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  1. #1

    Default Unique perspective on the horsemeat scandal...

    I admit it. I laughed.

    http://jezebel.com/5986919/fuck-yes-...ium=socialflow

    Here's a snippet:
    A cute baby animal is a cute baby animal, and in the grand scheme of things—our vast, lonely universe that I happen to believe is meaningless anyway—this sacred difference between a horse and a cow is just a combo of semantics and cultural elitism. "Oh, we would never eat a horse! We're too good to eat horses! I mean, sure, we'll ENSLAVE ALL OF THEM AND RIDE ON THEIR BACKS AND SHOOT THEM IN THE HEAD IF THEY DON'T RUN FAST ENOUGH, but we wouldn't eat one. Who do we look like—the French?" I don't think it's honest and I don't think it's fair to all the non-horse animal dudes out there getting eaten by smug Americans willy-nilly.
    Last edited by JCS; Feb. 26, 2013 at 03:49 PM.


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  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    Here:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #4
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    LOVE IT! and I totally agree with the points she makes!


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  5. #5
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    As a vegetarian I bring up the "why is a giant hunk of horse different than a giant hunk of cow?" argument all the time and all I get are the anti-slaughter fanatics whining about "best fwiends!!!!!! EMOTIONAL BONDS!!!!! PETS!!!! WOULD YOU EAT YOUR GRANDMOTHER YOU HEATHEN?!?!!"


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  6. #6

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    I think I am going to steal this in particular: "That is a rhetorical question and if anyone sends me any Wikipedia links I'm shutting the internet down."


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  7. #7
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    Blame it on the French AGAIN.... sigh
    will read the article later... but I have to go and hug my mare!



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoForAGallop View Post
    As a vegetarian I bring up the "why is a giant hunk of horse different than a giant hunk of cow?" argument all the time and all I get are the anti-slaughter fanatics whining about "best fwiends!!!!!! EMOTIONAL BONDS!!!!! PETS!!!! WOULD YOU EAT YOUR GRANDMOTHER YOU HEATHEN?!?!!"
    I am not a vegetarian, but the same argument. My cousins always did 4H animals – cows, turkeys, pigs. Those animals were raised with love and care like a pet. The cows were handled often, taught how to lead and stand for shows, groomed and fluffed – and cared for.

    They had great personalities, and were fun animals (pigs as well, but I wasn’t so wild about the turkeys!)

    Any way, they were well fed, handled, and loved – and then auctioned off to meat buyers at the county fair.

    Edited to add - and my family would always buy some of that 4H meat. Its nice to know the animal you are eating had a good life up till the dinner plate.


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  9. #9
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    I disagree with 4-H for the same reason I disagree with eating horses... an animal being raised to be food should be treated as such. Raising an animal as a pet and then slaughtering it seems like lieing to the animal and seems wrong.


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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by fourmares View Post
    I disagree with 4-H for the same reason I disagree with eating horses... an animal being raised to be food should be treated as such. Raising an animal as a pet and then slaughtering it seems like lieing to the animal and seems wrong.
    So we should treat our cows and pigs like crap and then slaughter them? What if we raised them, handled, petted, groomed them everyday, but also whispered in their ear that we were going to kill them and eat them. That wouldn't be lying then.


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  11. #11
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    Not to mention...do you think animals even have a concept of lying, LOLcats about "you have betrayed my tiny trust" notwithstanding?


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  12. #12
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    Do you not understand that it is not the eating of them, it is the treatment?Do you really turn such a blind eye to how cattle, pigs, and other animals are treated when they are raised for slaughter. Do you really want a whole commercial enterprise to grow around raising horses for slaughter?
    friend of bar.ka


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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by fourmares View Post
    I disagree with 4-H for the same reason I disagree with eating horses... an animal being raised to be food should be treated as such. Raising an animal as a pet and then slaughtering it seems like lieing to the animal and seems wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Derby Lyn Farms View Post
    So we should treat our cows and pigs like crap and then slaughter them? What if we raised them, handled, petted, groomed them everyday, but also whispered in their ear that we were going to kill them and eat them. That wouldn't be lying then.
    Glad that you answered that one.

    Of course we make pets of many of our animals, even if their lot in life is being sooner or later someone else's next meal.

    I think that is a wonderful trade off we have with our domestic animals, compared with living in the wild and being chased down all your short life, until something catches and eats you alive.

    That we raise so many animals to slaughter them eventually is how this world works, called using the natural, renewable resources ALL of us are for everything else alive.
    It is an honor to get to care for our animals, all of them, when we are the one in charge of that and do the best we can for them.

    I wish more kids were in 4H and learned good animal husbandry, so there would be less abuses out there by clueless, some times well meaning people, wanting to own some animal and not knowing what they are doing.

    As anyone that cares for animals can tell you, humans, by having animals, learn much more than just how to properly care for them, also learning about themselves and so much more and 4H is one part of that learning process.


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
    Do you not understand that it is not the eating of them, it is the treatment?Do you really turn such a blind eye to how cattle, pigs, and other animals are treated when they are raised for slaughter. Do you really want a whole commercial enterprise to grow around raising horses for slaughter?
    Do YOU really know how we raise our animals, even those for slaughter?
    Are you aware that there are horses today raised for slaughter in many countries?
    That most countries that use horses have horse slaughter and is fine that they do, much better than wasting all that some horses can be for us thru slaughter?

    Do we have to go thru that all over again?


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by fourmares View Post
    I disagree with 4-H for the same reason I disagree with eating horses... an animal being raised to be food should be treated as such. Raising an animal as a pet and then slaughtering it seems like lieing to the animal and seems wrong.
    And I would rather the animals I eat – heck ALL domestic animals be treated with care and kindness – a miserable existence before death does not make me happier to eat that animal! Is that what you would prefer? Maybe we should make meat animals life so horrible that they wish for death? Would that be BETTER?

