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  1. #1
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    Default Philippe Karl

    The first Philippe Karl, School of Légèreté in the USA to commence with the April 11-14 Clinic in Mercersburg PA. FMI contact Brenda at 717-477-9475 or brenda@kissdressage.com or visit pkinpa.com

    Hope to see you there!

    Brenda Lantz


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  2. #2
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    Default

    DUH, I looked at the link, never mind.



  3. #3
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    Default

    Wow!!!



  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ramener View Post
    The first Philippe Karl, School of Légèreté in the USA to commence with the April 11-14 Clinic in Mercersburg PA. FMI contact Brenda at 717-477-9475 or brenda@kissdressage.com or visit pkinpa.com

    Hope to see you there!

    Brenda Lantz
    Thanks for your reminder of this Legerite series coming up. We've been discussing the series with much enthusiasm in this thread:
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...43#post6852643

    One thing though, I've been doing some homework... Why, in the US, are they charging $400 to be a spectator for each 4 day clinic when in europe they charge 200 euros (or $261 USD).

    I wont even go into differences in the Auditing fee btw Europe and the US.

    I know the organizers need to cover the costs of holding a series like this but frankly $400 (plus of course any hotel/travel fees) is going to keep many of us away. Seems counter productive to put the high costs of instructor travel fees, venue fees and general organization costs on the backs of spectators.
    I should think that the basic concept of trying to attract spectators for pubilicity in this, the first of this series in the US, would be of primary importance.

    It is a decision that is very disappointing to us working stiffs who want to participate but financially can't...

    OK rant over - carry on
    Last edited by belgianWBLuver; Feb. 26, 2013 at 06:50 PM. Reason: additional item


    4 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by belgianWBLuver View Post
    Thanks for your reminder of this Legerite series coming up. We've been discussing the series with much enthusiasm in this thread:
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...43#post6852643

    One thing though, I've been doing some homework... Why, in the US, are they charging $400 to be a spectator for each 4 day clinic when in europe they charge 200 euros (or $261 USD).

    I wont even go into differences in the Auditing fee btw Europe and the US.

    I know the organizers need to cover the costs of holding a series like this but frankly $400 (plus of course any hotel/travel fees) is going to keep many of us away. Seems counter productive to put the high costs of instructor travel fees, venue fees and general organization costs on the backs of spectators.
    I should think that the basic concept of trying to attract spectators for pubilicity in this, the first of this series in the US, would be of primary importance.

    It is a decision that is very disappointing to us working stiffs who want to participate but financially can't...

    OK rant over - carry on
    THIS^^



  6. #6
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    Default

    YEP, THIS ^^^^ I would love to go audit, but no, I don't have an extra $400 + hotel/travel/etc. Even to audit other BNT even International BNT is no where near this much. Oh well.

    Sheila
    Sheila Zeltt
    Chestnut Run Stable & Zeltt Racing Stable
    www.Zeltt.com
    Standing "Tiz Brian" at Stud, 16.1 h bay TB by Tiznow


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  7. #7
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    Default

    NEW INFO: I owe (at least) Cadbury Farm an apology. Please follow the links regarding the PK clinics coming up on their site (link is in ideayoda's last post). The prices are a very reasonable $100 FOR ALL FOUR DAYS or $35 per day. The 4-day package also includes 2 evening sessions on "riding theory".

    These prices are very reasonable...so perhaps we have some incorrect info floating around? Maybe I was too quick to light my torch & grab the pitchfork...


    OLD POST: Funny -- I just posted the questions BwbLover answered on the other thread. Frankly, this just totally turned me off PK and everything else. It's a pretty blatant attempt to rip people off, and here in America it's just as tough as it is anywhere else in the world.

    Expenses maybe be higher getting the instructor here, but I would think doing several clinics instead of just one location would result in a bigger turn-out overall.

    Maybe use more aggressive marketing to bring people in, rather that just taking the easy way out and charging people up the whazoo.

    If PK really wants to spread the word, he's going about it the wrong way...
    Last edited by Kyzteke; Mar. 19, 2013 at 01:52 AM. Reason: new information


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  8. #8
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    Default No--It's still $100/day to audit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyzteke View Post
    NEW INFO: I owe (at least) Cadbury Farm an apology. Please follow the links regarding the PK clinics coming up on their site (link is in ideayoda's last post). The prices are a very reasonable $100 FOR ALL FOUR DAYS or $35 per day. The 4-day package also includes 2 evening sessions on "riding theory".

