does/does not do about the other issues you've thrown onto the pile.
    I understand your point so to take it to the next level...unless all fast food can prove they do not have not and will not EVER hire an illegal, they should all be shut down.

    Unless car manufactures can prove that all cars will be safe no one can buy one and no one can work at a plant that manufactures them.

    You want a standard that is unattainable.

    How about..you won't write on the slaughter issue ujntil you have travelled to Canada and viewed all of the plants to prove or disprove what I have printed. Now THAT would be productive..


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  3. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    I understand your point so to take it to the next level...unless all fast food can prove they do not have not and will not EVER hire an illegal, they should all be shut down.

    Unless car manufactures can prove that all cars will be safe no one can buy one and no one can work at a plant that manufactures them.

    You want a standard that is unattainable.

    How about..you won't write on the slaughter issue ujntil you have travelled to Canada and viewed all of the plants to prove or disprove what I have printed. Now THAT would be productive..
    As is typical don't address any of the real issues, but instead ask what someone else is doing to solve your problem.

    It's not my standard, it's USDA/FSISs and OSHAs and the EUs

    Cavel was the newest plant built in the US in 2004, and look how that turned out:

    Cavel International in Illionis was a sparkling new, purpose built facility that re-opened in June, 2004 with a state-of-the-art pre-treatment system.
    Cavel International even had special Industrial Waste Permits that allowed much higher (8 times higher) contamination levels for wastewater leaving the slaughter house. But Cavel was still out of compliance. And not just a few times. This facility was in significant non-compliance hundreds of times. In one report, a Cavel employee acknowledges “chunks” from slaughtered horses were oozing out of tanks. This does not include the numerous safety violations documented by the FSIS.


    http://tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com/2...mental-impact/


    And while you insist things are being done better in your area at the plants you visit, not one cite or link to information about those improvements or addressing the very real issues that the EU has with the lack of passports for US horses that WILL bite all those pro in the backside, whether plants are opened/built here in the US or not.



  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by andylover View Post
    Following a line of postings of employees who work on the line to the slaughterhouse: I wonder how many employees end up with some type of PTSD? I cant imagine what the employees go through and how desperate or how one can have the mentality or personality to perform the task of running the kill box?
    Most of the employees on kill floors for any species tend to be European for several reasons. The men tend to have large phyusiques than Asians and it is a physically demanding job.

    Most Europeans, especially from the eastern countires are involved in butchering and meat cutting. It is an easy transition to a kill floor.

    I guess one could take your statement and wonder how someone could embalm a dead person. Or how about the person who eviscerates a human body...or a vet who does that to a large animal. They are all working on a dead body of flesh. I could not do an autopsy checking for cancer. I did see one ONCE and the smell sickened me. Becuase I won't do it doesn't mean others shouldn't.

    Still ..no solutions that would successfully eliminate the number of horses slaughtered..

    Ya Basta


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  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by andylover View Post
    Following a line of postings of employees who work on the line to the slaughterhouse: I wonder how many employees end up with some type of PTSD? I cant imagine what the employees go through and how desperate or how one can have the mentality or personality to perform the task of running the kill box?
    The emerging literature, including a study by the University of Windsor, on the psychological effects of slaughterhouse work on humans is startling

    As slaughterhouse workers are increasingly being treated for post-traumatic stress disorder, researchers are finally starting to systematically explore the results of killing sentient animals for a living.

    Amy Fitzgerald, a criminology professor at the University of Windsor in Canada, has found a strong correlation between the presence of a large slaughterhouse and high crime rates in U.S. communities


    http://www.texasobserver.org/ptsd-in...laughterhouse/

    More here [warning, graphic]
    http://occupyforanimals.wix.com/meat...e-workers/czcf

    I am going to guess that the workers also do not have the kind of insurance that covers counseling and other services they might need.



  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    As is typical don't address any of the real issues, but instead ask what someone else is doing to solve your problem.

    It's not my standard, it's USDA/FSISs and OSHAs and the EUs

    Cavel was the newest plant built in the US in 2004, and look how that turned out:

    Cavel International in Illionis was a sparkling new, purpose built facility that re-opened in June, 2004 with a state-of-the-art pre-treatment system.
    Cavel International even had special Industrial Waste Permits that allowed much higher (8 times higher) contamination levels for wastewater leaving the slaughter house. But Cavel was still out of compliance. And not just a few times. This facility was in significant non-compliance hundreds of times. In one report, a Cavel employee acknowledges “chunks” from slaughtered horses were oozing out of tanks. This does not include the numerous safety violations documented by the FSIS.


    http://tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com/2...mental-impact/


    And while you insist things are being done better in your area at the plants you visit, not one cite or link to information about those improvements or addressing the very real issues that the EU has with the lack of passports for US horses that WILL bite all those pro in the backside, whether plants are opened/built here in the US or not.


