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  1. #1
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    Default Thinking of going to Vet School? Must read!

    Scary but important article in the NYT this morning:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/bu...arians.html?hp

    I have to say that the featured vet, with 312,000 in student loan debt, exhibits some serious magical thinking. Alas, she is probably not the only one....


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  2. #2
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    Default

    Quite the rip-off,isn't it? They sure trashed Ross.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  3. #3
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Quite the rip-off,isn't it? They sure trashed Ross.
    actually they are no different than a US college/university offering degrees in a basket weaving type major that has no or very little economic value


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  4. #4
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    Default

    Double post
    Last edited by MMacallister; Feb. 24, 2013 at 10:17 AM.
    Railgirl.blogspot.com



  5. #5
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    Default

    I think anyone planning on going to college really needs to look at the economic factors involved. For years in this country the motto was "get a degree and you will make lots of money!" Thats just not the case anymore, the market is flooded with graduates, and the hiring is down.
    I would say it would be tough to be coming out of high school right now. There are options like in state schools, community colleges for the first 2 years, technical schools or the GI Bill, but I don't think this is explained to high schoolers as well as it should be.
    I also don't think basic life budgeting or financial skills are taught very well. The harsh reality of rent, utilities, insurances etc seem to take many people by suprise.
    One of the things that I try to do with my children is to include them in the monthly budget planning so they can see where the money goes, and the places we sacrifice so we can do some of the things that we want.
    Railgirl.blogspot.com


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  6. #6
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    Default

    It is expensive just to apply to vet school.. I spent about $1200 total in applications and didn't even get an interview anywhere (although just barely missed it at my top choice and have a good feeling for next year).


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  7. #7
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    Default

    This is something a group I belong to discusses regularly (it's a group of veterinarians and practice managers trying to work on/debate these types of issues). There is this myth among vet students that educational debt is "good" debt. I would proffer there is no such thing. I graduated with almost $100K in school debt (although only half was vet school, the rest was undergrad). Had I not made a killing in the real estate market selling my house near DC at the height of the bubble (allowing me to pay off the whole thing), I'd be ferked!

    My own alma matter, NCSU, is increasing their class from around 75 students to 100 students this year. When I graduated in 1999, only a small handful of my classmates didn't have jobs by JANUARY--5 months before graduation. This past year fully half of the NCSU class didn't have a job when they got their diploma.

    As an aside, we had a group of Ross students every year finish their clinical rotations at NCSU (they do all the classwork at Ross, then their last year at a US school). Those students ROUTINELY made us look like ass-hats because they were SO knowledgeable. It must be one hell of a program. I will say for sure that they made me bring my "A" game out on more than one occasion (a good thing!).
    From now on, ponyfixer, i'll include foot note references.


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  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by clanter View Post
    actually they are no different than a US college/university offering degrees in a basket weaving type major that has no or very little economic value
    Did you miss the "for profit college" part?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  9. #9
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    Default

    I think they are all "for profit", they just don't actually make one.
    From now on, ponyfixer, i'll include foot note references.


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  10. #10
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    Default

    don't kid yourselves. "Non-profit" is remarkably profitable these days. Take a look at the endowments of many of the top universities in this country and ask yourself why they are charging the tuition they are. Look at their building plans and what they have built in the last 10 years. They are getting rich while America's youth are getting in huge debt.

    ( I am skipping, for now, the issue of why America's youth are spending 225,000 for a degree in puppetry or basket-weaving, etc.)

    PKN



  11. #11
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    Default

    I think educational debt is good debt - but with one important caution: *Do Your Homework!* That's a step that's unfortunately lacking big time when I read some of these articles about college and professions. Take a look at what you think you're going to major in, look at the jobs data. It's all out there - either go to the library and let the librarian help you find it, or use Google fer cryin' out loud. If you are going to major in something, like education, where the average first year salary is $30K, for the love of dog, don't take out $150K of student loan debt - as one of our neighbors did.

    And don't fall for the marketing hooey that there are only 10 good schools in the US. There are lots of articles from credible sources about the schools that deliver the best value.

    My niece wants to be a vet, well and good, but she and I had some emotional discussions about school and how she absolutely could not come out of undergrad with any debt, or very little debt. She did manage to get a full scholarship for undergrad and so it's possible that she *will* be nearly debt free. I still question whether vet school is a good idea for her, but I guess we'll deal with it when she gets there. Lots of water to go under that bridge.

    Besides the for-profit schools, which are bad enough - the professional groups bear some blame too. They keep accrediting schools and increasing class sizes without a whole lot of thought to the downstream impact.

    Think, people, think!


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  12. #12
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    Default

    I always advise anyone who wants to be a vet to work for a vet clinic. It will open their eyes to what it is really like. I advise that for just about any job. What you think and what it is are often far apart. I've known people to go through vet school to only leave the field after they get out into a clinical situation.