    These prices are very reasonable...so perhaps we have some incorrect info floating around? Maybe I was too quick to light my torch & grab the pitchfork...


    OLD POST: Funny -- I just posted the questions BwbLover answered on the other thread. Frankly, this just totally turned me off PK and everything else. It's a pretty blatant attempt to rip people off, and here in America it's just as tough as it is anywhere else in the world.

    Expenses maybe be higher getting the instructor here, but I would think doing several clinics instead of just one location would result in a bigger turn-out overall.

    Maybe use more aggressive marketing to bring people in, rather that just taking the easy way out and charging people up the whazoo.

    If PK really wants to spread the word, he's going about it the wrong way...

    No, it's $100 per day to audit according to their website. If you book in advance to audit all 3 YEARS worth of clinics it's only $$87.50 per day. Below I copied the info directly from their website.

    Sheila

    The following rates will most likely vary depending on the exchange rate with the Euro. At the present time, the following rates apply. Please note that the rates may change to reflect currency values; participants are advised to check this site often as the organizer has no control over this matter and may adjust rates accordingly.
    •Riders: $850 per each 4-day clinic
    •Full-course auditors (committed to all three years): $350 per each 4-day clinic
    •Spectators (those who purchase each 4-day clinic separately): $400 per each 4-day clinic

    Special Notes:
    •Rider payments are paid on a yearly basis. $2550 is due by January 30 of the year. This is for all 3 clinics that year (April, July, October). Installment payment option will be available (three payments of $875 due Jan. 30, Feb. 30 and March 30)
    •At the time of registration for the course, riders must pay an $850 deposit, this deposit will be applied as payment for the 10th and final clinic.
    •Full-course auditor payments are paid on a yearly basis. $1050 is due by January 30 of the year. This is for all 3 clinics that year (April, July, October). Installment payment option will be available (three payments of $375 due Jan.30, Feb. 30, and March 30)
    •At the time of registration for the course, full-course auditors must pay a $350 deposit, this deposit will be applied as payment for the 10th and final clinic.
    •Spectator payment must be made and processed two weeks prior to the start of each session.
    •There is no per diem spectating.
    Sheila Zeltt
    Chestnut Run Stable & Zeltt Racing Stable
    www.Zeltt.com
    Standing "Tiz Brian" at Stud, 16.1 h bay TB by Tiznow



  9. #9
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    Default

    While I am sure the clinic will be interesting, the forms, $$, CV required, etc are all a bit.... much.


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  10. #10
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    Default

    So does this mean the 4 clinics scheduled at Cadbury Farms are cancelled?

    Here is the info from their site:
    About the School of Légèreté
    

    Founded by Philippe Karl, the School of Légèreté is absolute respect of the horse. Légèreté (French: lightness) is a philosophy bringing together clear, effective and measurable equestrian concepts.

    The philosophy of Légèreté excludes any use of force or coercive artificial aids (including side reins, draw reins, tightly closed nosebands etc.), but includes all types of horses and takes an interest in all equestrian disciplines. It provides an understandable and reliable training plan with clear principles, efficient methods and procedures that fully respect the nature of the horse. It thus allows any seriously motivated rider access to High School equitation, even with a perfectly ordinary horse.

    $900/rider includes 1 hr. of instruction for four days and two evenings of theory instruction Thu/Fri. Only 8 rider spots are available.

    Auditing:
    $100 for all four days if pre-registered by March 1, 2013
    $120 for all four days paid on first day of clinic
    Full-clinic auditing includes two evenings of theory instruction Thu/Fri.

    $35/day for individual days


    Why the big difference in pricing?



  11. #11
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    Feb. 18, 2013
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    Default

    Ok, so there is a difference between the open clinics and the teachers certification course. I've ridden in one open clinic at cadbury farm with Bertrand. Excellent and well worth my money. The open clinics are going to vary in price for riders depending on travel expenses. The auditor fees are also going to be less. The fees at Cadbury farm are very reasonable. Its not really that far from the airport as long as you don't time it with rush hour. SeaTac is a major hub for many airlines so easy for any of you that want to come audit.

    The Teachers course is organized differently. And yes...I think its a bit of a rip off. The course in BC charges $300 for grooms to audit for the 4 days. That means as a groom you work your butt off, miss rides that you wanted to see, miss teaching opportunities and still pay $300. Shaking head here. For the full pass auditors that are signed on for all three years, they get a lot of teaching. While PK or whom ever (bertrand) is teaching the person in the ring, they are also teaching the auditors. Its very interactive. The theory sessions are excellent.