    SOLUTION:

    Build water recyucling plants and also have a cleaning facility. Canada is known world wide for its portable water decontamination systems they take to Africa and also took to New Orleans after the hurricane.

    Fort MacLeod facility is NOT on the public system.

    Keep scraping...there will be a bottom to your barrel


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  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    SOLUTION:

    Build water recyucling plants and also have a cleaning facility. Canada is known world wide for its portable water decontamination systems they take to Africa and also took to New Orleans after the hurricane.

    Fort MacLeod facility is NOT on the public system.

    Keep scraping...there will be a bottom to your barrel
    Keep not answering the question, what good are slaughter plants for US horses if the EU wants passports for all in July.



  8. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    And you know that "circuses are disgusting" because?

    We used to start colts for the circus, our riding school is where one circus would board their animals thru the winter, the older lion in a box stall right in the barn, the small elephant and assorted other critters in our cross country field, right around the permanent jumps.
    Made for some interesting training.

    The circus had their own employees taking care of their animals and they did an excellent job.
    Their animals were treated like family, which in a way were to them.
    They didn't just come by to feed and clean after them, but spent time with them, groomed them to a t, did some playing/training and the animals were looking for ward to them coming.

    Now, again, what do you know about how circuses are run, to be so cavalier about them?
    More animal rights extremist stories, videos and propaganda?
    Just curious: When did your barn house circus animals and when did you train "colts" for the circus? If it was decades ago in Europe, I'll bet your expereince will not equate to the modern way of circuses.

    I personally no nothing about any current circus and haven't been to one for many, many years. I have no idea how they care for the animals in 2013, but I'm sure it is vastly different than how they cared for them 50 years ago.



  9. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    The emerging literature, including a study by the University of Windsor, on the psychological effects of slaughterhouse work on humans is startling

    As slaughterhouse workers are increasingly being treated for post-traumatic stress disorder, researchers are finally starting to systematically explore the results of killing sentient animals for a living.

    Amy Fitzgerald, a criminology professor at the University of Windsor in Canada, has found a strong correlation between the presence of a large slaughterhouse and high crime rates in U.S. communities


    http://www.texasobserver.org/ptsd-in...laughterhouse/

    I am going to guess that the workers also do not have the kind of insurance that covers counseling and other services they might need.
    She also stated the Police and Fire Departments should closely monitor ALL their employees as they may develope a criminal association syndrdome and she also stated that all Police and firemen..note MEN and note ALL require home monitoring for spousal abuse due to their dealing with the bottom feeders in a community.

    Many times there is a disconnect between the workers and language in a community. Brooks Alberta, which she studied has a large slaughter house. It is primarily staffed by Somalians. There is a disconnect with the community and there is a problem with youth and drugs that has developed.

    This is a result of an ethnic infusion into a community and has little to nothing to do with actual employment. Her paper gave her 15 minutes of fame but it was important for communities to see issues they could resolve.

    Most Canadians and Americans do not want to work on a kill floor.



  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    Keep not answering the question, what good are slaughter plants for US horses if the EU wants passports for all in July.
    They will process horses in the US and drive the RARAs crazy.


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  11. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispatcher View Post
    Just curious: When did your barn house circus animals and when did you train "colts" for the circus? If it was decades ago in Europe, I'll bet your expereince will not equate to the modern way of circuses.

    I personally no nothing about any current circus and haven't been to one for many, many years. I have no idea how they care for the animals in 2013, but I'm sure it is vastly different than how they cared for them 50 years ago.
    Like about all animal husbandry has changed over the last 50 years.
    So what is your point?

    Unlike us who keep horses - and other animals - as diversion and for pleasure, Circus people rely on them for their daily bread.
    A happy and relaxed animal performs well, an ill, unkempt critter is bad fr business.

    And while Knie is probably not the norm in terms of circuses, it certainly had a very high standard of care back in the 790 and 80s, I think on par of what we expect today, and renowned equestrians sought out their advice. Christine Stuckleberger among them. And their horses were commented on by experts to be in excellent shape, even at the - by standards back then - advanced age of 23.

    There was a very nice documentary about them in the 80s, the circus took an off day, all horses were leasurely hacked about town, and into the lake for a swim, all 100 or so stallions, by people who normally had no interaction with them, lighting technicians, musicians, ticket takers.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  12. #332
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    Angela..you have not asked that as a singular question but here goes AGAIN

    Remember EQUINE FEEDLOTS?

    They have been functioining for over one year now.

    EU is very impressed according to their last visit. They do not have that in their own countries



  13. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Most of the employees on kill floors for any species tend to be European for several reasons. The men tend to have large phyusiques than Asians and it is a physically demanding job.

