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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep. 24, 2004
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    Piedmont Triad, North Carolina
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    Default Fracking ... a spin off.

    This was posted regarding fracking gas wells.

    Brilliant, yes a baseline is smart to have... but it doesn't change the fact that if drilling or fracking ruins water wells, regardless of a baseline that will show it's ruined and how ruined,... it's still ruined.

    That was my point.
    Regardless of a baseline, once you've destroyed your well water... based on comparing post to the baseline, it's still ruined.

    And yes, or course someone has to do it to figure out if it in fact is problematic, but like the testing of many drugs out there, the challenge is finding people dumb enough to want to take that chance that it in fact is dangerous and offer themselves up as guinea pigs.
    There are two points in reply:

    1: there are no cases of water well contamination by fracking fluid.

    2: There are many people that have taken the chance and allowed fracking to be done on their land.


    Would you allow a fracked gas well to be drilled on your farm? (assuming you have enough space for that you can still live there) figure on a 3 acre well site for discussion. Could be more or less in practice.



  2. #2
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Lexington, KY
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    20,024

    Default

    No.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 26, 2011
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    Its not nowhere, but you can see it from here
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    Default

    Since mineral rights are separate from water rights and actual property ownership in certain western states, it isn't even up to the property owner in some cases.
    From AliCat518 "Seriously, why would you NOT put fried chicken in your purse?!"


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
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    Feb. 22, 2009
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    Wisconsin
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    Default

    Am I the only one who went somewhere else with the Fracking? Could just be because hubby and I watched Battlestar


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Spotsylvania, VA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rustbreeches View Post
    Since mineral rights are separate from water rights and actual property ownership in certain western states, it isn't even up to the property owner in some cases.
    And if your neighbor allows it you might also be affected
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  6. #6
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    Feb. 26, 2011
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    And if your neighbor allows it you might also be affected
    In our county the vast majority of rural folk actually have city water, with a septic field. Many water wells were dried off because of supposed issues with sending water in to Nebraska. Unfortunately the water table is so high in our area now that basements are being flooded, as well as corrals, usable pasture, etc. Frac'ing still scares the hell out of me because at what point is beating the shit out of Earth going to come back and bite us in the butt? I get that it has helped the economy in many states, but I personally don't think it is without unforetold side effects
    From AliCat518 "Seriously, why would you NOT put fried chicken in your purse?!"



  7. #7
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    Jun. 7, 2002
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    3,966

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    Would you allow a fracked gas well to be drilled on your farm?
    I don't own a farm but I think there needs to be more research and a better appreciation of long-term side-effects on the environment, before we go all out with fracking.
    So, if I did own enough land...I would say no.
    So,
    Ottbs - The finish line is only the beginning!



  8. #8
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    Nov. 18, 2010
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    california
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    Default

    I have submitted a "deep well injection" permit application in California. The well that I was responsible for was 5,000 feet below ground surface (bgs) and in California a detailed assessment of surrounding wells within 5 miles needs to be prepared. The application MUST provide a detailed description of the geology of the total depth. The only way to get that information is through old oil well data. You are not allowed to drill a test well to determine geological conditions.

    I suspect that in other states you can guess or estimate the geology at that depth, so there can be problems if the actual geology is not documented BEFORE you drill the well. I would want to see the plans and if there was no documented geology, I would be concerned.

    And yes, if your neighbor has a fracking operation you are at risk for issues regardless of it not being on your property. Potential problems could be over 5 miles or more from the fracking well.



  9. #9
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    Sep. 24, 2004
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    Default

    Stolen Virtue ... What purpose was the injection? Waste disposal?



  10. #10
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    Nov. 18, 2010
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    california
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    Default

    Waste disposal for the cooling tower water for a power plant.



  11. #11
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    Jun. 4, 2002
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    Suffolk, VA
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    Default

    No, definitely not. My Stepfather knows people in Pennsylvania who can light their tap water on fire...methane gas released by fracking. Now there are cases popping up of animals becoming sick also. No thanks. If I had enough land to make a difference, I'd definitely say no as things are now.



  12. #12
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    Apr. 4, 2006
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    VA (or MS during the school year)
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    No, definitely not. My Stepfather knows people in Pennsylvania who can light their tap water on fire...methane gas released by fracking. Now there are cases popping up of animals becoming sick also. No thanks. If I had enough land to make a difference, I'd definitely say no as things are now.
    I've personally seen this happen. It's insane. I am absolutely against fracking.

    If anyone is interested, this is a friend's blog on hydro-fracking. She is very active in the fight against this. http://laurensjournalonfracking.tumblr.com/
    "People ask me 'will I remember them if I make it'. I ask them 'will you remember me if I don't?'"



  13. #13
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    Jun. 20, 2000
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    Full time in Delhi, NY!
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    We're looking at purchasing land upstate NY and the property we first looked at was less than a mile from a closed well. If they reopened it, it would be as a fracking well and we would've been listening to construction, water trucks 24/7, and we would be watering our livestock from a spring fed pond directly down hill from the well. We passed on that one.
    ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
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  14. #14
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    Nov. 5, 2002
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    way out west
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    Default

    Yeah, I totally went to "Battlestar Galactica" on this one!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
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    Nov. 20, 2010
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    Upstate New York
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    This is a huge local issue right now.

    My closest neighbor with a contract is just 2 miles away house wise, but his land abuts mine, and I have 3/4 mile frontage. Fracking is done at the location of the individual with the contract, and then goes horizontally anywhere. Neighbors have no right to refuse horizontal intrusion under their own properties. Right now I have absolutely unbelievable lovely spring water.

    And frightening considering the governor's lack of taking a stand, or rather trying to find a way to squeeze it in as acceptable. Then again, the old NYC vs Upstate battles continue.

