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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 20, 2006
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    178

    Default Stallions and Non-Payment of the Stallion Test

    In light of recent conversations regarding stallion owners transparency, we have been asked numerous times why we did not make a public statement regarding non-payment of the stallion test to give indication of the ethical standards of the stallion owners.

    When we started the Stallion Test, we worked very hard to gain the trust of the stallion owners, and to make this avenue easily available to support the growth of North American breeding. Of course, hindsight is 20/20, and it is easy to look back and know what you would do differently. Unfortunately, the ability to have a payment plan was taken advantage of by more than one stallion owner at the 2009 testing.

    I would like to add that we have had 100% payment from all stallion owners since that testing and appreciate their continued support for the test.

    This notification is in no way a judgement on the business practices of the stallion owners. It is merely a transparent public statement as to the non-payment for the 2009 testing. Here are the additional stallions for which there has been non-payment and have a current contractual lien with us:

    1.) Escapade I
    2.) Escapade II
    3.) Delacroix
    4.) Aloha

    We have been in contact with the registries and many of them continue to support the testing and everything it does for the breeders and are at this time withholding the full/permanent breeding licenses till notification of payment from us. Our continued goal is to provide a fair and neutral avenue for stallion licensing for all the stallion owners and registries and appreciate the overwhelming support that we have received.
    Last edited by SilverCreek; Feb. 18, 2013 at 04:53 PM.


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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 2000
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    9,747

    Default

    That is sobering info, Summer - FOUR of the fourteen stallions in the 2009 70DT never paid up? So did their owners think you were holding the SPT just for fun and were going to subsidize their participation there?

    Equally sad is that at least one of those stallions is still showing as an approved stallion on one registry's roster - along with his results from the SC test:
    70 DT: 2009 at Silver Creek Farm, OK, 80.25 points, 12/16

    Furthermore, one of that stallion's sons is also showing as an approved stallion on that registry's roster - and actually participated in the 2012 testing.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
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    Feb. 20, 2006
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    Default

    Yes, that's correct. And despite repeated attempts to contact the stallion owners, it was to no avail. Needless to say, that is why we no longer have a payment plan option for the stallion testing, and the test must be paid in order to have scores given.

    With regard to the stallion that you mentioned, his son was bred in 2008, and the stallion did not attend the test till 2009. Therefore, the non-payment of the test should not reflect on the status of his son. The owner of his son has done everything correctly and on the up and up. So, the actions of Escapade's owner should not reflect on him.

    We also had contacted that registry and informed them of the non-payment, and requested they suspend the license till payment was made....We were told that was our problem, not theirs. That registry is also the foundation by which Aloha now has a breeding license with CSHA (who also has been informed of the non-payment and lien). All other registries have been unanimous in their supporting not issuing licenses unless the test is paid in full.


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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2000
    Location
    Southern Pines, N.C.
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    11,667

    Default

    Since I am a curious sort, I googled Escapade. I saw that he is being promoted as an Elite Hannovarian Stallion. Is that the same as Approved?

    I also found a handsome chestnut son with a lot of bling, who is by Escapade. He is claiming to have done the 2012 test and has received his lifetime breeding license as an Oldenburg. Is that the same as Approved?

    Seems to me that there are a lot of terms floating around perhaps designed to subvert Escapade's status and imply Approval, even if they cannot be Approved because Escapade has not been Approved.

    Good for Silver Creek for posting this and letting people know the ethics of those stallion owners who they are considering doing business with.
    Last edited by Lord Helpus; Feb. 18, 2013 at 05:17 PM.
    "I used to have money, now I have horses."


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct. 5, 2003
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    7,412

    Default

    Yes and no. In order to be an Elite Hanoverian stallion he would need to have been approved Hanoverian and then met the additional requirements to be awarded Elite status. I did verify on the FN Yearbook site that he was never approved by the Hanoverian Verband, so I don't believe that it is possible for him to have achieved Elite status.

    Yes, the son was presented and did meet his licensing requirements so has his lifetime breeding license with ISR / Oldenburg NA.
    Silver Creek Farms - home of Apiro & Validation
    Visit us on facebook!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
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    Thank you for posting this. I am not breeding again anytime soon but when I do I want to make extra sure I go with a stallion who is owned by people I can trust.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2002
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
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    Default

    Thank you for posting this.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galileo1998 View Post
    Thank you for posting this.
    Exactly!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
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    Nov. 5, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilverCreek View Post
    Yes, that's correct. And despite repeated attempts to contact the stallion owners, it was to no avail. Needless to say, that is why we no longer have a payment plan option for the stallion testing, and the test must be paid in order to have scores given.

    With regard to the stallion that you mentioned, his son was bred in 2008, and the stallion did not attend the test till 2009. Therefore, the non-payment of the test should not reflect on the status of his son. The owner of his son has done everything correctly and on the up and up. So, the actions of Escapade's owner should not reflect on him.

    We also had contacted that registry and informed them of the non-payment, and requested they suspend the license till payment was made....We were told that was our problem, not theirs. That registry is also the foundation by which Aloha now has a breeding license with CSHA (who also has been informed of the non-payment and lien). All other registries have been unanimous in their supporting not issuing licenses unless the test is paid in full.
    Thank you for this clarification. And not surprised to hear "that registry" did not want to cooperate, since it has a penchant for making up its own rules anyway.


