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  1. #101
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    So what do they with their viable horses over the winter?



  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abercrombie View Post
    Oh brother; you and your pro-slaughter peeps still shoveling the "slaughter is better than starvation" pablum?

    How about just telling the truth?

    1.) People want a convenient way to dispose of their horse(s)

    2.) The meat, cattle, and livestock industry want to slaughter horses to protect their "slaughter rights" for other animals.

    There? Wasn't that easy?
    And if that were thes sole truth of the matter for every person, if it can be done humanely, and someone wants the product which has been accurately labeled, what is the issue?


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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    So what do they with their viable horses over the winter?

    feed them
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #104
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    No further questions.



  5. #105
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    There are new, well-documented studies that will show that all of the hoopla about bute, roids, etc., in horse meat have been falsified. Just as the 'researchers' scammed the world and made up data to support the false theory of climate change, the rara crowd has made up the data on horse meat contamination. Wild horses living on grass in Colorado register higher levels of all contaminants than the rara's believe should be permitted. Just more cry baby, heart-horse fiction coming from people who may own a dog, but probably have never owned a horse. If horse meat is so bad for you, why is Taco Bell now featuring it in all of its tacos and burritos?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #106
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    Oct. 25, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    This was predicted several years ago. At the time those anti slaughter folks claimed the nasty breeders were still flooding the market.

    The market has curtailed itself and severly dropped.

    Example...American Saddlebreds...stallion reports 2010 just over 1000 filed. 2011 was just over 450 and many of those were for ONE mare..

    Quarter Horse have also stated reduced by 30+% for stallion reports. Those reports are necessary for breeders to fill or it will cost them a LOT of money to register foals

    TB breedings are down and some states now have their facing groups refusing to take entries from trainers who have dumped horses knowing they are going to slaughter.

    The anti slaughter groups refuse to go on tours. As for ranchers...please tell me what is KIND and LOVING about a rancher who turns the old horse out on those thousand of acres...Dry winter...no snow to eat (which is not great for a horse anyway especially when they have not been bred as wildies...therefore small and able to subsist on limited feed. Or...they now are STARVING and in a weakened state are brought down by coyotes, cougars, wolves etc and eaten ALIVE.. Slaugter EVEN if two bolts are used is over in 7-10 seconds. Eating aliver can take up to TEN MINUTES... with the horse SCREAMING.

    Get the picture....

    Jenn..you need to come out west. Cattle are brought up to the ranch for feeding during the winter. They don't just "go where the deer and the antelope play" on thousands of acres when it is 40 F below.

    A quick death for an old horse is kinder than losing weight...suffering the cold and trying to find dried grass under feet of snow.
    Ranchers are decent people, by and large, who would not allow any animal to starve to death if it were within their power to prevent. Virtually all of them have guns and know what to do. I seriously doubt they're turning an oldie loose to fend for himself. Would you?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Ranchers are decent people, by and large, who would not allow any animal to starve to death if it were within their power to prevent. Virtually all of them have guns and know what to do. I seriously doubt they're turning an oldie loose to fend for himself. Would you?
    yeah, but if they shoot them they are still baby eating, puppy kicking ogres....

    can't win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #108
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    Nov. 20, 2007
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    I'm in Oklahoma, and I'm 100% in support of this bill. I hope it passes. You know why? Because I can count a number of pastures where horses are starving to death. They have been abandoned...the owners can not be found. The rescues are over-crowded and can not take in any more animals. We have been under a severe drought for the past 3 years, so hay is a premium if it can be found. The market is flooded, so selling or even giving a way a horse is not an option. I receive email blasts from friends trying to give away their well trained horses, because they can not afford to feed them. It's sad, and I pity those owners. The local sherriff's office is doing all it can to reach out and try and find feed for these horses...but it's tough. There is even a state hotline you can call and post online to if you need hay or have extra to sell.

    Slaughter is not a fate I would ever choose for my own...but seeing horses starving in pastures without hay, grass or feed, is not the answer either. Sending them to Mexico is a horrid way to let them go. Most can not afford to euthanize, so the choices are slim. Having a facility here, would, if nothing else, lessen the distance that these horses have to travel.

    I believe that a well regulated, US facility is the answer. As far as a market for the meat...most goes into dog and cat food or is rendered. Very little is sold for human consumption.
    Unashamed Member of the Dressage Arab Clique
    CRAYOLA POSSE= Thistle


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #109
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    May. 5, 2006
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    1.) People want a convenient way to dispose of their horse(s)

    2.) The meat, cattle, and livestock industry want to slaughter horses to protect their "slaughter rights" for other animals.
    Okay, but what is wrong with having a convenient way to dispose of your horse(s), if you find yourself in the position of needing to do so? Especially if the horse(s) in question has no worth? For every one-hundred people who say, "Oh, just euthanize the ones that you can't find homes for", there is a vet who won't euthanize an animal that isn't in immediate threat of pain or discomfort. Then what do you do? Sometimes the word "convenience" covers more than just because someone felt like doing it.

