[Martha Drum]

Except that the mandatory health insurance is still coming from an insurance company, who are always looking for ways to get someone else to pick up the tab. I doubt that will change.

Good points and mbm too. I might have been a little *rolly eyes* when I added that comment. Insurance companies! Don't even get me started on liability insurance if you hope to do pony birthday parties at the farm or offer summer programs!!!

editing to add that I refer to the big underwriting companies...some of the nicest people I know are local insurance agents!

[jjgg24]

Interesting. It is not offered in California. Can you post a link?

Let me see if I can find the specific company it has been about a year since I came across the info through the pet sitting service I contracted through.

[Hpilot]

What about the neighborhood teen who comes to mow your lawn once or twice every week on a Tuesday and Saturday and uses your lawn mower? How many out there paying taxes, SSI and WC? Just curious.

[jjgg24]

Again, I'm 100% AGAINST paying under the table, but I do believe there is a way for this situation to be legal and if the barn owner's had a very specific contract then they probably could have avoided many problems. As I said I don't hold the 17 year old completely responsible but I do wonder where her parents were.

[jjgg24]

What about the neighborhood teen who comes to mow your lawn once or twice every week on a Tuesday and Saturday and uses your lawn mower? How many out there paying taxes, SSI and WC? Just curious.

Depends how much in a year you pay them. I believe the limit is $600 but I could be wrong.

[oldernewbie]

What about the neighborhood teen who comes to mow your lawn once or twice every week on a Tuesday and Saturday and uses your lawn mower? How many out there paying taxes, SSI and WC? Just curious.

There's an exemption - like $1000 a quarter - for this type of situation. Check the IRS guidelines for the exact amount.

[Gestalt]

She wasn't 17 when injured was she? I thought it said she began working for them at 17. Just about every boarding or training barn I have been around has some type of "work cheap and I'll get you training and experience" program. So does the girl have to pay back taxes on her wages.

I've done pasture feeding for more years than I care to count. Isn't it common to carry a short whip to keep the horses from crowding you? You can feed alone easily that way.

[jjgg24]

She wasn't 17 when injured was she? I thought it said she began working for them at 17. Just about every boarding or training barn I have been around has some type of "work cheap and I'll get you training and experience" program. So does the girl have to pay back taxes on her wages.

I've done pasture feeding for more years than I care to count. Isn't it common to carry a short whip to keep the horses from crowding you? You can feed alone easily that way.

The way I read the article is that the girl was set up as 1099 independent contractor and not being paid under the table. Therefore, all along she should have been paying her own taxes.

I agree with everything else you said though and feel like she probably had a decent set up (training horses, attending seminars, etc) before this happened got hurt (from what I imagine is probably by her own mistake if she had been kicked previously) and sued the owners. Unfortunately, it didn't work out for the owners and the rest of us can learn from their mistakes.

[tangledweb]

What about the neighborhood teen who comes to mow your lawn once or twice every week on a Tuesday and Saturday and uses your lawn mower? How many out there paying taxes, SSI and WC? Just curious.

Is that a serious question?

If you tell them what time to be at work, train them on how to mow lawns, tell them what order to do tasks in, make them wear your uniform and nametag, pay them by the hour (not the task), don't let them mow lawns for others and provide them with the lawn mower, then yes they are probably an employee.

[mvp]

Is that a serious question?

If you tell them what time to be at work, train them on how to mow lawns, tell them what order to do tasks in, make them wear your uniform and nametag, pay them by the hour (not the task), don't let them mow lawns for others and provide them with the lawn mower, then yes they are probably an employee.

Asked and answered above. Folks, I don't think the IRS is here to make mountains of molehills-- making it hard for people to hire kids (or anyone) to do odd jobs, so long as the money involved is minor.

[mvp]

Just about every boarding or training barn I have been around has some type of "work cheap and I'll get you training and experience" program.

A few places here in cleaned-up Oregon have tried to tart up their mucking jobs into Working Student positions. They usually trade board for one horse. But they boast "training" involved that doesn't involve much riding or even grooming.

To me, this looks like a bad deal. Few want to become skilled in the art of stall cleaning. And the folks that do know the business end of a pitch fork here in Oregon and might spend more time working in agriculture often got that working on a family farm or ranch. Also, the number of stalls discussed compared with the price of board has the "working student" working for about half of minimum wage.

[Laurierace]

You all agree with the verdict right up to the point your board doubles or triples...

