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  1. #1
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    Default Oscar Pistorius Arrested for Pre-Meditated Murder

    I am wondering how much press the arrest of Oscar Pistorius last Thursday morning is receiving in the U.S.

    The details that are coming out in the press each day since last Thursday's shooting of Reeva Steenkamp are getting more and more awful:

    http://mg.co.za/article/2013-02-18-p...races-ahead-of

    They found a bloody cricket bat in the house. This poor, poor woman.

    Coverage is pretty extensive here and it seems that people are still in shock that a man who truly was a "national hero" has completely fallen.

    I guess it says a lot about how we tend to put athletes on a pedastal but Oscar's story was just so compelling, to put it lightly. For some reason I am extraordinarily depressed about this particular fall from grace.


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  2. #2
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    I don't want to say I told you so, but I seem to remember being raked over the coals for questioning this guy's hero status back in August. I'm paraphrasing, but it went something like "Pistorius has moral fiber, unlike [SNL]."

    Who has the "moral fiber" now?
    "Are you yawning? You don't ride well enough to yawn. I can yawn, because I ride better than you. Meredith Michael Beerbaum can yawn. But you? Not so much..."
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  3. #3
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    The police do not lightly charge someone with premeditated murder, unless there is a lot of evidence. And I know South Africa has a lot of crime, but he lived in a gated community with 10 foot walls, and armed guards 24/7. The police had also been called to the house on more than one occasion because of domestic issues. You notice his past girlfriends aren't coming forward to say they're shocked about this, or say he's not a violent person. The close neighbors also heard yelling coming from the house before the fatal shots were fired, and that must have been very loud to wake them up. The house (you can see the pictures online) was a fortress with huge metal shutters blocking the house from the street, and blocking yard access too. I think his story sucks, and I think he did exactly what he's been charged with. I feel so sorry for that poor girl and her family.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White


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  4. #4
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    It's a horrendous crime. I think the world is watching in amazement and disgust.

    I doubt very much, however, that anyone watching Olympic coverage could have predicted it back in August. Maybe his past girlfriends but none of that came up, AFAIK. I do remember debate over how cocky some of the sprinters are, but one can certainly say that many sprinters are cocky without equating that on any level with being a murderer. Most sports heroes are cocky and luckily, very few murder their girlfriends. There are, of course, a few famous cases!


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  5. #5
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    Ford, I agree with you regarding pro athletes. They do live in a bubble surrounded by acolytes and just as we know that top equine athletes are often irascible SOBs, that cocky edge in people makes them such fierce competitors.

    But of course they're all not driven to domestic abuse and murder.

    It's been a period of soul-searching in SA following the Marakana mine shootings last year and economic and political malaise almost 20 years on from the historic '94 elections and the transition to democracy. It's a sporting mad country in a lot of ways and took such pride in Pistorius' accomplishments that for some reason it seems all the more depressing.


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  6. #6
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    It's getting tremendous coverage here in the USA.


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy Gray VA View Post
    I am wondering how much press the arrest of Oscar Pistorius last Thursday morning is receiving in the U.S
    In the US its been front page news and updates with the unfolding events every day. The story only was bumped down when the Russian asteroid and Carnival Cruise story was swirling.

    It appears that a fair amount of less hero-like details regarding Oscar were quietly dismissed before. After this horrific crime those other bits are coming out. e.g. threatening to break the legs of another man (how ironic) who was a rival suitor with another woman. The drunk boating accident. etc

    Unless I'm mistaken wasn't he a dick (for lack of a better term) for criticizing a competitor with cheating in his Paralympic loss?

    I'm not shocked however that Nike is sticking with him for now. Do they only back off siding with any athlete who gets in trouble when it will mean less sales? One of the most ethically challenged companies in the world.


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  8. #8
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    OK SNL, you were right. One more sports "hero" who is a monster. Latest news, from Beedl (Beeld?) the newspaper there, is that he shot his girlfriend in her hip and she ran into bathroom and sat down and he shot through the door. And she was in her nightgown. And of course they'd been arguing before that.

    But his defense will portray this all as an accident and say that he thought she was a burglar.

    It's sad, the saddest thing being that she was murdered, but sad that we put our sports heroes on pedestals without knowing what they really are like. I thought it was great to see someone overcome his handicap and run on his blades. But the sad thing is that he was then and is now a monster, just another bad human being who kills people.



  9. #9
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    It's getting HUGE press in the US. Front page story since it broke. Pretty girl murdered by athlete - they'll run with this one for as long as they can. And it ties in well with the current gun debate and the Lance Armstrong stories.

