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  1. #81
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    I would have to agree with what AbbieS stated above.

    I am sure that in today's society where women are throwing words out like; feminism, "I can do it myself", yet treat me like a lady, don't open my door, I can so that too. Its difficult for any man to 'size' her up. Sure the above examples are more chivalrous than romantic, but I think its a combination of the two. If opening up my door makes him feel good, believe me, I am going to beam him a smile that will make him think he is the only man on Earth. Then that in turn will open up opportunities for romance to come into the relationship.


    I do feel that online dating has ruined the fine art of dating and romance. The getting to know someone, establishing a solid foundation before committing to each other (not marriage, but just a committed monogamous relationship) and going with the flow.

    Romance is something different for everyone. For example I think flowers have been being used....I don't find receiving flowers as romantic, I find it easy and there is no thought involved. Romance to me, is when someone takes the time to learn about the other person and applies gestures of kindness and thoughtfulness.

    We are also in a society that is incredibly selfish and self absorbed which makes it harder for romance to blossom since you would actually have to care about the other person.



  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    I'd agree that romance is pretty dead for a lot of relationships.

    Because romance is courting, it's what we did as we got to know one another and made efforts to win their affection via actions that weren't sex. Now sex happens so early in the relationship that romance isn't needed. What were you doing it (romance) for? To please someone, to make them happy, to grow closer to them. Now people meet at a bar and take guys/girls home right off the bat. We sleep with people long before we really know them.
    I think this mentality is a little off. The act of sex is a physical need. The act of romance is an emotional need/desire/whathaveyou. You do not NEED romance to have sex (as the random hook ups show) nor do you need sex to have romance.

    Romance takes time and effort, whether there is also sex involved in the relationship or not. A lot of people may not be ready or in a place in life you put that emotional effort in, for whatever reason, but may still want and/or need sex. Thus, hook ups (hopefully done safely!) and "friends with benefits" type relationships. I think, as long as everything is done safely and between two consenting adults and everyone is on the same page, there is nothing inherently wrong with just having sex and leaving the wooing to someone you REALLY want to be with.

    The romancing part comes when the person you want to romance is the person you want to be with outside of the bedroom. The one, as someone mentioned, who'll help bring the horses in in the rain or buy your favorite snack. Romance is for that type of relationship. Sex CAN be just sex....romance is what makes a relationship deeper, committed, loving, and heartfelt. (Keep in mind, I am the biggest freaking cynic and NOT big on dating...this is my take more on a observational stance than anything).

    If there is romance missing from "committed" relationships like Lex mentions (and I am sure there is), it is a matter of ticking the boxes and not taking the time to fully develop your own self and learn WHO you are. The people who tick off the college, career, marriage, baby boxes are often the ones who don't know that there ARE other avenues in life and that there are more than one ways to live life and be happy. The most romantic relationships are often the ones that are between two people who have taken the time to know themselves first. Again, observations of a cynic.


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  3. #83
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    I rather look at behavior as an aspect of evolutionary function.

    If one compares statistical reproductive levels for educated women vs. uneducated women, rates of reproduction rise as education falls.

    I feel compelled to put the idea of romance into some category of biological function. The first purpose that comes to my mind, is courtship.

    That leads me to think of the vast variety of courtship behaviors that exist in the animal kingdom. If I think about mammals and birds, the courtship behaviors can be so extremely different among different species. Yet one thing that seems similar among most species, is that the males preform some type of specific ritual type behavior to attract females.

    In some literature I've read about the songs of certain birds. It seems that baby birds will "imprint" on the songs sung by their parents. Thus in birds, a critical part of courtship behaviors are learnt.

    This can then easily explain the reason why so many different bird songs exist, because if songs are learnt, then any variations in the songs will also be learnt.

    Could we hypothesize that birds of similar species may have diverged into different groups because of the changes in their songs over vast amounts of time? I wonder if song learning itself, may actually be responsible for the creation of different bird species?

    If this hypothesis is true, then it could mean that courtship is equivalent to "Being like my parents".

    Apply the above to people, and the hypothesis would suggest that what people consider as courtship, would be seeking behaviors in potential mates that remind them of their parents, or whatever or whoever was around in the "imprinting" stage of their childhood.

    This then brings me to question exactly what specific behaviors (if there are any), are "commonalities" of courtship behaviors among all the different human cultures?

    Anyone care to speculate on what that might be?



  4. #84
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    Stay at a Holiday Inn last night did we?
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!



  5. #85
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    Nope.



  6. #86
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    People don't *need* to have sex as much as tv & movies make you think you do. If it's the physical need of orgasm, you can do that by yourself.