    Most Europeans, especially from the eastern countires are involved in butchering and meat cutting. It is an easy transition to a kill floor.

    I guess one could take your statement and wonder how someone could embalm a dead person. Or how about the person who eviscerates a human body...or a vet who does that to a large animal. They are all working on a dead body of flesh. I could not do an autopsy checking for cancer. I did see one ONCE and the smell sickened me. Becuase I won't do it doesn't mean others shouldn't.

    Still ..no solutions that would successfully eliminate the number of horses slaughtered..

    Ya Basta
    There is a big difference between embalming an already deceased person as there is a big difference to a vet euth'ing an animal due to the health issues of a ill animal. Taking the life of a viable animal who was probably someones pet is completely different and doing that hundreds of time a day is not the same as morticians or vets.


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  14. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    SOLUTION:

    Build water recyucling plants and also have a cleaning facility. Canada is known world wide for its portable water decontamination systems they take to Africa and also took to New Orleans after the hurricane.

    Fort MacLeod facility is NOT on the public system.

    Keep scraping...there will be a bottom to your barrel
    So Fort McLeod is your pinnacle of how it should be done?


    http://www.animalsangels.org/images/...gary%20Ltd.pdf


    On December 3, 2010, the Bouvry Exports horse slaughter plant in Fort MacLeod, Alberta closed operations to complete renovations related to sanitation.[12]
    [12] Press Release; Canadian Horse Defence Coalition; http://tiny.cc/n6nx7 ; Dec. 10, 2010.



    Fort McLeod is the site of a slaughterhouse run by Bouvry Exports Ltd., where many horses are sent for slaughter. *The plant was the subject of *an investigation by the Canadian Horse Defence Coalition in 2010, which found evidence that horses were being killed inhumanely. *The CHDC revealed video footage*showing horses at the slaughterhouse being shot and then hoisted away by their legs while still fully conscious.

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...IP9buk&ct=clnk



    On a very serious note,* please check out these undercover videos of Bouvry,* submitted to the Canadian Horse Defence Coalition (and verified by the Canadian government) – CAUTION – GRAPHIC.*

    It is because of these very drugs that Bouvry and Richelieu slaughterhouses in Canada previously issued a statement that they would no longer accept Thoroughbreds for slaughter.


    [both the above 2 paragraphs incl links to the actual information/documents/video]

    “This includes the non-steroidal, anti-inflammatory drug, Phenylbutazone (also known as “bute”), a painkiller given to 90% of U.S. horses and nearly all racehorses on and before race day. Bute is a known human carcinogen. With no acceptable withdrawal period, even a single dose in any animal sold for meat is banned by the EU, FDA and USDA.”

    A feedlot won't fix the bute problem now will it?


    http://heatherclemenceau.wordpress.c.../fort-macleod/



  15. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Angela..you have not asked that as a singular question but here goes AGAIN

    Remember EQUINE FEEDLOTS?

    They have been functioining for over one year now.

    EU is very impressed according to their last visit. They do not have that in their own countries
    And yet the EU will not accept horses without passports after July. Feedlot or not.



  16. #336
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  17. #337
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    Angela...the feedlot OWNER will now be able to state the horse has had no bute nor dewormer in 6 months. That is what the passport requires. The test that should be released by Ottawa sometime this year is said to be able to test "while the animal is alive" for the existence of drugs.

    There is already a debate that bute does disperse..this will either prove or disprove.

    Canadian Coalition report was NOT verified as valid by the Canadian Government. THAT was the claim the RARA group...which actively receives support from HSUS and PETA AND acknowledges its assocation with them..stated

    ALL plants close for sanitation.

    Oh yes...I think I addressed the coalition video..on utube...over EIGHT YEARS OLD...altered by them as to date...employees "featured" had not worked at the plant for 8 years AND here is a kicker...one of the featured employees had been DEAD for 6 years. When the plant submitted a copy of his ob...they were accused of putting it in a paper to cover up their activities. RCMP forced them to remove the video from u-tube.

    You had already "recycled" that post from before and I answered it before.

    Major storm here last night...wind blew so hard it blew the centers out of the donuts.



  18. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Like about all animal husbandry has changed over the last 50 years.
    So what is your point?

    Unlike us who keep horses - and other animals - as diversion and for pleasure, Circus people rely on them for their daily bread.
    A happy and relaxed animal performs well, an ill, unkempt critter is bad fr business.

    And while Knie is probably not the norm in terms of circuses, it certainly had a very high standard of care back in the 790 and 80s, I think on par of what we expect today, and renowned equestrians sought out their advice. Christine Stuckleberger among them. And their horses were commented on by experts to be in excellent shape, even at the - by standards back then - advanced age of 23.