    I guess I should stop eating the grass fed beef / pork / lamb my neighbor raises – his animals live a pretty blessed existence, beautiful pastures overlooking the pacific ocean, gentle handling – his heard are pretty tame, they rush up when his truck arrives and will come up to the fence for a pat on the nose. It would be SO much better if there were up to their bellies in muck in a crappy feed lot .

    http://markegardfamily.com/

    And the other neighbor with pasture raised fryer hens – they are too happy out in their pastures, rushing over when the farmer comes with tasty scraps to eat – it would be much better if they were crammed into little boxes and miserable.

    http://earlybirdranch.com/

    I do not believe animals think, “but wait! You were so nice to me! Humans are kind, how could you eat me?!?”

    How do YOU like your meat to be raised? Or are you vegan?


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  16. #16
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    Hey, cattle up to their belly in mud in a feedlot is poor animal husbandry.
    That is not the way cattle in well run feedlots live, at all.
    If a pen is starting to get heavy, they are moved to another pen and that pen is cleaned and resurfaced.
    Being on grass is no guarantee they are well cared for either.
    It is not where cattle live that makes their lives comfortable, but how they are managed there.
    Cattle are fine in well run feedlots, just as horses are fine in well run barns.


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToTheNines View Post
    Do you not understand that it is not the eating of them, it is the treatment?Do you really turn such a blind eye to how cattle, pigs, and other animals are treated when they are raised for slaughter. Do you really want a whole commercial enterprise to grow around raising horses for slaughter?



    seriously?

    Fact is, farming methods have evolved in the last 2, 3 generations - and before as well, but then we were less urbanized.

    It's plai and simple: poorly treated animals do not produce.
    Happy cows produce more milk, happy steers get nice and fat, same for pigs, etc...

    While we think the laying cages are so horrible, it was a size of confinement arrived at by trial and error: Smaller and they don't lay, bigger and they hurt each other. In the meantime the feed and water stays clean and so do the eggs....

    Stressed animals don't produce.

    As somebody pointed out, you ought to visit a dairy farm some day...the cows have a pretty posh life, with heated rubber water beds, etc....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  18. #18
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    ^^^ I agree Bluey – but being a “Californian” most of my experience with feedlots includes Harris Ranch, and some of the other large feed lots out in Riverside and San Bernardino Counties. These places are a far cry from pasture raised.

    Driving down “The 5” you will start to notice a SMELL. That is when you desperately roll up your windows and turn the air on recycle.

    Then you see the source of the smell – cows in a feed lot for as far as the eye can see

    Its Harris Ranch – their meat is carried in many of the grocery stores here.


    More Harris

    Its pretty difficult to manage THIS many animals in such a small area – and keep things pleasant for the animal. The manure heaps are HUGE, the STENCH is amazing and the mud in the winter is ridiculous. Unfortunately I have never seen a GOOD feedlot – but I am sure that they exist. I prefer my meat to come from the neighbor’s rather than Harris Ranch.


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  19. #19
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    Well, feedlots smell, so do other places cattle congregate.
    Cattle don't mind, they come in from the pastures to lay in the pens to chew their cud and take naps.

    Within 100 square miles, we have over 100 feedlots with from 30 to 60T head at one time in them.
    Those feedlots are built by permits, by engineering firms, according to the latest research, are run by managers that have degrees in feedlot management, have environmental engineers, veterinarians, nutritionist on board and train their employees carefully.
    Those are overseen by a whole alphabet soup of government agencies, from EPA to OSHA and anything in-between, have to follow many laws and regulations of all kinds, etc.

    Plus, they have to make money, or they would not be in business.
    What is their business? To have all those expenses covered with the weight cattle gain.
    How do cattle gain weight? By being contented.
    In reality, that cattle are happy there, each one of them, each lot, is extremely important.

    I don't see how any one feedlot today can be badly managed and make it.
    Today they are losing an average of $100 a head right now each.
    It takes deep pockets to feed cattle thru the highs and lows of the market.
    You can protect your investment some with futures and options bought when you buy the cattle, but you still have to have healthy and fat cattle to sell at the end and that, again takes happy cattle.

    If any one has a bad, messy feedlot and doesn't take care of their cattle, sorry, they just won't last long.

    Now, you may drive by a feedlot right after a big rain or snow and say the pens are wet, how terrible.
    Well, as long as that is all there is, cattle are fine there.
    If you have a feedlot with deep pens, not cleaned properly, no mound or sheds, not maintained properly, your pits getting full, not running clear, you will be getting a call from the inspectors and fined or closed down until fixed.

    Manure can be handled in many ways, most here are composting it and have special machines that walk along the manure hills and keep turning them over, until they are ready to be hauled to fields and spread out as fertilizer.

    My point, there is so much more to feedlots than meets the eye, there really is.
    But, they do smell, when the wind is blowing and you are down wind from one.


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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Well, feedlots smell, so do other places cattle congregate.
    Cattle don't mind, they come in from the pastures to lay in the pens to chew their cud and take naps.

    Within 100 square miles, we have over 100 feedlots with from 30 to 60T head at one time in them.
    .
    I live in an agricultural area. I grew up next to, and kept my horse at a small cattle ranch growing up. I understand cows can smell – but the stench that THOUSANDS of cattle concentrated in one area can produce is fairly mind blowing – and you do not need the wind to bring it to you, and I don’t really think that the cattle enjoy breathing that much methane and ammonia.

    The feed lots near you sound more reasonable – 30 to 60 head.

    Harris Ranch has a capacity of 100,000 head, and processes 250,000 cattle a year. I have seen their facilities (from the road) in all sorts of weather (used to dive by once weekly), and it never appears pleasant there.


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