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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2004
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    Virginia. We Do Ponies!
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    Yes, to me. And to most of the breeders I know that are hard and fast by the traditional rules of breeding.

    The reasoning behind that way of thinking is the stallion can sire many, many get during the course of a year, but a mare can carry only one, therefore half siblings when from the same mare and unrelated if by the same sire.

    *Half-brother or half-sister definition:Two horses with the same dam. Two horses with the same sire are simply said to be by the same sire.

    Calling them half siblings when by the same sire is completely wrong....DNA and all.
    Take it up with the American Jockey Club, Bloodhorse or any of the original organizations that made the rules. I just follow them. Correctly!
    Randee Beckman ~Otteridge Farm, LLC (http://on.fb.me/1iJEqvR)~ Marketing Manager - The Clothes Horse & Jennifer Oliver, Equine Insurance Specialist



  2. #22
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    Jan. 28, 2002
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    Alberta, Canada
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    Yes, and it's a very old way of thinking...and the Thoroughbred way of thinking. Connemara breeders still call their ponies dun, when in fact they are actually buckskin. It's a tradition....but it doesn't make it correct. Like I said in my previous post, I don't care how many more foals a sire has, over what a dam can produce. At the end of the day, the sire is still passing on 50% of a foals total chromosomes. I don't mind if you call them "by the same sire", that's your choice. I just simple either call them maternal half siblings or paternal half siblings. On a genetic level, both ways are correct terms.

    It's sort of like religion. I won't shove my religion down your throat, so don't shove yours down mine.
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Welsh Pony, ISR/Oldenburg & RPSI pony stallions Daventry's Power Play, Goldhills Brandysnap LOM & Alvesta Picasso
    Also home to www.EquineAppraisers.com


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    Jul. 14, 2004
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    Virginia. We Do Ponies!
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    Tracy, it *may* be an old way of thinking (the Jockey Club was formed in 1984) but that's where registry rules came from. I'd call that far from a "tradition".
    And just think! They could have incorporated the half siblings to include 'by the same sire' then too, but they didn't. There was thoughtful consideration behind the rules when they were created and those chromosomes were there then, too. Folks that haven't been breeding long or are uneducated in breeding facts make lots of mistakes in terminology (when listing pedigrees some list the mare first; when discussing pedigrees some say out of _________(stallions name); half sibling when the animal is by the same stallion) just to name the biggest and most common mistakes.

    Regarding the Connemara color situation, I'd say it's a breed/regional thing. The same way as 'sorrel' and chestnut.

    Saying a pony/horse is a half sibling if by the same sire makes anyone that considers themselves a breeder look very uneducated. But, don't take my word for it.......ask other long time breeders. They'll tell you the same thing unless it's a Canadian thing???
    And then take it up with the Jockey Club registry! I'd love to know their reply! Mad science indeed!
    Last edited by VirginiaBred; Feb. 25, 2013 at 06:35 PM.
    Randee Beckman ~Otteridge Farm, LLC (http://on.fb.me/1iJEqvR)~ Marketing Manager - The Clothes Horse & Jennifer Oliver, Equine Insurance Specialist



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2002
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    Alberta, Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaBred View Post
    Tracy, it *may* be an old way of thinking (the Jockey Club was formed in 1984) but that's where registry rules came from. I'd call that far from a "tradition".
    And just think! They could have incorporated the half siblings to include 'by the same sire' then too, but they didn't. There was thoughtful consideration behind the rules when they were created and those chromosomes were there then, too. Folks that haven't been breeding long or are uneducated in breeding facts make lots of mistakes in terminology (when listing pedigrees some list the mare first; when discussing pedigrees some say out of _________(stallions name); half sibling when the animal is by the same stallion) just to name the biggest and most common mistakes.

    Regarding the Connemara color situation, I'd say it's a breed/regional thing. The same way as 'sorrel' and chestnut.

    Saying a pony/horse is a half sibling if by the same sire makes anyone that considers themselves a breeder look very uneducated. But, don't take my word for it.......ask other long time breeders. They'll tell you the same thing unless it's a Canadian thing???
    And then take it up with the Jockey Club registry! I'd love to know their reply! Mad science indeed!
    I concede then. I guess I am not a breeder, I am incredibly uneducated and know nothing about genetics. Since I have absolutely nothing to do with The Jockey Club, I will be sure to follow their traditions from now on.

    I apologize for this thread going off topic. Back to talking about Cobs!
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Welsh Pony, ISR/Oldenburg & RPSI pony stallions Daventry's Power Play, Goldhills Brandysnap LOM & Alvesta Picasso
    Also home to www.EquineAppraisers.com


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2004
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    Virginia. We Do Ponies!
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    Agreed.
    Randee Beckman ~Otteridge Farm, LLC (http://on.fb.me/1iJEqvR)~ Marketing Manager - The Clothes Horse & Jennifer Oliver, Equine Insurance Specialist



  6. #26
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    fwiw, it isn't the Irish's fault that the buckskin gene was named buckskin and not Dun (or some other name) ... so it isn't really fair to say they are ignorant.... it could of been the person naming the gene that was ignorant that many many people use the term "dun"




  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar. 28, 2006
    Location
    Oregon
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    I know Earl and his owners, and have seen him at many shows over the years. He is a lovely, kind boy, and his owners are wonderful people.

    I know he spent some time in the past year with a trainer in the Eugene area, but he is back home with his owners now.

    He is very "pony type" with a darling head and nice overall conformation. I owned a beautiful half Welsh daughter of his some years ago, and she was fabulously athletic with the most spectacular jump. More recently we had a purebred daughter of his in for training, and she came along very nicely.

    If you contact his owner, I'm sure she would be very happy to supply you with information on his offspring. He has been a good producer of both purebred and half Welsh foals.
    Family Partners Welsh Ponies - Home of Section B Welsh stallion *Wedderlie Mardi Gras LOM/AOE http://www.welshponies.com
    Click here to buy: A Guide To In Hand Showing of Your Welsh Pony



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