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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    No horse wants to fall down. I picture that horse around all these people and never having a person of his own to stand up for him.

    So different from the way I own my horse and so sad for any animal.
    Amen.
    "I'm not always sarcastic. Sometimes I'm asleep."
    - Harry Dresden

    Horse Isle 2: Legend of the Esrohs LifeCycle Breeding and competition MMORPG


    5 members found this post helpful.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piggiejump View Post

    1-Bases Loaded was a catch ride. Lillie meet the horse at the ring and got on. Any prep he received had nothing to do with Lillie. And I cannot say I agree that is why he tripped. I think he was tired after showing in 3 or 4 divisions that week and just stumbled in that footing, which has absolutely no give when they do stumble.
    So tired that he stumbled more than once, and was clearly telling his rider (catch ride, or not doesn't really matter) "I AM TIRED AND CANNOT DO THIS TODAY!" The footing really isn't forgiving, you are right. But someone, anyone should've listened to that horse rather than pushing him like that. Even a runner knows when they're that tired it's better to rest than risk injury.

    My own opinion.
    "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique


    20 members found this post helpful.

  3. #43
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    Goodness, Bases Loaded's way of going in that video looks to be the hunter version of western pleasure.
    Last edited by alicen; Feb. 23, 2013 at 06:52 PM.


    15 members found this post helpful.

  4. #44
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    Nov. 30, 2006
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    How on earth might that happen if we don't look for what others MAY be doing???

    Maybe we should all just turn a blind eye. No, I won't look...

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie locks View Post
    Lets not paint everyone with the same broad brush now!! And looking for what others MAY be doing isn't helping the sport.

    Those that are the idiots should just pay the price and be an example to anyone else that even thinks about mistreating their mounts!!!!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
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    Nov. 14, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piggiejump View Post
    Wow. What amazes me me if the amount of speculation and jumping to conclusions going on....

    1-Bases Loaded was a catch ride. Lillie meet the horse at the ring and got on. Any prep he received had nothing to do with Lillie. And I cannot say I agree that is why he tripped. I think he was tired after showing in 3 or 4 divisions that week and just stumbled in that footing, which has absolutely no give when they do stumble.

    2- Parkland was standing at the ring being held by a groom waiting to show when he collapsed. No one was riding him. Lillie was waiting nearby and saw the event, and horse was sent back to barn to be checked by vet. Nothing seemed wrong with him, vet cleared him to show, he returned to ring and won classes.

    He is not a catch ride but a lease, and is under the care of Lillie's trainers, who have not had ANY USEF drug related infractions, despite consistently having more horses at the shows than any other barn.

    Those are the facts. Please do not be quick to incriminate a young girl because she has been involved with two freak incidences.
    Wow, my heart just bleeds for the kid. You can't tell me that someone that rides as many horses for as many people at as many shows doesn't know what goes on. If one of her mounts is under the "influence", she knows.

    iEquitate said it, a normal horse in good health does not collapse ringside.

    "Pat the horse; kick yourself" - Carl Hester


    17 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
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    Dec. 21, 2008
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    Jacksonville, FL
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    No offense but there is no way I would get on a horse that had collapsed and go out and jump 3'6" fences with the plan to do more this evening. My sense of self preservation is way too high for that. Besides the fact I would have serious reservations about why he collapsed, especially if he had no drugs on board.


    52 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
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    Quote from an early post quoting HSD:
    "trained by a heritage groom". Does this mean what it seems to mean? Is Parklane a Heritage Farms horse?

    To the above poster:
    Young though she is, she's been around A LOT. Maybe she thought that if the horse was drugged, the vet would just inject an antidote and all would be well. Or maybe she trusted the barn not to put her on an unsafe horse.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #48
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    I think it means that the groom is signing as trainer for the farms entries.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  9. #49
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    I agree, no one should fault a child or any rider under the guidance of professionals managing the care of a horse.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
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    I dont know any of the parties involved, and maybe its true that drugging was involved (ok, maybe more than likely!)...however I have been ringside holding a horse who suddenly went down. First the knees dropped, then stumbled and fell over. Horse checked out completely fine and vet felt strongly that it was some sort of narcoleptic event. He was a modified horse, and proceeded to show the rest of the weekend with no further concerns and never had another episode. No drugs involved on this one for sure!

    I also have had a horse fall in the ring, land akward and roll right over. He also wasnt drugged (actually, if you were to drug him he would need adrenalin!) but just landed wrong.

