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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    it still deals with down under land....

    but good grief, I don't want the boy's thing to fall off...any less I want a girl to get cervical cancer...

    and anal cancer? PITA does not begin to cover that one!
    Don't forget, I'm a 4.5 year kicker of Anal Cancer. PITA? Yes. Yes it is.

    Also be aware that you or your child can get HPV from simple deep kissing. S/he doesn't even have to physical contact with the "naughty bits," just someone who has had contact with someone who has, yada yada yada. It's a virus. It spreads.

    More Men Than Women Have Oral HPV Infection
    The findings also show oral HPV infections are, for the most part, sexually transmitted. People who reported engaging in oral sex were twice as likely to have an oral HPV infection as those who did not engage in oral sex. People who had had sex of any kind, including vaginal sex or oral sex, were eight times more likely to have an oral HPV infection than those who had not had sex. Among those who'd had 20 or more sexual partners, one in five had an oral HPV infection.

    "Taken together, these data indicate that transmission by casual, nonsexual contact is likely to be unusual," the researchers wrote in their study.

    However, there are clues HPV may also spread by kissing. Oral HPV infections were more common among sexually experienced people who had not engaged in oral sex than among sexually inexperienced individuals, a finding that is "consistent with transmission by other sexually associated contact (eg, deep kissing)," the researchers wrote in their study.

    "This study of oral HPV infection is the critical first step toward developing potential oropharyngeal cancer prevention strategies," Gillison said. "This is clearly important, because HPV-positive oropharyngeal cancer is poised to overtake cervical cancer as the leading type of HPV-caused cancers in the U.S."
    HPV-Related Cancers on Rise as Vaccination Rates Stay Low
    But in 2010, fewer than half of girls aged 13-17 had received even just one dose of the vaccine against HPV, while only 32 percent had received the recommended three doses, according to the report.

    And now, growing research in Europe and the United States is implicating HPV in a rising number of cases of head and neck cancers in men, and many doctors are recommending that all boys be vaccinated as well.
    Two decades ago, about 20 percent of all oral cancers were HPV-related, but today that number is more than 50 percent, according to studies published by the American Association for Cancer Research.

    Similarly high rates have also been seen in Europe, where a 2010 Swedish study showed a strong correlation between oral cancers and oral sex.

    The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved the use of Gardasil for girls in 2006 and for boys for treatment of genital and anal warts in 2009. The vaccine can be given at any age, though it is most effective when given to young people before any sexual exposure.

    Doctors say it could prevent 10,000 more cases of oral cancer a year.
    I asked my 23 y/o son and his girlfriend about the prevalence of experimenting during their school years (he's a Wisconsin boy, she's a Jersey girl). Without hesitating, they both said that some had started in 6th grade but it was rampant by the time they reached freshman year.

    Also be aware that even if you [not aimed specifically anyone in this thread!] think you're dropping your kid off at a safe place (say for Mock Trial practice) that it is quite possible that they can still sneak alcohol or pot or pair off in a closet/bathroom. I thought I kept a pretty close eye on my son, but he recently informed me that he began drinking long, long before I thought he was ready for his first wine cooler and, in fact, I was clueless that I'd picked him up drunk or high on numerous occasions.
    I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right
    Violence doesn't end violence. It extends it. Break the cycle.


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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frizzle View Post
    You sound like a good mom, ww.
    <3
    Proud member of the COTH Junior (and Junior-at-Heart!) clique!



  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    well, you have most certainly shown you to take information from the wrong places - yeah, and live in denial about what your girls will tell you.

    this isn't about STD, this is about cancer.
    and down under cancer ....with the way a lot of people treat those body parts, it would not at all surprise me to hear that the changes there go unnoticed for a while....
    Not surprisingly, you are totally misinterpreting what I'm saying. And, to be honest, you really don't know anything about me at all.

    As for "taking information from the wrong places" - you are wrong. There are risks to all vaccines, and reports of adverse events even if they can't be tied directly to the vaccine - and you can read them on the CDC website - including Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS), blood clots and death. It is wrong to say "vaccines are 100% safe". Whether there is or isn't a connection between certain vaccines and certain events is not always something that can be proven, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't read about them and make decisions based on all the information - even when the side effects/adverse events are unlikely. Especially for vaccines that are not necessary to have immediately.

    I am not in denial about what my girls will tell me - believe me, I didn't tell my mother anything, although she also did not ever initiate conversations about sex, so who knows, maybe I will get lucky and my kids will communicate with me to some degree. I know that my 11 year old is not in any immediate danger (and since I spend nearly every day, all day with her - I think I have a good basis for my decision.)