    True, upstate NY really needs work, jobs, income.

    But, hello - the companies STILL aren't divulging the ingredients in fracking fluids. "Because it's proprietary" don't you know. No, because they don't dare.

    I really think no one should be making decisions about fracking, until they've lived in an area of gas production. And then decide if that's what they want back home. It's very nice to think about, and perceive the dollars rolling in, while living in an ivory governmental tower, or nice green fields and believing all the tales the frackers want you to hear.

    But my ex was an environmental engineer for the State - for the DEC whom the governor is waiting for to finalize studies. Suffice it to say, the agency can have lots of areas where things aren't done quite right. Then we went to the Middle East, where he was an environmental engineer for the largest gas/oil company in the world. Believe me, if that doesn't teach you about where real world influence is, nothing does.

    Even locally, BIL, a man who usually is spot on about business - said not to worry as very influential local philanthropists are/will be up in arms about local development of fracking. As much as I would love to agree with him, I've seen first hand the influence of oil/gas production. It will make no difference if they truly decide to go there.

    The only saving grace for my immediate location, is that it seems to be at the edge of the Marcellus shale, and that fracking will probably go on to a larger degree further to the south.
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  16. #16
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    Jan. 26, 2006
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    Fort Worth, Texas
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CVPeg View Post
    This is a huge local issue right now.

    My closest neighbor with a contract is just 2 miles away house wise, but his land abuts mine, and I have 3/4 mile frontage. Fracking is done at the location of the individual with the contract, and then goes horizontally anywhere. Neighbors have no right to refuse horizontal intrusion under their own properties. Right now I have absolutely unbelievable lovely spring water.

    .
    Unless you are in valley and the drilling has taken place at much higher elevation, drilling or facting cannot affect a spring as a spring's water is a resurfacing of water that has entered the aquifer from a higher elevation.

    Fracting is injection to much lower depths



  17. #17
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    Oct. 21, 1999
    Location
    Rochester, NY
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    Default

    CVPeg, you aren't out of the woods and neither am I. The talk these days is all about the Marcellus shale, and that is in the lower part of NY State, in the Southern Tier. However, we sit on the Utica shale, and that also has potential for gas drilling. I think that they're not pursuing it right now because of all of the larger cities that sit on the Utica shale -- Albany, Schenectady, Syracuse, Rochester and Buffalo. Those large cities are capable of putting up a much more extensive defense against the gas companies than the small towns and villages in the Southern Tier. And, it might be harder to extract the gas from Utica shale than from Marcellus shale.

    But, rest assured that, if the gas companies gain access to the Southern Tier, they will ravage that, and then, when they can't turn a profit there, they will come after the Utica shale. Fracking is a huge pyramid scheme. Wells are being depleted much more quickly than anticipated and the companies involved are having to open more and more of them to keep new investments coming in and to remain profitable. The idea that fracking will be done responsibly is ridiculous. It might be able to be done, but, big business, like oil and gas, is always seeking to cut costs. As time goes by, safety is one of the first areas that gets cut. Inspections get reduced. Needed replacement of parts gets delayed. Safety personnel lose their jobs due to cutbacks. All of that costs money and spending money cuts into the bottom line. Just look at what happened in the Gulf because of that very thing.

    We need to be vigilant and pro-active here in NY State. We face a foe who obscures (even the DEC admits that the reason that they are having trouble making a decision is that they cannot get the information that they need from the oil and gas companies) and, I would suspect, lies, about what the process entails.
    Originally Posted by Alagirl
    We just love to shame poor people...when in reality, we are all just peasants.



  18. #18
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    Nov. 20, 2010
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    Upstate New York
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    Quote Originally Posted by clanter View Post
    Unless you are in valley and the drilling has taken place at much higher elevation, drilling or facting cannot affect a spring as a spring's water is a resurfacing of water that has entered the aquifer from a higher elevation.

    Fracting is injection to much lower depths
    My house sits at the bottom of a very tall line of hills, whose springs are the beginning of so many water systems, wells, etc along this line of hills. The one well that has been able to slide through the fracking permits, because it is consider Utica shale, is high up on a hill right across from the school.

    And my property is at the corner of a major turn. Quiet right now. Only noises are the brakes of the milk trucks at 5am and the school buses. Just can't wait for the tankers...
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  19. #19
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    Jun. 4, 2002
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    Suffolk, VA
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    I thought this might be a good time to share this article. It dispels some myths on the oil and gas boom in the North America.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/health...b_share_chunky



  20. #20
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    Nov. 20, 2010
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    Upstate New York
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    Absolutely agree with you, Louise. Syracuse was lucky in that their state reps got their city tacked on with the fracking (as I write this out - the spell checker is questioning fracking - they need to get that added... ) prohibitions in the same bill that excluded NYC's water supply I believe?

    But while everyone here was certain we were ready for the big boom, I don't think it will be here as soon as other areas, because my location is on the very edge of the Marcellus shale. But I won't dismiss "sometime down the road".

    I'm frankly tired of all the battles, and really have to concentrate on my own work right now, so haven't gotten up in arms as much recently.

    When I first returned here, I was involved in the fights against turbine development. The concept is lovely, but the carpet baggers who landed here offered lower rates than other areas, then turned out to not be as solvent as the lobbyists they paid portrayed them to be. These "green" companies were only in it to grab the $$$ being offered by govt funding. I used my own $$$ for another attorney to show up at meetings - on top of those who were representing immediate neighboring land owners. It was sad because the locals here were so needy they fell for their talk hook, line and sinker. Finally, after we implored the local council to take a ride up to the Tug Hill, they realized what they were in for. This little Town would never be able to afford removals if the structures had gone south. And the principals changing like winds in the night...

    Fracking is extremely frightening. And I know what the oil/gas companies can do...
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



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