Or in this case they declare bankruptcy and have to sell the place and everybody has to move out. All because the BO didn't have workman's comp. It would have added a dollar or so per month to their board for the premium depending upon how many boarders she had.

[Gestalt]

A few places here in cleaned-up Oregon have tried to tart up their mucking jobs into Working Student positions. They usually trade board for one horse. But they boast "training" involved that doesn't involve much riding or even grooming.

To me, this looks like a bad deal. Few want to become skilled in the art of stall cleaning. And the folks that do know the business end of a pitch fork here in Oregon and might spend more time working in agriculture often got that working on a family farm or ranch. Also, the number of stalls discussed compared with the price of board has the "working student" working for about half of minimum wage.

I live in OR and hadn't realized things had changed. When I worked for a trainer ($5 an hour) I did not clean stalls. My job was to tack up and untack the in-training horses. My reward was a couple of lessons throughout the day on client horses that weren't scheduled to jump that day.

[Kate66]

Is that a serious question?

If you tell them what time to be at work, train them on how to mow lawns, tell them what order to do tasks in, make them wear your uniform and nametag, pay them by the hour (not the task), don't let them mow lawns for others and provide them with the lawn mower, then yes they are probably an employee.

If only it were that simple. You don't have to wear a uniform and nametag, or prevent them from mowing for others, for them to be an employee. It's all about whether they use your equipment or not, you tell them what to do or not and how much you pay them. Whether you pay by the job, the hour, the week or the month is irrelevant. In reality the kid that mows your lawn may well need to be treated as an employee.

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p926/ar02.html

[Kate66]

Is that a serious question?

If you tell them what time to be at work, train them on how to mow lawns, tell them what order to do tasks in, make them wear your uniform and nametag, pay them by the hour (not the task), don't let them mow lawns for others and provide them with the lawn mower, then yes they are probably an employee.

If only it were that simple. You don't have to wear a uniform and nametag, or prevent them from mowing for others, for them to be an employee. It's all about whether they use your equipment or not, you tell them what to do or not and how much you pay them. Whether you pay by the job, the hour, the week or the month is irrelevant. In reality the kid that mows your lawn may well need to be treated as an employee.

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p926/ar02.html

So, "I want you to come Tuesday and Saturday at 3pm. Cut the front lawn, the back lawn and trim around the edges. The lawmower and the edger are in the garage. I'll pay you $40/week". Guess what - you've just got yourself an employee.

[oldernewbie]

If only it were that simple. You don't have to wear a uniform and nametag, or prevent them from mowing for others, for them to be an employee. It's all about whether they use your equipment or not, you tell them what to do or not and how much you pay them. Whether you pay by the job, the hour, the week or the month is irrelevant. In reality the kid that mows your lawn may well need to be treated as an employee.

http://www.irs.gov/publications/p926/ar02.html

So, "I want you to come Tuesday and Saturday at 3pm. Cut the front lawn, the back lawn and trim around the edges. The lawmower and the edger are in the garage. I'll pay you $40/week". Guess what - you've just got yourself an employee.

Yes but taxes only if you pay more than $1800 a year. I guess you could hit that in some parts of the country but....

[Pennywell Bay]

The girl was 18 when the accident occurred. She started at the farm at 17 in 2010.
I think that is a problem with the legal system, that she started out of over a 1 million dollar lawsuit, and took away 1/4 million.
For the barn owners, I guess ignorance of the law is no excuse and that is what they are paying for. I still think the decision sucks.

[quarterhorse4me]

From a lawyer's perspective, I do wonder where the break down was that this case ended up in an actual trial. The out of pockets for the injury were not that extreme. I would love to know if there were any offers on the table and who walked away.

[tangledweb]

In reality the kid that mows your lawn may well need to be treated as an employee.

I hope you do not play an accountant in real life. 926 is not about employee vs independent contractor it is about employee vs household employee.

[mvp]

From a lawyer's perspective, I do wonder where the break down was that this case ended up in an actual trial. The out of pockets for the injury were not that extreme. I would love to know if there were any offers on the table and who walked away.

That's a good question. So the medical bills are $14k, she asks for $1.7M and gets $250K in non-medical compensation because that's the state's limit. That is for pain and suffering? Future wages lost? Being punitive to the employer?

Maybe someone wanted to make this general point to BOs in court and this kid's case proved to have the right ingredients. Kid didn't have much to lose but might gain a lot, as she did?