  13. #13
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    Default

    hastyreply, you can't even get a second look when applying to vet schools nowadays if you don't have thousands of clinical experience hours under your belt. I have well over 1000 clinical hours in various areas of vet med and was told by one of my schools that while I was a competitive applicant, they'd really like to see me have 2000+ hours.



  14. #14
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    I just want to interject that the "investment" in a bachelor's degree and a professional degree like a DVM are quite different.

    The debt burden for undergrad can be minimized while the person earns the same level of degree (excluding the reputation of the granting institution). And the earning gap between those with colleg e degrees and those without is huge. To me, this looks likes "forced debt" for many people.

    The same is not true for professional degrees. They are not largely mandatory for everyone. The math involved-- what you will borrow against the increase in your earnings-- should be a primary consideration.

    Oh, and the article mentioned that the "2X debt of the starting annual salary" surprised me. IIRC, the very old rule of thumb was "don't borrow more than 1X of what you'll make in your first year out." And folks are walking away with 5X the debt? Holy crapamole!
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


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  15. #15
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    Default

    Didn't our Fat Palomino attend Ross and finish the last year at North Carolina?

    As an oldster, I can't fathom the cost of college these days. Went to college in the sixties at a regional Missouri college, now Truman University, for something
    like $500 or$600 a year for dorm with meals 3x a day 24/7 and about $140 in
    tuition for 3 quarters. We were on a quarter system and most everyone went home for the summer quarter. Loans weren't much heard of,if at all. Everyone
    seemed to have parents paying, working in the summers or scholarships. Few lived off-campus or had cars...mostly the guys.

    Just took a look at Truman's current rates..now $7,000 for tuition and $8,000 for
    dorm with meals.

    Also back then, St. Louis at least, had two very large technical high schools that taught a wide range of trades.
    Julie
    www.centaurfencing.com
    Safer, Stronger, Lasts Longer!
    Godspeed BARBARO--Run fast and free!



  16. #16
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Quite the rip-off,isn't it? They sure trashed Ross.
    Speaking about the non-finncial side, I don't think they trashed Ross. the old reputation of "off-shore" schools was that they were a place for those who could not cut it in the US or Western Europe. But PonyFixer said the Ross students were good-- and she had to bring her A-game to keep up. As an educational institution, that's succeeding.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  17. #17
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    Speaking about the non-finncial side, I don't think they trashed Ross. the old reputation of "off-shore" schools was that they were a place for those who could not cut it in the US or Western Europe. But PonyFixer said the Ross students were good-- and she had to bring her A-game to keep up. As an educational institution, that's succeeding.
    Yep... The standards of admission for island schools like Ross are (or were, at least) more lenient than most of the continental schools (meaning it could be easier to get in), but the retention rate was much lower (meaning that if once you got there you couldn't hack it, they dropped you). They have the same board passage rates as the continental schools and the Ross students that are doing their clinical year with me now are just like Pony Fixer said- top notch and definitely encourage me to bring my A game.
    If it were easy, everybody would do it.

    Equi-Sport Services



  18. #18
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    Default

    At our barn in Gainesville, FL we always have several vet students. One recently joined the Army as a way of paying off her vet school debt. (I believe she is in her 3rd year now) and she will be an Army vet for a certain number of years once she graduates.

    Anyway, it's another possible way to not run up such an horrendous bill.


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  19. #19
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    Default

    As I was recently accepted to vet school for the class of 2017, this scared the daylights out of me. I was blessed to be accepted into my instate as well as out of state schools. My issue is I rather dislike my instate as I've gone here for 5 years, 4 for a bachelors and 1 year for my masters. I want to go to the out of state school so much more as I love their program, atmosphere, town and everything. However after reading this article I'm 95% sure I'll be at my instate unless I win the lottery I'm already is debt from my masters, which wasn't a big deal when its just the debt from that but coupled with a couple hundred thousand from vet school, I think cheaper is the way to go.

    Sadly with the quality of applicants apply to vet school on the rise and the sheer numbers of applicants each year. I found is necessary to obtain a masters to make myself unique and competitive. I feel like this will be on the rise shortly where you'll have to spend even more money to even be looked at as a candidate for professional school.

    What I don't get is the fact that the government is doing on these loan repayment plans. That lose them money yet they have done zip to regulate the cost of education. Also with the elimination of subsidized loans they are shooting themselves in the foot. If you limit the interest gained while in school then people will be able to pay down the principle immediately. Making them able to pay off more of the debt in the long run. However now we are making it so people can only pay interest then just eliminating it in 25+ years? How well though out was that?
    --Luck is what happens when preparedness meets opportunity--



  20. #20
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    Default

    So how many large animal vet schools are there left in the US? I know a lot of people go outside the US and I know of three or four in the US.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!



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