    I have never said I wouldn't have my kids vaccinated for HPV - I have asked and wondered about the adverse events, in particular, the fainting with seizure like behaviors "that may need evaluation or treatment by your health care professional". I have heard first hand of "seizures" upon receiving the vaccine, and don't think I am crazy to want more information and/or to wait a year or two before I give this vaccine to my pre-teen daughter; at this point I think I will want to have my older daughter vaccinated but still find the fainting/seizure event to be disconcerting.

    Did you read about adverse events before vaccinating your children? Oh, do you actually have any kids? I appreciate all the "theoretical" parenting by the non-parents on this thread, but seriously, until you are in control of someone else's health for life it shouldn't be assumed to be quite so easy.


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  4. #124
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    I'm on the fence for my two girls(10 and 15), though lately am leaning towards doing it. Their very conservative pediatrician is recommending it and I really trust her opinion. She made a good point last fall, even though neither of my kids are sexually active they could still be assaulted sexually and end up with it(among other things). Probably would've had it done already if my daughter wasn't SEVERELY afraid of needles.

    WTA- S1969, I understand where you're coming from. Once you're responsible for another persons life you triple check every decision and then still proceed with caution!



  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicker View Post
    Probably would've had it done already if my daughter wasn't SEVERELY afraid of needles.
    Ask her doctor about a prescription for Emla cream. It's a topical numbing cream. I got it when I had to have the chemo through the port in my chest. It's a GODSEND. I also have a fear* of needles (specifically, the sharp pain they cause--it goes off my personal chart). My primary care physician will write me a script so that I can get my blood drawn without crying like a freaking baby. It REALLY REALLY helps with the anxiety, and anything that helps your kid deal with the reality of needles is, IMO, a good thing.

    *during treatment, I felt as though I was being attacked by a machete-wielding serial killer when I had to get stabbed. I felt awful about it because the nurses/phlebotomists were nice and caring people.
    I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right
    Violence doesn't end violence. It extends it. Break the cycle.


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  6. #126
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    It's all a matter of weighing risk and benefit. So, S1969, I don't see any problem with your waiting a couple of years to vaccinate 9 and 11 year old girls as, given your lifestyles, the risk of sexual activity between now and then seems to be very low. It is for my son too, so I'm planning to get his done around 12ish.

    I'm a big supporter of vaccines, but I've learned to be very picky about needle placement. As a young adult, I got bursitis in my shoulder from a vaccine (can't remember which one) placed too high up on the deltoid and it hit too close to, or in, the bursa. That SUCKED. It was very painful for a long time and my shoulder froze and I had to engage in a lot of PT to get it fully functional again. It still hurts with overuse.

    My PCP's nurse is good, she chooses a needle size based on the patient's rought level of body fat...mine is quite low, so I get a shortish one (5/8 I think?) and she doesn't do it high on my arm. I get my flu vaccine at work and they use the same size needle for everyone and they are churning a lot of us through in a hurry. If the nurse starts swabbing on the top third of my deltoid muscle, I ask her to move it lower, away from the shoulder joint, as I don't ever want to go through that again.



  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    Not surprisingly, you are totally misinterpreting what I'm saying. And, to be honest, you really don't know anything about me at all.

    As for "taking information from the wrong places" - you are wrong. There are risks to all vaccines, and reports of adverse events even if they can't be tied directly to the vaccine - and you can read them on the CDC website - including Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS), blood clots and death. It is wrong to say "vaccines are 100% safe". Whether there is or isn't a connection between certain vaccines and certain events is not always something that can be proven, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't read about them and make decisions based on all the information - even when the side effects/adverse events are unlikely. Especially for vaccines that are not necessary to have immediately.

    I am not in denial about what my girls will tell me - believe me, I didn't tell my mother anything, although she also did not ever initiate conversations about sex, so who knows, maybe I will get lucky and my kids will communicate with me to some degree. I know that my 11 year old is not in any immediate danger (and since I spend nearly every day, all day with her - I think I have a good basis for my decision.)

    I have never said I wouldn't have my kids vaccinated for HPV - I have asked and wondered about the adverse events, in particular, the fainting with seizure like behaviors "that may need evaluation or treatment by your health care professional". I have heard first hand of "seizures" upon receiving the vaccine, and don't think I am crazy to want more information and/or to wait a year or two before I give this vaccine to my pre-teen daughter; at this point I think I will want to have my older daughter vaccinated but still find the fainting/seizure event to be disconcerting.

    Did you read about adverse events before vaccinating your children? Oh, do you actually have any kids? I appreciate all the "theoretical" parenting by the non-parents on this thread, but seriously, until you are in control of someone else's health for life it shouldn't be assumed to be quite so easy.
    Nah, I think I got a pretty good picture about you from what you type.


