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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar. 28, 2002
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    East of Dog River
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    5,693

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    Quote Originally Posted by rustbreeches View Post
    Since mineral rights are separate from water rights and actual property ownership in certain western states, it isn't even up to the property owner in some cases.
    This applies here as well. You cannot even stop a seismic crew from shooting your land here, and decades ago they shot here and found deep oil, far deeper than they could drill in the 50s. That oil is now accessible, it is known as the Bakken Shale Field, and covers thousands of square miles and they have to fracture to recover that oil - shooting the well just doesn't work, they have to fracture. If they are going to fracture wells here, we haven't any way of stopping it.

    FWIW, they have been fracturing wells, both gas and oil, since the 40s. maybe even earlier. With all the rat hole services here, they are doing it somewhere close by (in our Western terms of distance).

    There are even protesters for CO2 sequestration and use of CO2 for some fracturing. There are stories on line about a kind of local guy that is trying to blame CO2 for his water problems but nothing conclusive beyond plain old alkali water has been shown to be there; tests were done by several labs, including the Provincial lab and a couple of independants. I do know the man, but haven't seen the suspect water up close and personal, just pictures that accompanied the news stories.
    Founder of the Dyslexic Clique. Dyslexics of the world - UNTIE!!

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  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2009
    Location
    Area 51
    Posts
    1,632

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    No way!
    I LOVE my Chickens!



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec. 29, 2012
    Location
    La La Land
    Posts
    478

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    NO NO an NO. It is proven beyond reasonable doubt that fracking is messing up the water. Non believers can just go take a match to those peoples water taps and find out. I do not believe the peoples best interests are being looked to by our representatives. Simple fact we can not live without water period end of sentence. It is our most valuable resource. We really shouldn't mess around with it. When our water dies we die.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct. 21, 1999
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    12,277

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk_pacer View Post
    FWIW, they have been fracturing wells, both gas and oil, since the 40s. maybe even earlier. With all the rat hole services here, they are doing it somewhere close by (in our Western terms of distance).
    They have been fracking vertically, not horizontally. There is a big difference both in the area covered, and in the amount of whatever noxious chemical solutions they use gets pumped down there.

    Which brings up, of course, another question. What are they going to do with all of the millions of gallons of that stuff (who knows what it is because they won't tell anyone), after it's been used?
    Originally Posted by Alagirl
    We just love to shame poor people...when in reality, we are all just peasants.



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr. 3, 2006
    Location
    Spooner, WI
    Posts
    2,237

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    Under my dead body only. We're battling mines here in WI. They've watered down our environmental law to affect that these guys have no accountability for what they do to/with/about the water. They can draw down as much as they want and they can throw the toxins back in as much as they want. It's being touted as a ferrous mine when it is INDEED both ferrous and sulfide. Sulfide is poison. They are building a ferrous mine with no controls for the sulfide. This is on an aquifer adjacent to Lake Superior our purest lake. I'm about driven mad.

    Not to mention if this Bill passes it will open a bunch of mining areas throughout the entire state. This is NOT the state I grew up in. Our governor is in the pocket of the Koch bros. for realz.

    This is scary stuff.



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct. 21, 1999
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    12,277

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    Your governor is downright scary, sunridge1. He is turning your beautiful state into a hell-hole.
    Originally Posted by Alagirl
    We just love to shame poor people...when in reality, we are all just peasants.



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov. 20, 2010
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    4,272

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    Oh, no - one of the states I always thought sounded great to visit/stay, and had 'normal' people...
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec. 10, 2001
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,831

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk View Post
    NO NO an NO. It is proven beyond reasonable doubt that fracking is messing up the water. Non believers can just go take a match to those peoples water taps and find out. I do not believe the peoples best interests are being looked to by our representatives. Simple fact we can not live without water period end of sentence. It is our most valuable resource. We really shouldn't mess around with it. When our water dies we die.
    I've got no dog in this fight, but I have to comment on the above.

    I know pretty well a farm family from that area. They are good, honest people who have lived there for generations. They told me that you have been able to set the local stream on fire many years ago, when they were kids. There are pockets of methane various places that pool. The family that made the dramatic video of them lighting their water from the tap on fire has been able to do that for decades. It is a very poor family, that sees this as their opportunity to cash in.

    Not my opinion, just what I have heard. I am also in a fracking area, and have not heard of a single well being contaminated, but I admit I'm not privy to all that goes on locally, too busy making a living.

    Our well is contaminated, but not by fracking. It was by liquid manure spread by a local dairy. They are allowed to spread 18,000 gallons per acre. If that can seep into my well from acres away, what can chemicals do?
    OLD FRIENDS FARM-Equine Retirement-We LOVE Seniors!! Spoiling Retirees since 1998
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    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2010
    Location
    california
    Posts
    4,139

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    I don't work in other states except California, but the application I submitted to the state had to provide a detailed assessment of why this deep well would not impact any other well or aquifer. I don't know what the application process is for other areas but I would want to have any fracking operation prove to not only the public agency but to an independent expert that 1. The geology is well documented 2. No existing wells or water sources will be impacted.

    Again, the point of my earlier post is that it is not always known what the geology is at depth and that element of the application is the toughest to comply with. I have had to explain this to several geologists in our corporation as it restricts the areas for deep well and/or fracking. Information is what should be coming from both the applicant and the agencies reviewing the applications.

    There have also been earthquakes created by some deep water extraction operations, most notable in Spain. Fracking in the midwest has also caused small earthquakes. It just seems that our collective knowledge does not keep up with our technologies at times, and fracking at the depths that technology allows for now is not completely understood, even by the geologists.
    Last edited by stolen virtue; Feb. 24, 2013 at 04:14 PM.



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