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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 24, 2013
    Location
    Nassau, Bahamas
    Posts
    22

    Default Surrey Horses Bahamas

    Hi

    I am currently running a campaign to enforce the Animal Control and Protection Act here in the Bahamas. I would be very grateful if you would sign the petition I have created as part of the campaign.

    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/445/4...n-the-bahamas/

    The horses live and work in under awful circumstances and many are in terrible condition. You can view pictures of the horses and their working environment at www.facebook.com/surreyhorsecause

    Thank you



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb. 24, 2013
    Location
    Nassau, Bahamas
    Posts
    22

    Default Surrey Horses Bahamas

    Hi

    I am currently running a campaign to enforce the Animal Control and Protection Act here in the Bahamas. I would be very grateful if you would sign the petition I have created as part of the campaign.

    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/445/4...n-the-bahamas/

    The horses live and work in under awful circumstances and many are in terrible condition. You can view pictures of the horses and their working environment at www.facebook.com/surreyhorsecause

    Thank you



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 24, 2013
    Location
    Nassau, Bahamas
    Posts
    22

    Default Surrey Horses Bahamas

    Hi

    I am currently running a campaign to enforce the Animal Control and Protection Act here in the Bahamas. I would be very grateful if you would sign the petition I have created as part of the campaign.

    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/445/4...n-the-bahamas/

    The horses live and work in under awful circumstances and many are in terrible condition. You can view pictures of the horses and their working environment at www.facebook.com/surreyhorsecause

    Thank you



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    20,024

    Default

    Boy oh boy, you chose the wrong forum!
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,321

    Default

    What would happen to these horses if the carriage ride trade was discontinued?
    Click here before you buy.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep. 21, 2009
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    1,546

    Default

    What does the Animal Control and Protection Act state as regards the surrey horses? I don't see that info on your petition. Is it to enforce laws already on the books, or is it to ban the horse-drawn vehicles from the streets?
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    20,024

    Default

    Reported to mods...three identical posts in Horse Care, Driving and Off Course.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2008
    Location
    Deschapelles, Haiti
    Posts
    2,452

    Default

    Brand new poster, claiming a working carriage trade is cruel, screen name not their own name. SC, there are people here who've been harassed and lied about by radical animal rights people. You'll get better reception on COTH if you give your own name, your history in the Bahamas, a link to the law, and details on exactly what you want enforced and how the law will be set up not to lead to an outright ban "because carriage work is inherently cruel". IE, that this is a legit enforcement of reasonable standards effort and not a closet 'ban the carriages' effort. Otherwise, people won't believe you easily because they've been burned before.

    I am a horseowner in Haiti, my organization is in my signature. COTHers, I do have many Rotary contacts in the Bahamas. If I asked nicely and kept them out of a brouhaha, I might be able to get one of them to go take pictures on the carriage line as a neutral observing party. But everyone would have to be civil about it.

    UPDATE: I just got to see the facebook page. Few facts, hyperbolic vocabulary, Nassau not fit for tourists let alone horses. That is just not the way to convince anyone that your claim is well proven and well supported, I doubt you'll get much response here.

    And I've been to Nassau twice for conferences and walked the city, it is NOT a smoghole as is claimed on the facebook page. I cannot support your claim, because my own observations do not match what you are claiming.
    Last edited by HorsesinHaiti; Feb. 24, 2013 at 01:54 PM. Reason: add'l info
    HAS provides hospital care to 340,000 people in Haiti's Artibonite Valley 24/7/365/earthquake/cholera/whatever.
    www.hashaiti.org blog:http://hashaiti.org/blog


    6 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2010
    Posts
    27

    Default

    SCMD1954, I would like to ask you what these horses lives would be like without being carriage horses. I also see that you just joined COTH today. So, I take it that you are not a horse person? Do you own horses?

    I know in the USA, that the carriage horses lives would be a lot worse if they were not carriage horses. Because they work, which they love to do, their owners can afford to give them the best possible care.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 19, 2010
    Posts
    417

    Default

    I could only find a link to the 2009 law: http://www.bahamas.gov.bs/wps/wcm/co...df?MOD=AJPERES or http://tinyurl.com/b9xu4qb

    Horses are covered (page 5) and "offences of cruelty to animals" is defined on page 19.

    OP - are the laws not being enforced?
    Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

    "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2007
    Posts
    4,099

    Default

    We merged the duplicate threads on this topic into one here in Off Course.