    Yeah, I am a theoretical parent...I gave up on my real kid a long time ago....

    but not before having the nurse jab him with the needle and the chicken pox vaccine...as far as I know it was pretty new back then, too.

    yeah, vaccines have a risk of severe side effects....life is that way...like chicken pox have a remote chance of causing severe ill effects on the person getting it...

    you are now grasping for straws justifying why you have not yet gotten your girls vaccinated. Autism was played, fainting (like, really?!), spasms and convultions....now blood clods....

    you know, you can get deep vein trombosis from blunt force trauma.....oh, and putting ice on it is bad...although it's good for any other type of blunt force injury.....

    this is not about parenting, this is about healthcare.
    prevention of a nasty disease.

    Like chicken pox, polio, measles, Krupp, tetanus.....3 doses of a vaccine, you can prevent some kinds of CANCER....Hallelujah.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  8. #128
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    HPV, like many other such things, is a HUGE problem in the DC area.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!



  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Nah, I think I got a pretty good picture about you from what you type.
    Likewise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    you are now grasping for straws justifying why you have not yet gotten your girls vaccinated. Autism was played, fainting (like, really?!), spasms and convultions....now blood clods....
    I'm not justifying, nor grasping at straws. I am 100% comfortable with my girls not being vaccinated YET, and had hoped that discussion here could help assuage my concerns about the side effects and reported adverse events. But it seems that most people either don't know that adverse events can be reported, or don't care whether there are connections between them and a vaccine - even if they can't be specifically linked (like anecdotal reports of autism, and the VAERS data for HPV which does contain reports of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS), blood clots and death) - no matter how rare, they have been reported as stated on the CDC website.

    I find this truly rich advice from people a horse discussion board where a significant population of members openly admit to things like refusing sedation for equine dentistry due to the possible adverse effects of sedation - despite most of our vets considering it incredibly safe, and many of them never having seen an adverse reaction to common sedation (except, perhaps, in animals that were already sick or elderly).

    So, thanks for the thought-provoking discussion. Having several friends who are very anti-vaccination unless absolutely necessary, including one that had a child have a significant adverse event after one vaccine, one who had a child get the HPV vaccine and "have a seizure immediately" (in her exact words), and another who has an autistic son who was entirely *normal* until age 3, I suspect I have thought about these issues longer and harder than others on this board. Certainly I have always known that the chance of preventing cancer will outweigh the adverse effects of this vaccine (and of course they do throughout a population), but was hoping that anyone else could shed light on the side effects and adverse effects that I have heard about and read.



  10. #130
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    I wouldn't say you've thought about it longer and harder, but you've thought about it differently. There are a lot of side effects listed for both medications and vaccines (because as I said before, it has to be reported and there may/not be a correlation). I know about them. I also know that I'm healthy, fit, and I have a heavy background in science. I don't take anecdotes as evidence.

    Then again, I just registered to be a bone marrow donor and the possible side effects from doing that, not to mention the procedure itself, are pretty interesting. I think it's worth it.


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  11. #131
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    Yes, there are risks involved with being vaccinated. There are risks involved in everything. However, I did get the HPV vaccines as a pre-teen and aside from some slight burning on the third shot I was fine. I also wouldn't hesitate to get my kids (that I don't have) vaccinated. If you chose to not get your child vaccinated, whether it be for HPV, Flu, Pox, MMR, not only do you put your child at risk, you put others (of all ages) at risk as well. In a world where we have access to resources such as vaccines that can prevent an illness I would feel foolish not to take the opportunity. I do take risks myself as I am on a medication that is know to cause seizures. I do have not experienced one, but I took that chance thinking that the treatment would outweigh the side effects. Would you rather your child get a disease due to you doing nothing at all to prevent it? Or your child get a side effect because you were trying to prevent them from a disease? Now, the ideal answer is neither since no one wants their child to ever get ill never mind have some sort of serious side effect, but something to ponder.



  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThoroughbredFancy View Post
    If you chose to not get your child vaccinated, whether it be for HPV, Flu, Pox, MMR, not only do you put your child at risk, you put others (of all ages) at risk as well.

    Would you rather your child get a disease due to you doing nothing at all to prevent it?
    I've said since the first post that my issue isn't whether to vaccinate for HPV, but at what age, especially if you know your kids aren't at risk YET. For the record, my kids ARE vaccinated for everything else.



  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    I've said since the first post that my issue isn't whether to vaccinate for HPV, but at what age, especially if you know your kids aren't at risk YET. For the record, my kids ARE vaccinated for everything else.
    Well, my post wasn't specifically directed at you, but rather a general statement as to what I believe in terms of vaccination and my thoughts on those who don't do it at all. I didn't say that yours specifically aren't vaccinated?



  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    I am 100% comfortable with my girls not being vaccinated YET, and had hoped that discussion here could help assuage my concerns about the side effects and reported adverse events. [I] was hoping that anyone else could shed light on the side effects and adverse effects that I have heard about and read.
    Your first posts weren't clear (to me), but your later ones are. I understand that your choice is "I will, but not yet."