    Since the majority of relationships are hook-ups or friends with benefits, a lot of people have most (if not all) of their relationship experience in that and so haven't learned how to do romance. Practice makes perfect.

    Plus, I've noticed a lot of younger people are awkward and self-conscious about needing/wanting romance.



  7. #87
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    People don't *need* to have sex as much as tv & movies make you think you do. If it's the physical need of orgasm, you can do that by yourself.
    My body would care to disagree with you. There is more to sex than orgasm. People are all different. My needs and those of my friends who have high sex drives may be different than yours or others. Some people need more or less sleep than I do, too.

    Also, there is nothing wrong with being a sexual person.

    Romance is certainly a learned thing. Which, again, is why I think we see a lot of hook ups. It takes A LOT of effort, and a lot of people, especially young people, don't feel they have the time to put that effort into it. But they still want/need the physical. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.


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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    People don't *need* to have sex as much as tv & movies make you think you do. If it's the physical need of orgasm, you can do that by yourself.

    Since the majority of relationships are hook-ups or friends with benefits, a lot of people have most (if not all) of their relationship experience in that and so haven't learned how to do romance. Practice makes perfect.

    Plus, I've noticed a lot of younger people are awkward and self-conscious about needing/wanting romance.
    Wouldn't it stand to reason, that if the societal purpose of romance was for mate selection and eventual reproduction.Then if romance becomes unnecessary for reproduction, romance must also become unnecessary for society?

    What is the purpose of romance, and if it becomes unnecessary, how does that effect social structure?

    I think Bonobo chimp social structure seems similar to what ours seems to be evolving towards. If I understand Bonobo chimp social structure correctly, their's is a matriarchal society.

    Could human society may be on the evolutionary path towards becoming matriarchal?



  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    People don't *need* to have sex as much as tv & movies make you think you do. If it's the physical need of orgasm, you can do that by yourself.

    I will disagree with you on that. I can kayak all I want, but it never replaces the act of sex with someone. And it is much more than just achieving an orgasm. May be its because I am in my late 30's (oh dear, did I just write that), but I would prefer to have a canoeing partner than be an alone kayak-er any day.

    but we are getting off track with the OP.



  10. #90
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    Bonobos also have sex with all of the members of the group without the need to reproduce. They engage to say I am sorry for picking a fight with you, they engage to say thank you for the fruit that you just gave me, they engage to say I like the way you groom me and pick off my bugs. They engage to reduce stress with other members of the group. They do not have to be in heat to engage in sex, therefore I believe they are doing for the social and pleasurable act of "getting it on".



    Quote Originally Posted by alterhorse View Post
    Wouldn't it stand to reason, that if the societal purpose of romance was for mate selection and eventual reproduction.Then if romance becomes unnecessary for reproduction, romance must also become unnecessary for society?

    What is the purpose of romance, and if it becomes unnecessary, how does that effect social structure?

    I think Bonobo chimp social structure seems similar to what ours seems to be evolving towards. If I understand Bonobo chimp social structure correctly, their's is a matriarchal society.

    Could human society may be on the evolutionary path towards becoming matriarchal?



  11. #91
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    In my opinion, romance is felt moreso when it goes both ways. For example, my boyfriend does cute things for me--like leaving me sweet notes if he leaves the house before I get up. In turn, I get him a cookie at his favorite coffeeshop as a cute treat.

    We were friends for three solid months before we started dating. We really got to know each other well before the physical ever entered our friendship. And then once we got together we got to know each other on a totally new level. Same when we moved across country in a van together to a completely new city.

    Lex, I think that romance will always be appreciated by any woman you show it to or at least I think it should be. However I know a lot of couples who have a relationship that is very stale because either has become too conditional. Romance, in my opinion, should not be withheld due to financial status, distance, or laziness. Put the effort into to your relationship and you will find that issues are more easily resolved when things get tough. At least that has been my experience.

    When I was dating guys rarely made me feel cared about or appreciated, however I found a good one who treats me right! And I do the same for him.



  12. #92
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    OP, romance takes time and thought, and most people aren't going to put forth too much effort unless they really like the other person. On top of that, different people find different things to be "romantic." Maybe you've found others to be unreceptive because your idea of romance sounds corny/boring/gross/illegal as hell to them.

    However, if you are chronically single, then it's probably you and not "them."

    I'll paraphrase some hilarious song lyrics that say it pretty well:

    Well, I know a guy and he's alway complaining
    'Cause he doesn't have a girlfriend.
    So I decided to explain to him
    Why I think he has this problem.

    The reason you're alone has nothing to do with anything specific.
    In fact, I think it's more scientific.
    You see, the characteristics that you portray
    Make women want to run away.