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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2002
    Location
    Waterford, VA USA
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    I don't think a registry has any legal rights to "suspend a stallion's license" in order to facilitate payment to an outside business. The horse went to the testing and received a certain score - that's really all the registry is concerned about. Asking a registry to be a bill collector for another business seems a little "far out".....
    Siegi Belz
    www.stalleuropa.com
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SilverCreek View Post
    It is merely a transparent public statement as to the non-payment for the 2009 testing. Here are the additional stallions for which there has been non-payment and have a current contractual lien with us:

    1.) Escapade I
    2.) Escapade II
    3.) Delacroix
    4.) Aloha

    .
    WOW and the part that would really piss me off is that three of the four are using pics from your arena to advertise their very horses

    that is some real nerve

    Tamara
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
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    Nov. 5, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by siegi b. View Post
    I don't think a registry has any legal rights to "suspend a stallion's license" in order to facilitate payment to an outside business. The horse went to the testing and received a certain score - that's really all the registry is concerned about. Asking a registry to be a bill collector for another business seems a little "far out".....
    Siegi, I am not sure anyone expects a registry to act as a “bill collector” between private parties. However, when a registry grants full breeding approval to a stallion based on performance scores from a testing that was not paid for in full by the SO, it is basically thumbing its nose at the testing. IOW, it is showing a total lack of respect for the testing facility and for the integrity of the testing process itself. Of course, this is the same registry that declared the scores from the SC testings “invalid” when a certain stallion failed the test miserably, and then recalculated the scores using an outdated formula so said stallion would earn a “passing” score. Mind you, said stallion was owned by someone who had multiple stallions and who held regular stallion inspections for the registry, so of course the registry wanted to keep her happy so all those $$$$ would keep flowing into the pockets of the registry owners.


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  13. #13
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    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Baltimore, MD
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    Not sure this completely equates, but the jockey club will not register a foal unless the foal owner proves the stud fee was paid to the stallion owner. They don't attempt to collect the money but definitely help provide leverage to the stallion owner to collect the money due. So basically if a stallion was not registered because his breeder did not pay the stud fee, none of his foals would be able to be registered until the stud fee used to create him was paid.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr. 11, 2006
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    Ontario, Canada
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by siegi b. View Post
    I don't think a registry has any legal rights to "suspend a stallion's license" in order to facilitate payment to an outside business. The horse went to the testing and received a certain score - that's really all the registry is concerned about. Asking a registry to be a bill collector for another business seems a little "far out".....
    I agree with Siegi. If a breed association administered the test and didn't get paid they could withhold the breeding licence for their own association or studbook, but not other. It's a bill collection issue from one business to another.

    If a breeder has outstanding debts to the veterinarian, feed supplier, hay supplier or mortgage holder, should the studbook deny registration privileges to the breeder. It's really not all that different. There are existing debts to produce that foal, but that does not prevent that horse from being registered and shown or even sold.


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  15. #15
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    Oct. 31, 2002
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    Ontario, Canada
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    Default

    I think it's a little different than an outstanding feed bill or vet bill. These stallion owners have not paid for the very test that ALLOWS the stallion to be approved. That's like going to university, not paying for it and then expecting them to give you a diploma so that you can get a job based on graduating.

    I didn't read this as Silver Creek wanting anyone to be a bill collector for them, they are simply asking that registries not to approve stallions based on scores from a test that was never paid for.


    25 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
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    Jan. 19, 2005
    Location
    PA
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    To me...that is unfair to put it on the registry. The stallion testing should not have issued scores and verified the scores if they hadn't been paid. Sounds like that is what they do now. But once you issued the scores, you don't add a layer to the registry to verify that they paid for them.

    This is running a business...if you render services before being paid, it does limit the hammer you have to ensure you get paid. The stallion testing was trying to be flexible to increase participation and got burned. It happens.

    If they have a lien on the stallions then there are legal remedies available to enfoce that lien and get paid. It is just whether the amount owed is going to be worth the amount it costs to be collected.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **


    3 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr. 11, 2006
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    Ontario, Canada
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    O.K..that is a much better example.

    But from my viewpoint that would be like going to University, getting your diploma, and then still owing for your student loans. If you received your diploma, you can get a job. The University can't withhold the degree if you owe money to a 3rd party.


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  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2011
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    13

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    Escapade's owner posted, saying: To whom It may concern. Escapade's 70 Day test fee was paid. Over $9000 was pAid to Silver Creek for this test through credit card and check ayments for escapade. There were mitigating circumstances with Escapade ll that were no fault of the horse or Barrington Hill. Anyone that has any concern can please call me. My accountant Is gathering all necessary documentation. Thank you"

    If anyone has questions or concerns, I would strongly suggest you contact her DIRECTLY. There are two sides to EVERY story!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep. 15, 2002
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    I have just recently been made aware of this thread. I do not see where any horse breeding organization has any responsibility nor duty nor right to be involved in the private financial affairs of two individuals. Is this not best served to be dealt with in civil court? And who knows what exactly has transpired here. This is all internet gossip as far as I am concerned. Let's let the lawyers do their jobs and decide who owes whom money (if that is indeed the case). The internet surely is not the place to discuss all of this.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
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    Apr. 2, 2003
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    So, they've admitted to not paying the fee for at least 1 horse?


    8 members found this post helpful.

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