    I hope for the horses sake he is ok, and that if drugs were involved there was a lesson learned. Its sad that the sport has come to this, that something strange happens and we all assume its because the horses were drugged. Unfortunatley many times its true.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  11. #51
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    May. 22, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by gumshoe View Post
    How on earth might that happen if we don't look for what others MAY be doing???

    Maybe we should all just turn a blind eye. No, I won't look...
    Yeah - that's what I said to turn a blind eye!! Oh brother where did you learn to read a cracker jack box? Those that are abusing their animals should pay the price. I guess to you that's turning a blind eye.

    Your comment about "I wonder what others MAY be doing" is speculating and painting everyone with the same brush. I don't disagree that people should be accountable and CHECKED but lets not make it up.
    If you really want to do something, you’ll find a way. If you don’t, you’ll find an excuse.



  12. #52
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    Diverting attention by squabbling over details takes the emphasis of the discussion away from the main point: a horse collapsed and was shown the same day. And that is not ok in any arena, hunter bubble land or no.

    I don't care where the horse collapsed or whether or not someone was leading him or riding him or what, you do not go out and show the horse the same day. Period. I don't care whether it is hunter week at HITS or what. I don't care who trains and rides the horse (actually I do, I will steer very clear of people who end up with "accidents" *insertdrippingsarcasmhere* and "misunderstandings" like that).

    Horses do not fall over willy-nilly. There is a reason, and that should be discovered and treated before the horse returns to competition, for the safety of the person on their back and for their own safety as well. I'm willing to guess that that is a very valuable horse, and for it to snap its leg because of [un underlying issue] in the show ring just so it can win some weekday class is ridiculous from a business perspective. I show jumpers, so no, I'm not entirely up with what goes on in hunter land, but I know we'd never do that. You just wouldn't do that with a $$$$$$$$$$$$ horse (at least, we wouldn't. We also don't drug or do anything illicit, either).

    Additionally, a talented young rider like Lillie should not put her entire career and life at risk by riding a horse who could end it all for her should it fall on her and paralyze her or worse. The video of her mount last year is a precursor to what could happen.

    Where are her parents, and does her trainer just not care for her at all? Although her trainer should be watching out for her safety at this point (until she learns to do it on her own) her parents most certainly should be stepping in and saying, "Look, kiddo, we know you want to make it to the top, but you can't get there if you're in a wheelchair or a box six feet under."
    Give the horse the day off, continue collecting points for year-end circuit championchips etc. tomorrow. Or even the next week, heck, WEF is far from over! And neither is Lillie's career or the horse's either. They don't need to show every single class. OK, she catch rides. Part of catch riding is knowing when to get off and walk away. In the end, I think (I hope) no one would blame her if she decided to NOT put herself in a dangerous situation!

    And doesn't anyone think it suspicious that the horse was (purportedly) trained by a Heritage Farm groom? That's the oldest trick in the book, people: that way when the horse is tested positive for drugs, the actual trainer can't be suspended. C'mon, guys, I know most of you have been around the block quite a few more times than me: you should have picked up on that.
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Feb. 27, 2013 at 02:09 PM.


    54 members found this post helpful.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluebuckets View Post
    Diverting attention by squabbling over details takes the emphasis of the discussion away from the main point: a horse collapsed and was shown the same day. And that is not ok in any arena, hunter bubble land or no.

    I don't care where the horse collapsed or whether or not someone was leading him or riding him or what, you do not go out and show the horse the same day. Period. I don't care whether it is hunter week at HITS or what. I don't care who trains and rides the horse (actually I do, I will steer very clear of people who end up with "accidents" *insertdrippingsarcasmhere* and "misunderstandings" like that).

    Horses do not fall over willy-nilly. There is a reason, and that should be discovered and treated before the horse returns to competition, for the safety of the person on their back and for their own safety as well. I'm willing to guess that that is a very valuable horse, and for it to snap its leg because of [an underlying issue] in the show ring just so it can win some weekday class is ridiculous from a business perspective. I show jumpers, so no, I'm not entirely up with what goes on in hunter land, but I know we'd never do that. You just wouldn't do that with a $$$$$$$$$$$$ horse (at least, we wouldn't. We also don't drug or do anything illicit, either).

