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  1. #121
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2005
    Location
    Some where in the middle of nowhere.
    Posts
    3,849

    Default

    Here is Yuki at one of their events.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

    They believe this ^^ is ok but Carriage Horses are exploitative.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"



  2. #122
    Join Date
    Jul. 15, 2003
    Location
    Brooksville, FL
    Posts
    4,524

    Default

    The apple smoosh video and pictures are all taken down.

    Jswan, which photo did you comment on?
    Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
    Bernard M. Baruch



  3. #123
    Join Date
    Sep. 18, 2003
    Posts
    5,133

    Default

    This one

    We're both called out in it, along with other folks. What's really funny is that, since our posts were deleted, it looks like the admin is having a raging debate with itself.
    __________________________
    "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
    the best day in ten years,
    you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2002
    Location
    Lots of M states...
    Posts
    2,088

    Default

    Looking through photos from Carriage Horse Cruelty's latest album... (not sure if this link works: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=3&theater)

    Debbie Peres says: he looks like a jerk and willing to bet most of carriage drivers are foriegners just like cab drivers

    Nothing says "I am making an educated decision to help abused animals" like straight-up racism... spelled wrong...


    4 members found this post helpful.

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    In Jingle Town
    Posts
    36,425

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mp View Post
    This one

    We're both called out in it, along with other folks. What's really funny is that, since our posts were deleted, it looks like the admin is having a raging debate with itself.
    Nothing spells sanity like an animated discussion with one self, no?
    Quote Originally Posted by BigMama1 View Post
    Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
    GNU Terry Prachett



  6. #126
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2008
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    317

    Default

    I don't know why I'm so interested in this. But I did get the impression -can't remember which FB page I was on- they are following COTH threads. Maybe the possibility of being liable for what they are posting is making them get a bit spastic. For those who are really following them, do record what you can.

    Incidentally, I would LOVE LOVE to see some attorneys step up and pursue this on contingency. Take a stand to protect horse people who put halters on their horses, ask horses to live outside in temps beyond the range of 65-75 degrees, feed their horses an apple without using a bucket! I've experienced defamation per se and I can't imagine how stressful it is for these drivers to operate in surrounded by such blind hostility. I'm sure this is negatively impacting their business. It wouldn't be hard at all to survey average NYC visitors and discover that people have reservations about carriage rides as a result of this disinformation campaign. Take a stand against slander in general. It's horrible for the victim and terrible for our society to allow it. I love America and our freedom of speech, but there are limits under the law and when crossed there needs to be consequence. (PS a nicely drafted letter on an reputable attorney's letterhead is a wonderful thing. It can't fix damage but it can stop it.)

    So...I have a background in animal rights. When I was in 5th grade I started getting solicited with all sorts of animal related material. I had a subscription to Horse Illustrated and Practical Horseman and I think someone "adopted a whale" in my name. Anyway, I don't know how they found me, but I was HORRIFIED by what I received. They sent disturbing pictures and videos (which were the worst. I can still see the lab monkeys in my head). I don't know if that still goes on, but I believe it should be illegal to send that stuff to minors. I still care deeply about the appropriate care and management of animals but I hate PETA and the rest.

    Anyway, I share this because I think there is value in promoting discussion on those pages. Not everyone on there is a vacuous inbred. Some may just be young animal lovers with little exposure to the issue at hand. They are figuring things out and they will be swayed by facts. These are not black and white questions. The plight of carriage horses during the Industrial Revolution was widely commented upon with resulting legislation (generally preceding child welfare laws as we know them). Very real horse abuse happens with little authorities can do to stop it. Videos taken of chimps in labs led to Jane Goodall's involvement and not only better treatment of HIV/AIDS research chimps, but better research. But notice Jane Goodall never said "stop doing the research." I am similarly influenced by the work and writing of Temple Grandin. True morality is in the grey zone.

    I think the reason RARA has always been and will always stay on the fringes is because those drawn to the message really like animals. As in, want and enjoy their company. They pretty much all have pets and in the end they can't bring their own lives into alignment with the RARA decree and so are in a constant process of alienating their own core. I've met lots of vegans but none who made their dogs go veggie/vegan. Dog and cat owners are by definition major meat consumers. Pretty much all dedicated rescue and shelter advocates use some animal products and enjoy modern medicine.

    Animals are not always managed well, but they can be! Those who do a good job should be respected, celebrated and encouraged.
    An auto-save saved my post.

    I might be a cylon


    4 members found this post helpful.

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    In Jingle Town
    Posts
    36,425

    Default

    well, to have a discussion you have to let both parties speak.
    Blanking one out while responding with 'you are a big mean poopy-head' is really not constructive!

    And last, while the nuttiest of the nutbars will always be on the fringe, the other nut flavors are sneaking their way onto the mainstream pallet...one nutty bite at a time

    It certainly does not help when they have no longer any means of comparing their MLP world to reality.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigMama1 View Post
    Facts don't have versions. If they do, they are opinions
    GNU Terry Prachett


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 2007
    Location
    Tampa Fl.
    Posts
    4,286

    Default

    got it! you are confirmed !