    It seems to me that the posters who have had the vaccine or have given it to their children have not had any issues with the side effects that concern you.

    at what age, especially if you know your kids aren't at risk YET.
    My son and his girlfriend said that experimentation was wide-spread by freshman year. If I had the option when he was in middle school, I would have vaccinated him by 7th grade. I think his first serious GF was at age 16-17.

    Quote Originally Posted by supershorty628 View Post
    I wouldn't say you've thought about it longer and harder, but you've thought about it differently. There are a lot of side effects listed for both medications and vaccines (because as I said before, it has to be reported and there may/not be a correlation). I know about them. I also know that I'm healthy, fit, and I have a heavy background in science. I don't take anecdotes as evidence.

    Then again, I just registered to be a bone marrow donor and the possible side effects from doing that, not to mention the procedure itself, are pretty interesting. I think it's worth it.
    Good for you!! My son registered with Be The Match last fall. Within a MONTH, he got notice that he was a potential donor. He had a blood test and found out he IS the match. He had his physical on Friday and will be starting the PBSC donation process just before St. Patty's Day
    I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right
    Violence doesn't end violence. It extends it. Break the cycle.


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  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighFlyinBey++ View Post

    Good for you!! My son registered with Be The Match last fall. Within a MONTH, he got notice that he was a potential donor. He had a blood test and found out he IS the match. He had his physical on Friday and will be starting the PBSC donation process just before St. Patty's Day
    I just want to say THANK YOU to your son!!



  16. #136
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    double post



  17. #137
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    like anecdotal reports of autism, and the VAERS data for HPV which does contain reports of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS), blood clots and death) - no matter how rare, they have been reported as stated on the CDC website.
    yes. One should consider risks/benefits before accepting a vaccine. I personally do not get a flu vaccine every year, because the risk to me from flu is extremely low and there is the possibility of getting Guillain-Barre, or having a nasty allergic reaction to the shot, or yes, fainting. If I were at higher risk of having bad complications from flu, my decision would change.


    HPV to me is a no-brainer decision- the risks from HPV are extremely high, for all people, and the risks from the vaccine are extremely low. It is obviously better to vaccinate your children long before they reach puberty- why would there be any benefit to waiting? every day they live without protection they could contract the virus. I don't understand why you think putting it off for a few years is beneficial in any way. Younger kids are less likely to faint than teenagers.



  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaintPony View Post
    Yeah - why is that? I am older than 25, but if I've never had HPV why can't I be vaccinated for it?

    And I am still pissed that there was no chicken pox vaccine when I was a kid. I had to miss Girl Scout camp that year AND I have 2 scars on my face!!

    Because my old OBGYN was a dumbass, and if it weren't for my mother, I never would have known that.

    I started going to planned parenthood for routine female care after that.
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  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighFlyinBey++ View Post
    Good for you!! My son registered with Be The Match last fall. Within a MONTH, he got notice that he was a potential donor. He had a blood test and found out he IS the match. He had his physical on Friday and will be starting the PBSC donation process just before St. Patty's Day
    That's awesome!! I hope I'm able to help people too. I just mailed some stuff to Be The Match, so I hope I hear back soon!


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  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    a) I think we should all be prudent about what vaccines we get and why;
    b) I think we should be especially prudent about what vaccines we give to children who are still growing;
    c) I am not anxious to give a *new* vaccine to my children; if it doesn't increase their risk by waiting for it to be tested for safety in real life (v. in clinical trials), then no reason not to wait.

    Like I said, my pediatrician is recommending this vaccine to 9 year old girls. I see no need for that in most cases, and certainly not in my family.
    This was how I felt about it.
    The vaccine was very new at the time my older daughter was in her early teens. I was not comfortable giving her a brand new vaccine I knew nothing about, especially when i did a little research and there were some bad reactions to the early vaccine. I also have two younger daughters. I chose to wait until they were old enough to make the decision for themselves, they've always been given straight talk about sex, birth control, and how to protect themselves. While I'm sure they're not going to share everything with me, we do have a honest relationship. My oldest had hers while in college, middle daughter chose to have the shot this year at 18 and my youngest who is 17 will probably get it this year . I didn't consider them high risk, between sports & horses..they don't have a lot of down time. Oldest one didn't have her first serious BF til college, younger two are following a similar track. I don't consider this vaccine to be in the same category as say... polio, tetanus, hepatitis...etc, there's a lot more gray area involved.

    Has anyone seen "I am Legend" that movie FREAKED me out.
    Last edited by chism; Feb. 20, 2013 at 02:00 PM.
    "You can't blame other people. You can't always say what happened wasn't my fault, and you know what? Even if you have an excuse, shut up. "Bruce Davidson Sr.



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