    There was a very nice documentary about them in the 80s, the circus took an off day, all horses were leasurely hacked about town, and into the lake for a swim, all 100 or so stallions, by people who normally had no interaction with them, lighting technicians, musicians, ticket takers.....
    I asked because Bluey consistently relates her experiences of many decades ago and thinks the way things are now are just as they were way back when.
    Just because something was a certain way at the point you (generic) were there does not make it true and effective today. Things change.


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  19. #339
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    I see this situation a little differently. If we have horse slaughter in the US again, that will mean we as horse owners will have to be in compliance with the EU regulations. You talk about not wanting to be tracked?? I think that will mean more regulation than you really want to think about.


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  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Angela...the feedlot OWNER will now be able to state the horse has had no bute nor dewormer in 6 months. That is what the passport requires. The test that should be released by Ottawa sometime this year is said to be able to test "while the animal is alive" for the existence of drugs.

    There is already a debate that bute does disperse..this will either prove or disprove.

    Canadian Coalition report was NOT verified as valid by the Canadian Government. THAT was the claim the RARA group...which actively receives support from HSUS and PETA AND acknowledges its assocation with them..stated

    ALL plants close for sanitation.

    Oh yes...I think I addressed the coalition video..on utube...over EIGHT YEARS OLD...altered by them as to date...employees "featured" had not worked at the plant for 8 years AND here is a kicker...one of the featured employees had been DEAD for 6 years. When the plant submitted a copy of his ob...they were accused of putting it in a paper to cover up their activities. RCMP forced them to remove the video from u-tube.

    You had already "recycled" that post from before and I answered it before.

    Major storm here last night...wind blew so hard it blew the centers out of the donuts.
    Farifax, Bute is a never-ever drug on the EUs list. It's not listed as a 6 month withdrawal drug, it's in the never ever column with other drugs we use over here in the US freely and sometimes without any supervision.
    The horse can't have it ever and then be slaughtered for human consumption. So says the EU.

    Here's the info and a list of the other drugs that are 'never-evers':

    And therefore, pursuant to Section 530.41 of Title 21 of US Code of Federal Regulations, several provisions of the Federal Food, Drugs and Cosmetics Act (21 U.S.C. §301 et seq.), provisions of European Commission (EU) Regulation No. 37/2010 and European Council Directive 96/22/EC several medicines commonly used in horse husbandry in the US have been totally banned from use in animals (regardless of species) intended to be slaughtered for human food, notably:

    *Phenylbutazone: Banned for use in all food animals (the label directly indicates it is only for horses not intended for slaughter). In Europe, while phenylbutazone is not included in Table 2 (banned substances) of Commission Regulation No. 37/2010, it is not listed either in Commission (EC) Regulation No. 1950/2006 establishing a list of allowed substances if a six-month withdrawal period is observed, so any animal treated with this drug is categorically excluded from the food chain, particularly horses, whose treatment with this drug must be stated in the European Equine Identification Document (Equine Passport) and subsequently signed out of the food chain in the aforesaid document
    Chloramphenicol
    Clenbuterol (Ventipulmin)
    Diethylstilbestrol (DES)
    Dimetridazole
    Ipronidazole and other nitroimidazoles (including metronidazole)
    *Furazolidone, Nitrofurazone, other nitrofurans
    *Sulfonamides
    Dipyrone
    Dapsone (4-[(4-aminobenzene)sulfonyl]aniline)
    Glycopeptides (antibiotics such as vancomycin)
    Fluoroquinolones
    Gentian violet (Tris(4-(dimethylamino)phenyl)methylium chloride)
    Aristolochic acid (8-methoxy-6-nitrophenanthro[3,4-d][1,3]dioxole-5-carboxylic acid) and preparations thereof
    Chloroform
    Chlorpromazine
    Colchicine
    *Hormonal steroids for growth promotion purposes (testosterone, progesterone, trenbolone and derivatives)
    Anabolic or gestagenic steroids for therapeutic and/or zootechnical purposes (boldenone and estrogens such as 17ßestradiol, estriol, and other sex hormones).
    All ß-agonists (e.g. compounds belonging to the Clenbuterol family)
    Stilbenes ((E)-1,2-Diphenylethene and isomers), salts and esters.
    *Thyrostats (Thyroid hormones, derivatives like Levothyroxine and their agonist such as thiouracils and sulfur-containing imidazoles)


    http://habitatforhorses.wordpress.co...eat-and-drugs/

    *indicates drugs I have used while working in the horse industry


    Your desire to ignore what the EU requires with you're repeating that there will be feedlots and the rest of it kinda' perfectly demonstrates that lack of interest in compliance. Just sayin'


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