    Which, btw, is driving me a little crazy. Various media outlets (websites, TV news, etc.) have been doing features on "bad athletes" in the wake of this story. And these stories of sports scandals are basically equating people who committed horrendous violent crimes, mostly against women, to people who used drugs to gain an advantage or bet on a game. Do OJ Simpson (tore woman's head off with knife), Pete Rose (bet on sports), Ray Lewis (involved in multiple murder), Marion Jones (steroid use), Lance Armstrong (drugs), and the whole child-rape scandal Penn State debacle belong in the same story? Is "violating" the ethics of Sport really as or more serious than raping a kid or shooting a woman?



  10. #10
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    Who knows what anyone is "really like," though? If that were the standard it would be impossible to ever admire anyone's accomplishments. I don't have a window to other people's souls (and neither does anyone else on here.)



  11. #11
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    Big media coverage over here. It's similar to OJ except the internet has made news travel in an instant. The circumstances remind me of the Yeardley Love murder.

    I think the shock is because we want to believe that a disabled person who overcomes adversity is a wonderful human being and an example to all of us. The truth is that disabled people are just like all of us; they are not naturally imbued with some special virtues. In Pistorius' case, this "noble disabled" image was how he was marketed. In some respects, the notority of this case is a direct result on the prior effectiveness of his marketing.

    I suspect Oscar will be going to prison for a long time when this case is adjudicated. He will be forgotten, which may be for him the worst punishment of all.
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  12. #12
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    It is now being reported that Pistorius applied for nine more gun permits in January, citing the crime rate. Apparently, illegal steroids were found in the house, and what do you want to bet that will be tried as a defense-he couldn't help it, it was the drugs that made him do it.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White


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  13. #13
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    Magistrate at the bail hearing this a.m. has ruled he'll be prosecuted for a schedule 6 offence - pre-meditated murder. This will make the application for bail by the defense very difficult.

    I think another element of shock in this case is the filter we use to view persons with disabilities in general - perhaps attributing heroic accomplishments to them in a one-dimensional way as opposed to looking at them as "complete" people warts and all. Of course, this is easy to do if one is not personally acquainted with them.

    Throw in general admiration for successful athletes in general and you've certainly got the makings of a very very hard fall from grace.



  14. #14
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    Trial by press is pretty damning. I don't know the law in SA, but, at here, its at least a polite courtesy to wait for the trial before pronouncing guilt. Yes, the details sound horrific, but the police (at least here) most certainly can get it wrong (as well as right). "Charging" is not the same as "convicting".


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilitiger2 View Post
    Trial by press is pretty damning. I don't know the law in SA, but, at here, its at least a polite courtesy to wait for the trial before pronouncing guilt.
    Wait, "here" as in the US? The media waits politely? Daphuk?


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  16. #16
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    Here in the US, however, quaint the idea, we actually (theoretically) DO wait until the trial before pronouncing a verdict (inconvenient, yes, but still...). Never mentioned the media which, as far as I know, at least legally, is not in the business of deciding cases. But, as we can see, that seems to be a trivial technicality.



  17. #17
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    But as we all should know, a court verdict is not necessarily an accurate depiction of whether the person committed the act. See, e.g., OJ Simpson. And defendants who get off due to lack of admissible evidence as a result of Fourth Amendment violations. "Not guilty" does not mean "innocent," here or anywhere.

    The media doesn't always get it right (do they ever get anything 100% right?) but neither do the courts. Full knowledge before we can talk about anything is unrealistic.



  18. #18
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    Fordtraktor, I agree that the courts most assuredly do not always get it right. Most people dofind it preferable to crowd/mob/vigilante justice, that there is a procedure in place to guarantee that an accused supposedly gets a "fair" process. That's the theory, but certainly our history demonstrates many, many cases where this is not what happened. But. It is likely better than most alternatives and it is the system we have. You have to prove guilt, not innocence, and if you have ever been in the system, you really appreciate what that means.

    And the trial by press, everyone jumping to (sometimes) wildy inaccurate conclusions is definitely a concerning issue for me. As far as the press goes, locally we have several instances of accusations, totally magnified by the press and of course accepted as "fact", that later turned out to be completely and totally false. And the individuals, although legally exonerated, will never be able to live and work in this community. If the people are guilty - have at it, but when "facts" are only emerging, and there is lots and lots of speculation, its hell for everyone involved.

    Truly, not trying to be snarky,just an issue with which I have some experience.



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilitiger2 View Post
    Never mentioned the media
    Errr...you specifically said "trial by press."

    What's happening in the Pistorius case now is media-driven, digging up dirt and speculating on guilt. The exact same thing would happen in the US with a higgh-profile suspect. Officially the SA legal system has only said what the charge will be, so I have no idea why you tried to contrast how things would be handled at the same point in the "quaint, politely courteous" US.



  20. #20
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    Gosh, how does one mistake their girlfriend for an intruder? That seems like a far fetched defense.


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