    There is no reason whatsoever for ranchers to hide behind horse slaughter as a way to protect their own interests. There is no way on God's green earth that the slaughter and consumption of cattle, pigs, chickens (etc.) will EVER be outlawed in this country. We are the land of the Whopper and the home of the McNugget. One of our cultural touchstones revolves around the preparation, cooking and eating of turkey flesh. I don't think we are in danger of losing that any time soon regardless of whether or not horses are being legally slaughtered here.

    Dead is dead. What we do with the body afterward isn't going to change that fact. I just don't understand the problem. If you don't want your horse slaughtered, keep it in your possession for the rest of it's life. if you don't want to eat horse meat, don't eat it. If you think transport and holding systems are inhumane, work to monitor those aspects and make it a more humane process.
    Sheilah


    5 members found this post helpful.

  10. #110
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    Jun. 19, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abercrombie View Post
    Oh brother; you and your pro-slaughter peeps still shoveling the "slaughter is better than starvation" pablum?

    How about just telling the truth?

    1.) People want a convenient way to dispose of their horse(s)

    2.) The meat, cattle, and livestock industry want to slaughter horses to protect their "slaughter rights" for other animals.

    There? Wasn't that easy?
    1. You are correct..nothing wrong with that..

    2. I do not believe it protects the other slaughter livestock...until all meat is banned..it will be legal.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #111
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    Nov. 15, 2005
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blkarab View Post
    I'm in Oklahoma, and I'm 100% in support of this bill. I hope it passes. You know why? Because I can count a number of pastures where horses are starving to death. They have been abandoned...the owners can not be found. The rescues are over-crowded and can not take in any more animals. We have been under a severe drought for the past 3 years, so hay is a premium if it can be found. The market is flooded, so selling or even giving a way a horse is not an option. I receive email blasts from friends trying to give away their well trained horses, because they can not afford to feed them. It's sad, and I pity those owners. The local sherriff's office is doing all it can to reach out and try and find feed for these horses...but it's tough. There is even a state hotline you can call and post online to if you need hay or have extra to sell.

    Slaughter is not a fate I would ever choose for my own...but seeing horses starving in pastures without hay, grass or feed, is not the answer either. Sending them to Mexico is a horrid way to let them go. Most can not afford to euthanize, so the choices are slim. Having a facility here, would, if nothing else, lessen the distance that these horses have to travel.

    I believe that a well regulated, US facility is the answer. As far as a market for the meat...most goes into dog and cat food or is rendered. Very little is sold for human consumption.
    You are obviously not up to speed on what this plant is for, it will be an EU plant for slaughter for human consumption. Most does not go into cat/dog food.

    But then if we're going to have to also debate that climate change is real... I guess the opportunity for cogent discussion has passed.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #112
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Ranchers are decent people, by and large, who would not allow any animal to starve to death if it were within their power to prevent. Virtually all of them have guns and know what to do. I seriously doubt they're turning an oldie loose to fend for himself. Would you?

    Ranchers are like any other human, just as doctors, policemen, teachers, priests, office or factory workers, horse trainers, backyard horse owners, rescues, parents, you name it.
    Most humans are good and trying hard to do their best and above.
    Some are not very good or clueless.
    Some are not worth killing, careless and abusers of all kinds.
    Humans are humans and come in all kinds.
    Luckily, most are the good kind of human.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    So what do they with their viable horses over the winter?
    Mary

    Cattle are taken to summer pastures after calves are tagged, branded and everyone given their vaccinations.

    They are moved to government leases OR privately owned property and the cattle do intermingle.

    Usually in October they are brought back to the ranch. While some ranchers will have open areas (i.e.) one section of land and they use tractors or snow mobiles to get hay out to them, many have their own wind protected feed lots. Here the using horses are still worked moving cattle around and checking on them for health or injury issues. These horses work EVERY DAY ...so do the men...40 below..they are still working

    This is not an environment to just put one or two horses into..and as for her comment about turning them out on a thousand acres...well..I already said...why not


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #114
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    Apr. 22, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    oh, gimme a break.
    it's not like the threads are started under the assumption there won't be any controversy.

    bring me facts and arguments, we can discuss it til the cows come home.

    once we enter the land of hyperbole and fiction it becomes a bit harder not to be sarcastic!

    Horses are not some mythical noble creature that single handedly shaped the Western world. Heck, The Huns ate their horses, the Mongols still do, I guess we can agree their culture is shaped by horse, much more than ours ever was.

    It is usually a matter of 'if you are for slaughter, you are a puppy kicking meany'
    which is bogus.
    although I do have to admit, I am having a hard time taking pro ban people serious. And not because I love the smell of blood in the morning, but because the failed argument of how the horse is so much more special than other barn yard creatures.
    Horses are tasty meat creatures, like the est of them.
    Cows have interesting personalities and social structures, to a larger extend than horses, actually, pigs are way smarter than horses....

