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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jul. 6, 2005
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    Kentucky
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    223

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    It may have been mentioned and I didn't see--but have you tried sucralfate for ulcer prevention?

    And, have you tried the protocol from the DSLD Yahoo group? http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DSLD-equine/

    I was in the very same spot you are a few years ago with DSLD...and with my gelding banamine was the only thing that offered relief, but I did dose him with sucralfate slurries as he was very ulcer-prone. The sucralfate helped immensely and was--as I recall--pretty cheap. Unfortunately, we didn't have much success with the yahoo group's treatment, but some have reported good results with the AAKG/jiaogulan (one problem is that you can't use NSAIDs while on it).

    I did use things like bigleoil and Abosorbine topically on his fetlocks, not sure it helped, but it was something to do! There are other topical pain relievers to try--like Equi-block & Activex. Wrapping seemed to help. So sorry you are going through this and hope you find something out there that helps!



  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,321

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    Etodolac is a COX-2 inhibitor, so yes, probably safer for the stomach.

    L-arginine and nitroglycerin have been tried for years, in many forms, to treat various types of pain, with very minimal results other than in ischemic pain (like angina). There is topical nitroglycerin, but it can cause FIERCE headaches and lower the BP. Not something I'd do to a horse willingly and I would not touch it without gloves on. Been there, done that, unpleasant to say the least.

    Individual response to NSAIDs is very variable. Many individuals will very definitely get better relief from one than from another. So obviously using one that seems to help THAT individual is smart, as it may allow one to use LESS. Which is the key in minimizing side effects.
    Last edited by deltawave; Mar. 1, 2013 at 12:40 PM. Reason: spelling
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  3. #63
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2006
    Location
    Warren County, NJ
    Posts
    3,599

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    Thx Cai, I have joined the yahoo groups, I'm a little on the fence about the AAKG&J protocol. Considering the dosage of NSAID he requires and how selective his choice of nsaid for a positive response, I'm not so sure the A/J will offer good painrelief. It's said to take 3 months for full effects, I don't want to go back to the way he was attempting to walk around before the Banamine. If I could use A/J protocol alongside the Banamine I would jump on it immediately, but I understand its A/J and nothing else, not even a natural anti-inflammatory alongside. They report good success, but what percentage are we talking about. I don't want to see him shuffle for 3 months and then conclude I have to go back on Banamine .

    Sulcrafate, good point, I'm more in favor of that vs omeprazole. I'll check that out.

    I have Equiblock, but I'm scared to use it, his fetlocks have a surgical clip, so bare skin, years ago I once used Equiblock cream on myself and it left a very unpleasant strong burning sensation. But since I have it, perhaps I could try a tiny dot.
    Familiar with Bigeoil, I will pick some of that up, I do want to rub something on there, even if all it does is soothe my conscious, lol.

    L-arginine and nitroglycerin have been tried for years, in many forms, to treat various types of pain, with very minimal results other than in ischemic pain (like angina). There is topical nitroglycerin, but it can cause FIERCE headaches and lower the BP. Not something I'd do to a horse willingly and I would not touch it without gloves on. Been there, done that, unpleasant to say the least.
    Okay thanks for that, scrap off list in that case, I don't want to experiment on him either, especially since I got something that is at least working a good bit.



  4. #64
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    16,589

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lieslot View Post
    I have Equiblock, but I'm scared to use it, his fetlocks have a surgical clip, so bare skin, years ago I once used Equiblock cream on myself and it left a very unpleasant strong burning sensation. But since I have it, perhaps I could try a tiny dot.
    Familiar with Bigeoil, I will pick some of that up, I do want to rub something on there, even if all it does is soothe my conscious, lol.
    If spot treating would be helpful, try out Surpass. It has worked very well when I've used it, and a small fraction of the NSAID is absorbed systemically, so it's quite safe (although not totally without risk.) You can get Voltaren Gel from Canada for much cheaper than Surpass in the US, too...I've ordered from feelbest.com and been very happy with them. Use code CustomerAppreciation for 15% off right now (I'm not affiliated with them in any way, just a happy customer!)



  5. #65
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2006
    Location
    Warren County, NJ
    Posts
    3,599

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    Thx Simkie I was aware of the Canada Volaren, but didn't know where exactly to get it, thx for sharing I like saving some $'s .
    I wasn't too sure about combining it, but it's likely safer combining it vs upping his Banamine, will look into that.



  6. #66
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    16,589

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    I can't recall if I've ever used Surpass and a systemic NSAID together (probably?), but the number that I've heard floating around is that only 3% of the voltaren applied topically is absorbed systemically. Given that it's such a small amount, I think it would be better than upping a systemic NSAID, but it's certainly worth asking your vet about given your horse's complicated case! I have heard reports of particularly sensitive individuals scurfing if it's used under wraps...just something to note for later, should you try it. I have never had problems wrapping over it, even on clipped skin.

    I do love the stuff, though, both for my horses and myself. It does *wonders* on the arthritis I have in my hands!! And on all sorts of other assorted aches and pains, too.



  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,321

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    Surpass is a great idea.
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  8. #68
    Join Date
    Aug. 9, 2007
    Posts
    9,076

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    Full dose of banamine, 2x a day, for almost a year. Callie was 16 hand easy keeper old ottb mare. No ulcers. But she got a lot of hay plus her soaked grain and neigh lox 10-15 minutes before she got her banamine.

    And Cloudy and bute 2x a day, well full dose for big 16.2 WB, and almost a year of that.

    Now if either Cloudy or Callie had had any reaction to this, the vet would have changed everything. My vet gets a call from me if I think a horse even feels "off." Each horse is an individual. I think that giving meds on a full stomach is a really good idea. And my vet knows my horses and what they can and cannot tolerate. Some horses, like some people, are ulcer prone. Some aren't.

    I'd start with a small dose, and work up to a full dose of drugs if you are worried. I pretty much obsess over all my animals, so i know when they defecate and urinate and what it looks like; how much water they drink, and how they feel. Even though the horses are boarded.

    Good luck. Long term pain control is something that is difficult but possible. Both of mine recovered from their problems.

    you can squirt banamine in a horse's mouth. It will go into the system through the mucus membranes. The reason for giving a drug 2x a day is to allow it it work for 24 hours. So it won't be at a low level in the horse in the middle of the night.



  9. #69
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2006
    Location
    Warren County, NJ
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    Thank you cloudyandcallie, it's good to hear from people that have been there and done that with a good outcome .
    I pretty much obsess over all my animals, so i know when they defecate and urinate and what it looks like; how much water they drink, and how they feel.
    Glad I'm not the only one, I get frowned upon by some folks that know my obsession, but in the end it's the horse that counts, isn't it .



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