    To be in the teachers course, you need to already be an instructor. You don't stand a chance if you aren't. You have to make changes quickly. Most AAs, don't have the skills.

    The open clinics are a different story. All are welcome. No matter the level or exposure to the method. If you come audit at Cadbury farm, you will be welcomed. We're a pretty friendly bunch around here. I'm not riding in the clinic coming up, but will be in and out auditing. I do plan to be back for the june clinic. If you check the web site, I think you will see that the clinic host has also made arraignments for those who want to order lunch from one of our local eateries. They aren't cheap lunches, but they are good. She's a good hostess. She's not that far from a whole foods and PCC for those that want something else. Or you can do what I do and bring your own. I'm cheap.

    Lots of misinformation out there.


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  12. #12
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    Default

    http://www.horsecoursesonline.com/in...scription.html There is a difference (in costs) between a clinic and the actual 'course' (with theory/etc) and certification.
    I.D.E.A. yoda



  13. #13
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    Default

    Just thought I'd pop in here with an update. The open clinic with Melanie Buhlman was excellent. A ton of consistency in teaching the method between her and Bertrand, just a different emphasis as would be expected. They aren't little robots. She really focused on refining some basics to improve overall performance. She was very good at teaching feel.

    In typical PNW style, it was cold sitting there watching rides. Even with the propane heaters! Who would think that you could get that cold in 50 degree weather?

    There will be a clinic June 1-4 with Sabine Mosel who is a course instructor. This clinic will fill with first riders in the teachers course, then their exam students. It is intended as prep for the exams next April. The clinic organizer is working to get a second open clinic scheduled directly before or after. There is a lot of interest. So for anyone wanting to come and find out about the method, you have plenty of opportunity and the weather will be warmer! This time around auditors and riders had an opportunity for two nights of theory and social time. Hey we like food and wine around here!

    So look at the Cadbury website listed previously for the addition of a second open clinic to run with the one already scheduled June 1-4. Come and watch or ride. There will also be an open clinic in August. You can see the Seattle area in all its glory at that time of year.

    The clinic organizer is a good hostess and she's done a really good job getting these clinics off the ground.


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arisperson View Post
    Just thought I'd pop in here with an update. The open clinic with Melanie Buhlman was excellent. A ton of consistency in teaching the method between her and Bertrand, just a different emphasis as would be expected. They aren't little robots. She really focused on refining some basics to improve overall performance. She was very good at teaching feel.

    In typical PNW style, it was cold sitting there watching rides. Even with the propane heaters! Who would think that you could get that cold in 50 degree weather?

    There will be a clinic June 1-4 with Sabine Mosel who is a course instructor. This clinic will fill with first riders in the teachers course, then their exam students. It is intended as prep for the exams next April. The clinic organizer is working to get a second open clinic scheduled directly before or after. There is a lot of interest. So for anyone wanting to come and find out about the method, you have plenty of opportunity and the weather will be warmer! This time around auditors and riders had an opportunity for two nights of theory and social time. Hey we like food and wine around here!

    So look at the Cadbury website listed previously for the addition of a second open clinic to run with the one already scheduled June 1-4. Come and watch or ride. There will also be an open clinic in August. You can see the Seattle area in all its glory at that time of year.

    The clinic organizer is a good hostess and she's done a really good job getting these clinics off the ground.
    Thank you Aris for that update! I agree the "open clinics" are so much more reasonable in price and if any are held some what close to me, I will definately go first as an auditor first, then eventually as a participant.
    just to summarize - the prices for an open clinic as stated in the above post:
    $900/rider includes 1 hr. of instruction for four days and two evenings of theory instruction Thu/Fri. Only 8 rider spots are available.
    Auditing:
    $100 for all four days if pre-registered by March 1, 2013
    $120 for all four days paid on first day of clinic
    Full-clinic auditing includes two evenings of theory instruction Thu/Fri.

