So, one of the most respected training facilities with a tremendous history has been doing things wrong all this time.? They use an Austrian free ring snaffle usually with a dropped nose band when starting their youngsters.
Perhaps it's because they don't ride off their hands.
Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.
you are correct. A snaffle can be a mullen mouth. It means no leverage.
This. Thank you. A Pelham with no curb chain or curb rein, as suggested in the OP, would still be a snaffle.
It is impossible to make a blanket statement about any type of bit. Bits are a very individual preference to each horse. The shape and size of the mouth can differ and is as important as the style of bit when determining what the horse likes or goes well in. Some horses have a low palate and may want a thinner mouthpiece, others have more room in the mouth and may like it thicker. Some like a very stable bit such as a mullen mouth boucher, others are fine with a more unstable bit like a loose ring snaffle with a jointed mouth. And yes, some will not tolerate or go well in any bit and prefer a bitless option.
A friend of mine was traveling on a plane with the USET about 30 years ago. One of the members got on with a very heavy bag and when asked by the coach what it was, she replied, "My bag of bits." His reply: You'd be better off with a bag of hands.
Most people need better hands. Painting this topic w/such broad brush strokes...wow...
A snaffle does not equal a single jointed bit. It CAN but there are literally THOUSANDS of mouthpieces that a snaffle can have. A Pelham does NOT equal a Mullen mouth mouthpiece. It CAN but there are literally THOUSANDS of mouthpieces a Pelham can have INCLUDING a single jointed mouthpiece.
Yup - sorry. I think there was a more recent x-ray study done (I believe it was published in Horse Sport up here in Canada) but I couldn't find a link to it. This older study has the same conclusion, and used fluoroscopy.
I've spent most of my life riding horses. The rest I've just wasted.
My old App loved a kimberwicke, a bit that so many people GASP at, his stablemate liked his Tom Thumb, another GASP inducing bit. My App did NOT like a thin snaffle or one that could pinch his mouth corners but he did like a big old eggbutt thick snaffle as long as he had the figure 8 noseband to keep it in place.
My mares seem to not really care, they hate all the bits I've tried them in! LOL come to think of it they aren't too crazy about the saddles and bridles either!
Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.
Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.
When I first started reading this snaffle bit snafu, I thought to myself, "Self, what does a thread about the evils of snaffle bits have to do with The Three Billy Goats Gruff?" Trolls. Trolls who refuse to wash their fluffy hair because shampoo is toxic!! I think this thread was born from the land of "Seriously???"
Personally, I am baffled at the number of bits you can find now in tack stores. They make more promises than an old, horny barfly on a Saturday night. I think it's just like those "magical" halters you can buy from all those DVD trainers.
You aint kidding about that! I have seen some pretty severe/scary hackamores out there! If your horse needs that much brakes, you need to start him over from the beginning!
I've always felt like this is a fair statement regarding bits too. If I can't control my horse without some ridiculous set up then either I shouldn't be riding horse or horse needs to be retrained. I've never felt comfortable using bits with a ton of leverage and would not use a pelham on its lowest setting without double reins or a double connector thing (blanking on the term). I've never understood why people do this as that was not how they were originally designed.
Regarding snaffles; considering that as has been pointed out it is such a general term and many many well respected trainers use them to great success, I don't think they are going to go out of fashion anytime soon.
"Choose to chance the rapids, and dare to dance the tides" - Garth Brooks
"With your permission, dear, I'll take my fences one at a time" - Maggie Smith, Downton Abbey
Shape of the horse's mouth.
How he is trained to respond to however much contact.
Nature of your activity and the outline you want.
For a Western-broke horse, who responds to a hair-trigger "signal" on a fixed-shank bit, a regular broken snaffle with heavy contact will make him miserable;
For a horse who's been taught to relax his jaw and poll with a soft chewing motion, provided he has palate room he'll be happy as a clam. The best of both worlds, regrettably seldom seen today, is the double or "full" bridle.
My own preference is for any horse to be "light in hand," meaning, I don't have to use muscle to communicate with him by either hands or legs. It is not impossible to achieve in most any bit if you "give" the minute he does as a reward.
Wow, did someone just randomly write a lecture that started with a statement of the absolute (which does not exist in horse world) and continues with some massive knowledge gaps?? OMG, I love this forum.
"All generalizations are false, including this one."
"Horses hate snaffles" .....What authority came up with that statement??? If "this" were the case there wouldn't be so many show hunters going merrily along without crank, drop and figure 8 nosebands. Guess they didn't get the memo!!!