    Thanks,
    Mod 1



  12. #12
    Join Date
    May. 4, 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    14,849

    Default

    We saw these horses in the Bahamas and they were a lot better off than horses in other parts where tourists are taken for a tour. There is an active
    SPCA there that one an donate too to help the horse owners with medical treatments or shoeing or the 'potcakes' that run around producing puppies like mad.

    In Dominion Republic there is not anywhere that we could find that seemed reputable enough to donate to and the horses had no shade, no water and yellow rope for tack, open sores, etc.

    They are mostly ex-racehorses, we were told, from Florida. A lot are lame, and probably navicular and they have to go back to their owners houses for the night, which might be some distance away, often in their back yards.

    They do have a long shaded tunnel to stand under until their turn comes around and there is water available for every horse after every trip. There were no very thin horses and they were cleaned up for the trade. Not a lovely
    situation. They have to trot on their circuit and one poor horse was resting his painful hooves, in turn, on the back of the carriage in front of him....
    going to these places is upsetting.
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    20,024

    Default

    Foxtrot's I'm confused, is everything after your comment about the Dominican Republic about the Dominican horses or the Bahamas horses?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  14. #14
    Join Date
    May. 4, 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    14,849

    Default

    No - about the Bahamas - I went back and added the DR comment without re-reading for common sense.
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 7, 2005
    Location
    Lancaster, PA
    Posts
    5,028

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Foxtrot's View Post
    They are mostly ex-racehorses, we were told, from Florida. A lot are lame, and probably navicular and they have to go back to their owners houses for the night, which might be some distance away, often in their back yards.
    I'm curious who pays to buy and bring the horses over. The one STB with freezebrand pictured appears to be Chianti Classico - last listed owner in Texas, 2005 as boxer George Foreman!

    From the photos presented, they certainly do not look great. However, I am sure there is a bias (we do not know how representative these photos are overall - there could be 5 or 10 poor looking horses pictured out of hundreds of others in better shape but not pictured.) Also, if these horses were not working and bringing in some money, how much worse (or non-existent) would their care be?



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2002
    Posts
    1,214

    Default

    Are you the owner of that FB page, OP? I have been to Nassau, the carriage horses left absolutely no impression on me although I saw plenty of them. I do however recall the people being mostly incredibly poor.

    I think if you want people on this board to have any interest in your cause, you need to learn about horses (assuming that is your page). All the posts calling the horses "malnourished" with feet that are "rotted away", bits that are gagging them because they are too tight, too many people in the surrey, a horse that is "dribbling (what is that?)...people with horse knowledge don't talk that way. We speak in terms that are grounded in extensive knowledge of how horses should be kept, not in all this hyperbole. You (all "you" posting on that page) aren't doing that, so I have a hard time taking you seriously.

    It would be great if these horses could be fatter and have better farrier care. I'm sure their owners would love more to eat, air conditioning, and security for their families too. Feeding a working horse is very expensive.

    But I would like to hear suggestions from people who know about horse care, not uneducated (although perhaps well-meaning) agenda-pushers.
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns



    3 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2005
    Location
    Some where in the middle of nowhere.
    Posts
    3,690

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by furlong47 View Post
    I'm curious who pays to buy and bring the horses over. The one STB with freezebrand pictured appears to be Chianti Classico - last listed owner in Texas, 2005 as boxer George Foreman!

    From the photos presented, they certainly do not look great. However, I am sure there is a bias (we do not know how representative these photos are overall - there could be 5 or 10 poor looking horses pictured out of hundreds of others in better shape but not pictured.) Also, if these horses were not working and bringing in some money, how much worse (or non-existent) would their care be?
    There is quite a large population of race horses that filter their way down to the islands. A friend lived there for a period of time and did a lot with VICCTRE
    http://www.horsesinthesouth.com/Arti...ts-Florida.asp
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul. 3, 2012
    Location
    Twin Cities
    Posts
    2,318

    Default

    Sign a petition based on something that I have never seen or experienced first hand, based on a a FB page? Not something I am comfortable doing, nor does it seem are many others on this page.

    Unfortunately, most of the population doesn't seem to have this reluctance. Petitions to stop the piping of hydrogen hydroxide, anyone?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb. 24, 2013
    Location
    Nassau, Bahamas
    Posts
    22

    Default

    so you are saying that putting a carriage horse out to pasture would be worse for them? i am having a hard time believing that.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2002
    Posts
    1,214

    Default

    What does out to pasture even mean to you, since you are clearly not someone who has ever paid for or provided a horse's daily care?
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns



    2 members found this post helpful.

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