    And though I can offer you no solution,
    I think it's got something to do with evolution.

    That's evolution when you're all by yourself.
    And that's evolution when you're too much of a loser to find someone else.
    And that's evolution when you can't get a date.
    And that's evolution and it exists so you won't mate.



  13. #93
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    I used to think that romance didn't exist in my relationship. I'm not one for liking the traditional stuff anyway (flowers, candy, etc.). But the more I think about it, the more I realize that the romance is there, just in a different way.

    Just some background to start off with. My SO and I have known each other since I was 10 and he was 11. We didn't start dating until my freshman year of college, then took a break until my senior year. We've been together for over 10 years now, with the first 4 and a half spent long distance and the last almost 2 years living together.

    I've noticed more small gestures since we've been living together. He always lets me park my car in the closest carport to the house. He cooks dinner on the nights I ride. He goes for useful gifts rather than cute/pretty ones (i.e. my food processor that he gave me for Christmas). And most recently, he got me roses for Valentine's Day 2 days early so I could enjoy them before we went away for the weekend. It was the thought behind getting the flowers early that really made me realize that he still thinks of me after all this time together.



  14. #94
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    That's good stuff right there.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!



  15. #95
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    Funny. This post jumped into romance thread......
    Last edited by Nikki^; Apr. 18, 2013 at 02:01 PM. Reason: Glitch?
    "Common sense is so rare nowadays, it should be classified as a super power."-Craig Bear Laubscher



  16. #96
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    Okay, the forum is officially REALLY screwed up today.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!



  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
    Okay, the forum is officially REALLY screwed up today.
    Yeah.... I'm hoping the reason you posted that disappears from this thread.

    Let's just say... it ain't romantic.
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowbritches View Post
    My body would care to disagree with you. There is more to sex than orgasm. People are all different. My needs and those of my friends who have high sex drives may be different than yours or others.

    Also, there is nothing wrong with being a sexual person.
    amen.
    I have an obsession with the body. For some reason it's always been an innate feature of the Purp psyche. There is no romance in that.
    I've always been obsessed with athletes and muscles.

    My past supports this. Being an athlete myself from the time I could walk--all the way to my education. I can't seem to escape.

    I feel compelled to put the idea of romance into some category of biological function. The first purpose that comes to my mind, is courtship.

    That leads me to think of the vast variety of courtship behaviors that exist in the animal kingdom. If I think about mammals and birds, the courtship behaviors can be so extremely different among different species. Yet one thing that seems similar among most species, is that the males preform some type of specific ritual type behavior to attract females.

    In some literature I've read about the songs of certain birds. It seems that baby birds will "imprint" on the songs sung by their parents. Thus in birds, a critical part of courtship behaviors are learnt.
    Scientifically speaking. This is oh so true. That awesome heart pounding, crippling feeling you get when a hottie is around is just nature...tricking your body into sexual submission.
    That emotional feeling is there to provoke humans into reproduction.

    So, when people say "I love you but I'm not IN love with you?"--that is absolutely right.
    The IN LOVE part is hard to keep fresh and it dies quickly. Because that feeling is there initially to make us reproduce.

    I think in modern society, if relationships last it's because ....
    I have no idea why.

    But I think relationships that also double as business relationships seem to last...
    and then those who really go out of their way to keep the romance feeling fresh will survive as well. Because fresh romance keeps those feeling of "in love" in the present rather than just in the past.
    http://kaboomeventing.com/
    http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
    Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!



  19. #99
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    Relationships these days are so technilogical it seems. I need more than just a text here and there, I require actual conversation. Too bad no guys seem to understand that concept. I don't even know if I've experienced romance at 26 years of age but it sure sounds like a nice concept.



  20. #100
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    I'll tell you the single most romantic thing I've seen. My parents have a very functional relationship where they play off each others' strengths, but they never seem very mushy. They've been married a little over 35 years now, and actually got married within a year of meeting each other. But anyway, most romantic thing I've seen:

    A few years ago my grandfather had heart surgery, and my mother spent a little over a month living at his house, 5 hrs away from home. Now every morning she does the newspaper cryptogram, but the paper at my grandfather's didn't have them. When she came home, she found my dad had cut out every. single. day's. puzzle and saved them, in order so she wouldn't see the answer, organized by week. To me, that's much more romantic than roses.

    I guess for me romance is about thoughtfulness and doing something purely because it'll make the other person happy.

    (And FTR the most romantic guy I've ever dated was someone I met on OkCupid.)
    "Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out." ~John Wooden

    Phoenix Animal Rescue


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