[katarine]

Cowboy Dressage is going to have a hard time getting offered at schooling shows b/c of the extra letters and all those poles.

The GMO I'm in elected to offer NAWD tests. Our judge for our Spring show is an L grad and was happy to judge it. I like the stricter tack rules found in NAWD, and the use of traditional letters, court, size, etc. We're happy to offer it.

[Velvet]

Five pages? Mike is having paroxysms of joy.

[ThreeFigs]

Indeed, Fella is not a Friesian, but it's one of the shows on WDAA that has Western Dressage competition that is open to all breeds. It's as close to where I live as any of the shows come this year -3 hours away.

October 2-6, 2013
The IFSHA World and National Grand Championship
International Friesian Show Horse Association
Virginia Horse Center - Lexington, VA
www.ifshaworld.com

Paula

Aah! That answers the question!

[ThreeFigs]

Ooh, good point, Katarine. Hopefully those "extra" letters and larger sized court will work against "Cowboy Dressage" and FOR either WDAA or NAWD.

[Sannois]

That's nice.. TRail class?
Why does it have to have anything with Dressage at all.
Its pattern riding. Good for them. Not belittling it , it is not Dressage.

[Isabeau Z Solace]

Looks like fun. They have cooler letters Q and Y!! (Note to FEI, how about letters that don't sound the same Cee Gee Bee Pee Dee Vee Eee ) and far spiffier outfits that allow for lots more decorating of the horse/rider pair.

[Foxtrot's]

BTW Mike Matson does not post just to cause a rukkus - he is just a nice guy who finds interesting stuff for the rest of us to enjoy/comment on. It is not his m.o. at all - but some people may chose to turn it into a COTH special.

[cnm161]

Why is it that all these threads end up assuming dressage riders (author always excepted) don't have experience in other disciplines?

[Kyzteke]

What a mess!! Looks like someone mixed trail classes with equitation. Unfortunately the only thing this class had in common with actual "dressage" is the name.

WTC, back & stop are NOT dressage movements, they are the basics of riding ANY horse.

But ALL the valid "schools" of dressage require riding a horse in a series of movements which are described in detail; each one is to be done in a certain manner, form and with a certain energy. What is the point of cluttering up the arena with all these props when the riders can't do the movements without the props?

I just don't see anything in this class other than basic stuff.

Why or why is it being linked with "dressage?" This I just can't get, because there is ZERO commonality between either dressage/Dressage and this stuff.

Can't the western folk just come up with another name for this? OR (here's a shocking suggestion ) just actually try to do the real live discipline of European dressage!!!

[duecavalle]

That's nice.. TRail class?
Why does it have to have anything with Dressage at all.
Its pattern riding. Good for them. Not belittling it , it is not Dressage.

Precisely. It's fine, wonderful, nothing wrong with it. Stock horses are cool. Nifty chaps. It just is not dressage.

If us "pure dressage" riders decided we wanted to try something new with our "cutesy pootsy", "dumbed down war horses" in our white breeches and shads, and say... cut cats instead of cattle, separating them into crates instead of pens and dubbed it English Cutting, I wonder what the Western world would think. Especially if there were three separate organizations that all promoted English Cat Cutting but with three sets of completely different rules. How credible would we be? Herding cats in our dressage gear would no doubt require some serious training and skill and would probably be a fascinating spectator sport, but would it really be Cutting?

[Kyzteke]

the plan is to train judges from the Western world to judge Western dressage.

Riding is riding.

No, it is not. I lack the technological know-how, but I wish some techno-whiz on this board would do a split screen video of a champion WP ride and a champion GP dressage ride.

Then tell me "riding is riding."

Also, they better get to work on those western judges in terms of recognizing "purity of gaits." Because those guys seem to think that the 4 beat travesty that wins in WP classes is a lope/canter. How can any group of people who routinely reward that unnatural embarrassment to humanity and term it an actual GAIT, ever grasp purity of gaits?

I guess I just don't understand why it has to have the word "dressage" hung on it? Call it Western Patterns or Pattern Challenge or Jogging Around the Arena Doing Stuff class....whatever. Just don't get the "dressage" angle...

[paulaedwina]

Herding cats! The cowboys beat you to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8

Paula

[skydy]

Precisely. It's fine, wonderful, nothing wrong with it. Stock horses are cool. Nifty chaps. It just is not dressage.