    AAnd hyperbole as argument just does not sit well with me, like all horse slaughter is always cruel, all transport is always cruel, etc, no horse is ever put down with the first shot...
    all the horses are medicated...

    As the articles show about the horses that did test positive for bute, about 4 percent are believed to have tested positive and made it into the food chain...

    NOW, the little math test: how much bute do you have to give a horse that a - lets be generous - 12 once serving could cause harm to a person! 1200 grams? more? Less?
    How much contaminated horse does a person have to eat to get sick? one helping in his lifetime? 10 each day?

    Aside from the fact that we know enough people who do not give basic care to their horses, nor feed, what are the chances they sell to the kill buyer, over the pampered pet horse....staggering I'd say....
    My point.
    "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp



  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Ranchers are decent people, by and large, who would not allow any animal to starve to death if it were within their power to prevent. Virtually all of them have guns and know what to do. I seriously doubt they're turning an oldie loose to fend for himself. Would you?
    My response was to her "let them go out and eat the grass on the thousands of acres". You are correct. Most ranchers use the bullet.

    In our case, we keep all of them and they are euthanized when they fail. We are lucky as the ranch has been in the same hands with our family since 1876 even though it has been reduced in size. Between 1910 and 1960 the ranch had 30 + full time cattlehands and around 300 horses...we bred our own..


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #116
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    Apr. 22, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    But then if we're going to have to also debate that climate change is real... I guess the opportunity for cogent discussion has passed.
    Love this.
    "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #117
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    Nov. 20, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    You are obviously not up to speed on what this plant is for, it will be an EU plant for slaughter for human consumption. Most does not go into cat/dog food.

    But then if we're going to have to also debate that climate change is real... I guess the opportunity for cogent discussion has passed.
    I don't care if the plant is for feeding tiny, green alien men...if it gives horse owners a more humane way to let go of the horses they can no longer afford to feed, rather than letting them starve to death in the pasture, then I'm all for it.

    There are many cases of starvation going on right in my own county. Our dressage club has even taken hay out to these horses, but it's only a temporary fix. The rescues can not take them in...they are already over crowded and funding is very limited. Attempts have been made to find the owners..they long moved away, leaving the horses to fend for themselves in a tiny pasture. No hay, no water source, no feed.

    Yep, it's quite apparent you are way past the point of having a cogent discussion.

    The only thing that climate change has to do with this discussion, is the fact that it has affected our weather in such a way, that we can't grow grass, and have winters with 22" of snow on the ground.
    Last edited by Blkarab; Mar. 1, 2013 at 06:52 PM. Reason: spelling
    Unashamed Member of the Dressage Arab Clique
    CRAYOLA POSSE= Thistle



  18. #118
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    Just as a note if any of you saw Brokeback Mountain...some of that was filmed on our property and Lonesome Ranch, west of Claresholm.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  19. #119
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    Nov. 15, 2005
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    NY
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    Blkarab
    Originally Posted by Angela Freda
    You are obviously not up to speed on what this plant is for, it will be an EU plant for slaughter for human consumption. Most does not go into cat/dog food.

    But then if we're going to have to also debate that climate change is real... I guess the opportunity for cogent discussion has passed.
    I don't care if the plant is for feeding tiny, green alien men...if it gives horse owners a more humane way to let go of the horses they can no longer afford to feed, rather than letting them starve to death in the pasture, then I'm all for it.

    There are many cases of starvation going on right in my own county. Our dressage club has even taken hay out to these horses, but it's only a temporary fix. The rescues can not take them in...they are already over crowded and funding is very limited. Attempts have been made to find the owners..they long moved away, leaving the horses to fend for themselves in a tiny pasture. No hay, no water source, no feed.

    Yep, it's quite apparent you are way past the point of having a cogent discussion.

    The only thing that climate change has to do with this discussion, is the fact that it has affected our weather in such a way, that we can't grow grass, and have winters with 22" of snow on the ground.


    Tell your friend that...:


    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    There are new, well-documented studies that will show that all of the hoopla about bute, roids, etc., in horse meat have been falsified. Just as the 'researchers' scammed the world and made up data to support the false theory of climate change, the rara crowd has made up the data on horse meat contamination. Wild horses living on grass in Colorado register higher levels of all contaminants than the rara's believe should be permitted. Just more cry baby, heart-horse fiction coming from people who may own a dog, but probably have never owned a horse. If horse meat is so bad for you, why is Taco Bell now featuring it in all of its tacos and burritos?
    ... I've gotta' go put some tin foil on.... dinner.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  20. #120
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    Nov. 20, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Just as a note if any of you saw Brokeback Mountain...some of that was filmed on our property and Lonesome Ranch, west of Claresholm.
    Very cool, Fairfax!!!
    Unashamed Member of the Dressage Arab Clique
    CRAYOLA POSSE= Thistle


    1 members found this post helpful.

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