    $35/day for individual days


    My beef is with the 3 year course series - that they charge so much $$ to "spectate" each individual session. Granted the participants are teachers and will receive a license to teach. The auditors will also receive a sort of certificate of competance in the course and more importantly will learn a ton because the teaching is quite interactive.
    just to summarize the prices for this 3 year series are (from the Pennsylvania website):
    •Riders: $850 per each 4-day clinic
    •Full-course auditors (committed to all three years): $350 per each 4-day clinic
    •Spectators (those who purchase each 4-day clinic separately): $400 per each 4-day clinic


    But for those who just wish to drop in when they can as a spectator - they made it cost prohibitive...
    Last edited by belgianWBLuver; Mar. 18, 2013 at 03:10 PM. Reason: additional info



  15. #15
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arisperson View Post
    To be in the teachers course, you need to already be an instructor. You don't stand a chance if you aren't. You have to make changes quickly. Most AAs, don't have the skills.
    I haven't watched a clinic so I can't say from personal experience, but I know someone who did the course in BC. She had to send a video of her riding etc. But "qualifications as an instructor" must not be very high to get into the course. We live in a remote area, so she was searching for people who would agree to be her students so she'd have people to teach consistently in order to even fulfill the requirements of doing the course, testing etc. A 3-year commitment by students is probably more difficult that a 3-year commitment by the instructor or a spectator!

    But for those who just wish to drop in when they can as a spectator - they made it cost prohibitive...
    My feeling is that the whole idea is to present this format as some "I have the exclusive secret to harmonious training." The vibe I get is: "limited seats! Only 9 riders allowed! It's $400 to spectate! We know the secrets and we can only share with so many people at a time! Exclusive exclusive! Pay your money and you will become a master!" ... reminds me of the natural horsemanship marketing machine.
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng


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  16. #16
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    Blugal - I do understand that vibe. One thing to remember that is different between the open clinics and the teachers course, is that the teachers course is a curriculum. Just like a college course, they have a teaching plan for each session. Homework is assigned to the riders. That is not the case for open clinics.

    I think the course up in Chase, BC couldn't be more remote if it tried. Of course they accepted anyone who would commit. How else would they fill it. That being said, there are professionals in that course. They are teaching now and plan to teach PKs method. They are having an easier time making changes and will have a much easier time teaching than those who are not currently working with students. Not all of those participants are going to pass. The bar for passing is actually pretty high. Its not enough to be proficient with your own horse you need to demonstrate that you grasp the method well enough to apply it to different horses successfully.



  17. #17
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    Default

    I'm glad to hear the open clinics have garnered a lot of interest in the PNW. I wish more people in the northeast would take note of the open clinic opportunities. Open clinics are available in May, September, and November in NY. This is a wonderful riding opportunity for those that are not participating in the PKINPA program.



  18. #18
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    Default

    The assumptions in this thread are really unfair...

    The fees are more in NA because the organizers must fly each instructor across an ocean... they are not simply a drive or train ride away as they would be in Europe. Talk to the AUS people about what they pay. Should the organizers be expected to foot the bill so everyone else can watch for less money? That's a nice idea but the people hosting these clinics are working folks themselves who are just serious about sharing this kind of thing with other serious people. They should not be criticized for charging what is necessary in order to break even.

    Secondly... the fees are not that astounding when you take into account that the SoL is much more than just a series of clinics. Several FEI big wig riders and competitors' clinics are MUCH more than $100/a day to audit here in FL. Having myself attended both some of those and every installment of the SoL happening in Chase, BC- I can tell you that regardless of your beliefs and ideological bent on the subject matter, one is significantly more educationally inclusive for auditors than the other.

    As an auditor I have been able to follow the course with my horses at home very easily. PK and BR are both completely open to speaking with me and answering my questions- no matter if they are about the riders in the course or my own work at home.

    Furthermore, the horse and rider pairs chosen by PK to ride in each school are carefully selected to show a variety of issues, types and ways of going. He does not only choose big names on big, naturally talented, high dollar horses like so many clincians. One of the horses I learn the most watching is a little QH that was starting to school piaffe last we saw him.

    Having also had the chance to ride with a SoL instructor twice (Nicole Weinauge), it is incredibly encouraging to be able to recognize a consistant progression within the work- nothing comes as a surprise or out of left field.

    Quite frankly, as a young person who travels farther than anyone else (other than the instructor!) in order to attend the BC clinics, if you are a serious about this opportunity... you will make it work. This is not a relaxing holiday weekend to learn tips and tricks, we are often sitting through brain numbing temperatures for hours on end and are thankful for every bit of it. Myself and several other auditors have banned together to share every other expense we can- we rock a three woman hotel room slumber party every night. There are even people who tent camp to save money!

    This the closest thing to formal high-school instruction that this continent has ever had... and yes, it's open to everyone... not just men, not just professionals, not just fancy horses.


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