    Additionally, a talented young rider like Lillie should not put her entire career and life at risk by riding a horse who could end it all for her should it fall on her and paralyze her or worse. The video of her mount last year is a precursor to what could happen.

    Where are her parents, and does her trainer just not care for her at all? Although her trainer should be watching out for her safety at this point (until she learns to do it on her own) her parents most certainly should be stepping in and saying, "Look, kiddo, we know you want to make it to the top, but you can't get there if you're in a wheelchair or a box six feet under."
    Give the horse the day off, continue collecting points for year-end circuit championchips etc. tomorrow. Or even the next week, heck, WEF is far from over! And neither is Lillie's career or the horse's either. They don't need to show every single class. OK, she catch rides. Part of catch riding is knowing when to get off and walk away. In the end, I think (I hope) no one would blame her if she decided to NOT put herself in a dangerous situation!

    And doesn't anyone think it suspicious that the horse was (purportedly) trained by a Heritage Farm groom? That's the oldest trick in the book, people: that way when the horse is tested positive for drugs, the actual trainer can't be suspended. C'mon, guys, I know most of you have been around the block quite a few more times than me: you should have picked up on that.
    well said
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Feb. 27, 2013 at 02:09 PM.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  14. #54
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    Jun. 26, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluebuckets View Post





    And doesn't anyone think it suspicious that the horse was (purportedly) trained by a Heritage Farm groom? That's the oldest trick in the book, people: that way when the horse is tested positive for drugs, the actual trainer can't be suspended. C'mon, guys, I know most of you have been around the block quite a few more times than me: you should have picked up on that.
    I believe a groom signed as trainer for a couple of Heritage horses at WIHS, as well.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #55
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    Oct. 13, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piggiejump View Post
    Wow. What amazes me me if the amount of speculation and jumping to conclusions going on....


    2- Parkland was standing at the ring being held by a groom waiting to show when he collapsed. No one was riding him. Lillie was waiting nearby and saw the event, and horse was sent back to barn to be checked by vet. Nothing seemed wrong with him, vet cleared him to show, he returned to ring and won classes.

    He is not a catch ride but a lease, and is under the care of Lillie's trainers, who have not had ANY USEF drug related infractions, despite consistently having more horses at the shows than any other barn.
    I'm sorry, but if my horse suddenly collapsed while simply standing by the ring,
    the last thing I would do is show him later on. I'd give him at least 24 hours off. And if I did show him later that same day, my vet would fire me as a client.

    As for "trainers, who have not had ANY USEF drug related infractions, despite consistently having more horses at the shows than any other barn"... sadly that is no longer proof that horses haven't been drugged.
    -Amor vincit omnia-


    22 members found this post helpful.

  16. #56
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    Jun. 9, 2003
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    A horse that collapses like that should be on stall rest and observed for the next 24-48 hours until a reason can be ascertained. They couldn't possibly run any diagnostics to say what happened that quickly. Where were the stewards? Shouldn't they step forward and say this horse is not fit to compete? Why wouldn't the vet say the horse should be on stall rest, tested and observed? Anyone in their mid-teens showing at that level is savvy enough to know the horse wasn't fit to ride. Chasing points, ribbons or acclaim is no escuse. This is the most disgusting crap I can think of -- why is it tolerated? The weak attempts to make changes are pathetic! I point fingers at everyone from the USET, horse show, owners, trainers, grooms and riders and vets -- the horse can't talk -- SPEAK UP!
    I have no patience with anyone like this!
    PennyG


    22 members found this post helpful.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by EML1960 View Post
    I see your point, the whole situation is just sad
    Very, very sad.



  18. #58
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    BlueBuckets, your post had me screaming and pumping like I was already at the hockey game tonight! WELL SAID!!!
    "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #59
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    Jul. 21, 2011
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    The trainer of Parkland is listed as Gerardo Escalara (Heritage Farm) ,Rider Lillie Keenan ,Owner Jennifer Gates.
    Last edited by skydy; Feb. 23, 2013 at 07:53 PM.



  20. #60
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    Coming from a non-show person, this is insane. Were this to happen as a horse were preparing to race (either warming up on the track pre-race or in the paddock or on the walk over), horse would be scratched, sent back to the barn, and likely put on either the vet's or steward's list, meaning it would need clearance before being allowed to enter another race.

    WTF, hunter-jumpers? Seriously...WTF?
    It's a uterus, not a clown car. - Sayyedati


    27 members found this post helpful.

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