If us "pure dressage" riders decided we wanted to try something new with our "cutesy pootsy", "dumbed down war horses" in our white breeches and shads, and say... cut cats instead of cattle, separating them into crates instead of pens and dubbed it English Cutting, I wonder what the Western world would think. Especially if there were three separate organizations that all promoted English Cat Cutting but with three sets of completely different rules. How credible would we be? Herding cats in our dressage gear would no doubt require some serious training and skill and would probably be a fascinating spectator sport, but would it really be Cutting?

English Cat Cutting! I can't wait!

[duecavalle]

Herding cats! The cowboys beat you to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7yqlTMvp8

Paula

haha! Love it!

[paulaedwina]

No, it is not. I lack the technological know-how, but I wish some techno-whiz on this board would do a split screen video of a champion WP ride and a champion GP dressage ride.

Then tell me "riding is riding."



Also, they better get to work on those western judges in terms of recognizing "purity of gaits." Because those guys seem to think that the 4 beat travesty that wins in WP classes is a lope/canter. How can any group of people who routinely reward that unnatural embarrassment to humanity and term it an actual GAIT, ever grasp purity of gaits?

I guess I just don't understand why it has to have the word "dressage" hung on it? Call it Western Patterns or Pattern Challenge or Jogging Around the Arena Doing Stuff class....whatever. Just don't get the "dressage" angle...

I think we have consensus that WP isn't really riding and those aren't really horses. There are no 4 beat canters in WD for the record. Not in CD either I believe.

ETA: Some propose that one of the reasons WD has such a following was the dissatisfaction with WP and it's unnatural gaits.

Paula

[ThreeFigs]

You're right, Paula.

WP, IMO, is NOT good horsemanship. It is, as one poster implied earlier, an arena competition that has nothing whatsoever to do with WESTERN riding. (i.e., "competition cutting" has little to do with the sorting and "mothering up" that working cowhands do...)

I would think everyone here agrees that the gaits in the typical WP class are NOT pure. Many former (and currently dissatisfied) WP riders see "Western Dressage" as a way to get back to purer gaits and more correct basic horsemanship. Y'all see anything wrong with that? Just because it's not what YOU want to produce does not make it bad. WD,whatever you may think of it, is a marked improvement over WP.

When I say "riding is riding", THAT's what I mean. NOT the pursuit of the Tranter or Trope. Good riding. Correct riding. Trying to do things better, regardless of the tack.

Sheesh.

[Bristol Bay]

I for one am sick of seeing threads on this topic. It's not dressage.

http://www.usdf.org/press/news/view-news.asp?news=643

Go over to the western forum and discuss it.

[skydy]

It does seem misplaced on this forum. I think these threads are placed here by some folks, instead of on the Western forum, to bait dressage riders for entertainment purposes.

Many people complained about the lack of a Western forum ,and now that their wish has been granted they are not spending much time there..

[paulaedwina]

I imagine if this were indeed the case the moderators would just move the thread. I imagine since it is Western Dressage some people prefer to talk about dressage on the dressage board. I am sure, for example, there are eventers who talk about dressage here too.

I am not sure I would just conclude that the posters who do come here to discuss WD are just baiting. They might actually want to talk about the dressage aspect. Unfortunately too often others just use the opportunity to repeat their contempt about WD so instead of, for example in this thread, speaking about how the original video's rider did, the thread is reduced again to discussions about how this isn't really dressage, that WD is a bastardization of TD, why is this thread here, etc. I am still hopeful that we could actually discuss the dressage aspect of the Cowboy Dressage video that was posted originally.

Look, at this stage WD and CD are not going to get shouted away. They're here, people are competing, some may want to talk about it. One can always exercise one's right to ignore the threads that one finds so offensive.

Paula

[alibi_18]

I imagine if this were indeed the case the moderators would just move the thread. I imagine since it is Western Dressage some people prefer to talk about dressage on the dressage board. I am sure, for example, there are eventers who talk about dressage here too.

I am not sure I would just conclude that the posters who do come here to discuss WD are just baiting. They might actually want to talk about the dressage aspect. Unfortunately too often others just use the opportunity to repeat their contempt about WD so instead of, for example in this thread, speaking about how the original video's rider did, the thread is reduced again to discussions about how this isn't really dressage, that WD is a bastardization of TD, why is this thread here, etc. I am still hopeful that we could actually discuss the dressage aspect of the Cowboy Dressage video that was posted originally.

Look, at this stage WD and CD are not going to get shouted away. They're here, people are competing, some may want to talk about it. One can always exercise one's right to ignore the threads that one finds so offensive.

Paula

Eventing as a dressage phase. It is dressage, so of course they are coming on the dressage board to talk about dressage.

Cowboy dressage is not dressage. There is no dressage aspect in this video that we can discuss apart from the use of letters and the name. It is a western discipline.