    Quote Originally Posted by Amwrider View Post
    Munchingonhay, I sent you a friend request on FB

    and now I am banned from posting on that FB page. Oh poop.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Mar. 15, 2007
    Location
    (throw dart at map) NC!
    Posts
    7,858

    Default

    I was an activist on many fronts in college. But in no way was I as rude and uneducated as the people on this Facebook page are (especially the owner of the page). The owner says things that don't even make sense! They are seriously hurting, not helping, their cause. Jane Goodall was an academic before her involvement in Chimp welfare, and Tempel G. was in the beef industry before she became famous. Both women used professionalism, tact and knowledge to make great gains for animals in their respective fields.
    Proud member of the Colbert Dressage Nation


    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2008
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    317

    Default

    I dunno, I have to believe that every time a reasonable comment gets deleted someone out there sees it, scratches their head and moves on. And that is a good thing.
    An auto-save saved my post.

    I might be a cylon


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2000
    Posts
    22,498

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Amwrider View Post
    Jswan, which photo did you comment on?
    The "vomit" photo. Come to think of it, I don't know how I came across it. FB is pretty much a Great Mystery to me. I just blunder about forwarding funny photos and complaining about mud. I also complain about the government, a huge abscess in my horse's hoof, my weight, you know.. normal stuff.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #132
    Join Date
    Sep. 21, 2009
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    1,546

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MandyVA View Post
    There have to be lawyers that would take this on a contingency fee basis. Per se libel, with compensatory damages, emotional distress, and punitive damages could be pretty significant. Hell I'd be tempted if I was licensed in NY.
    If there are, we haven't found them.

    If you are ever tempted to get licensed in NYC.....
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts



  13. #133
    Join Date
    Sep. 21, 2009
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    1,546

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HillnDale View Post
    I don't know why I'm so interested in this. But I did get the impression -can't remember which FB page I was on- they are following COTH threads. Maybe the possibility of being liable for what they are posting is making them get a bit spastic. For those who are really following them, do record what you can.

    Incidentally, I would LOVE LOVE to see some attorneys step up and pursue this on contingency. Take a stand to protect horse people who put halters on their horses, ask horses to live outside in temps beyond the range of 65-75 degrees, feed their horses an apple without using a bucket! I've experienced defamation per se and I can't imagine how stressful it is for these drivers to operate in surrounded by such blind hostility. I'm sure this is negatively impacting their business. It wouldn't be hard at all to survey average NYC visitors and discover that people have reservations about carriage rides as a result of this disinformation campaign. Take a stand against slander in general. It's horrible for the victim and terrible for our society to allow it. I love America and our freedom of speech, but there are limits under the law and when crossed there needs to be consequence. (PS a nicely drafted letter on an reputable attorney's letterhead is a wonderful thing. It can't fix damage but it can stop it.)

    So...I have a background in animal rights. When I was in 5th grade I started getting solicited with all sorts of animal related material. I had a subscription to Horse Illustrated and Practical Horseman and I think someone "adopted a whale" in my name. Anyway, I don't know how they found me, but I was HORRIFIED by what I received. They sent disturbing pictures and videos (which were the worst. I can still see the lab monkeys in my head). I don't know if that still goes on, but I believe it should be illegal to send that stuff to minors. I still care deeply about the appropriate care and management of animals but I hate PETA and the rest.

    Anyway, I share this because I think there is value in promoting discussion on those pages. Not everyone on there is a vacuous inbred. Some may just be young animal lovers with little exposure to the issue at hand. They are figuring things out and they will be swayed by facts. These are not black and white questions. The plight of carriage horses during the Industrial Revolution was widely commented upon with resulting legislation (generally preceding child welfare laws as we know them). Very real horse abuse happens with little authorities can do to stop it. Videos taken of chimps in labs led to Jane Goodall's involvement and not only better treatment of HIV/AIDS research chimps, but better research. But notice Jane Goodall never said "stop doing the research." I am similarly influenced by the work and writing of Temple Grandin. True morality is in the grey zone.

    I think the reason RARA has always been and will always stay on the fringes is because those drawn to the message really like animals. As in, want and enjoy their company. They pretty much all have pets and in the end they can't bring their own lives into alignment with the RARA decree and so are in a constant process of alienating their own core. I've met lots of vegans but none who made their dogs go veggie/vegan. Dog and cat owners are by definition major meat consumers. Pretty much all dedicated rescue and shelter advocates use some animal products and enjoy modern medicine.

    Animals are not always managed well, but they can be! Those who do a good job should be respected, celebrated and encouraged.
    Great post, and very much appreciated, a balm for my sore eyes.

    And yes, they read this forum
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #134
    Join Date
    Sep. 21, 2009
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    1,546

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    well, to have a discussion you have to let both parties speak.
    Blanking one out while responding with 'you are a big mean poopy-head' is really not constructive!

    And last, while the nuttiest of the nutbars will always be on the fringe, the other nut flavors are sneaking their way onto the mainstream pallet...one nutty bite at a time

    It certainly does not help when they have no longer any means of comparing their MLP world to reality.
    All very true....
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts



  15. #135
    Join Date
    May. 8, 2006
    Location
    Northern Indiana
    Posts
    765

    Default

    michaleenflynn - how long a 'shift' does the typical carriage horse work? I honestly don't know, I've always heard that it was something like three or four hours until a break....I know it's not 9 hours like the crazies have been saying....right?
    To be loved by a horse should fill us with awe, for we hath not deserved it.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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