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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by saje View Post
    Main Entry: dismember  [dis-mem-ber]
    Part of Speech: verb
    Definition: cut into pieces
    Synonyms: amputate, anatomize, cripple, disassemble, disjoint,dislimb, dislocate, dismantle, dismount, dissect,divide, maim, mutilate, part, rend, sever, sunder,take down

    So cutting 1/2 the toe off is ok?

    In my mind, dismembering is not too strong a word for declawing.
    still beats 'nerving' with the cut behind the ears.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  2. #62
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    I'm not sure why you see cutting a phalanx off as an amputation and tearing it off as dismemberment. They're 2 different words for the same process and end result. And, if it makes you feel any better about the term "dismemberment", many, many veterinarians hack the last phalanx off with a regular pair of guillotine nail clippers. No dissecting, no finding the joint space, no concern with anatomy at all. Just "CRUNCH" and done. Regardless how the bone is removed/dismembered/amputated, the wound is then superglued shut and after all 5 toes have been snipped and glued, the foot is tightly bandaged in gauze cling and tape, usually for up to three days. It's a horribly bloody procedure, so it's done with a tourniquet in place. The tourniquet isn't removed until after the foot is taped. Cats are invariably miserable when waking up and then recovering from this "surgery". I use quotes because it's not even a sterile procedure.
    You know, now it strikes me as strange that anyone would even discriminate between the words "amputaion" and "dismemberment". Is one somehow preferable over the other? I'd like to avoid both, TYVM.
    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory


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  3. #63
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    Yep, what she said.



  4. #64
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    I grew up in a house where we had a "no touch" cat and turned out to be a major cat lover.

    My mom took the cat in for a friend and was the only one who could touch her. It helped that if my brother or I went in the vicinity of the cat she would hiss loudly. That was enough to keep us away.

    We had another cat who was friendly so we learned to understand that some animals just don't like people and you should leave them alone - it didn't mean that they were bad.

    It's probably going to be a good lesson for your kids in the long run - hopefully they will learn not to rush up to a strange dog/other animal because they understand that not all animals are friendly.

    It still sucks though and I'm sorry for that. I once had a cat PTS because of a severe behavior problem and it broke my heart.


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  5. #65
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    Since it's come up twice now, I just want to stress that you do not need to grow up with a hands off cat to learn not to run up to or reach out to strange dogs. This is a very easy and very important lesson to teach every toddler and would be MUCH higher on my priority list than, "We don't pet that kitty" anyway. Children are perfectly capable of understanding that just because their animals at home are all lovey-dovey doesn't mean that other animals are the same way. 'Just in case anyone thinks they'd better go out and trap a feral cat or something so that their kids can grow up understanding that not all critters are snuggly....

    OP, you don't leave the oven, iron and toaster on so that your kids can learn not to touch hot surfaces and you don't set them up to play with outlets and electrical cords to learn about avoiding electric shock. You keep them safe and teach them what they need to know. Only you know how safe or unsafe your home is for them with this cat in it and putting your children's safety above the cat's doesn't make her a "Dixie Cup cat". It makes you a responsible parent. I do hope that Mija and the children can coexist, but you are NOT a bad person if YOU, the parent, decide she's really a danger.
    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory


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  6. #66
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    how can a cat be a "danger"? even if the cat went totally psycho and seriously attacked a child, they just aren't big enough to cause dangerous wounds. The only thing to worry about is scratches getting infected.

    How hard can it be to keep a child from petting a cat? even if the cat wasn't averse to being petted, you should never let a young child handle an animal without supervision- young children can easily injure or kill small pets like cats, or scare/hurt them so much that they lash out.


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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by wendy View Post
    how can a cat be a "danger"? even if the cat went totally psycho and seriously attacked a child, they just aren't big enough to cause dangerous wounds. The only thing to worry about is scratches getting infected.

    How hard can it be to keep a child from petting a cat? even if the cat wasn't averse to being petted, you should never let a young child handle an animal without supervision- young children can easily injure or kill small pets like cats, or scare/hurt them so much that they lash out.
    Did you mean this post to be humorous? Cats can and do cause serious wounds. Very serious wounds. And they can transmit very serious infections. A cat prone to scratching and/or biting absolutely poses a danger. I've handled countless angry/scared domestic and feral cats and I can assure you, I'd rather mess with an unfriendly large breed dog any day.
    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory


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  8. #68
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    You can trot out the old scala naturae to justify putting a kid's safety above a cat's happiness or life.

    You can argue that cats can do serious damage to kids.

    But think, too, about how the OP explains the decision to euthanize the cat to the kid. As a young'n, I wouldn't want to think that my inability to not touch a cat got it killed.

    The "But you could have been really hurt!" or "You are more important than a cat" wouldn't have been convincing justifications for me.

    Yes, the OP can lie to kiddo about where the cat went or why. But she can't lie to herself. So what's the point in finding compelling reasons to make the cat into a huge and intractable problem?

    It seems far better to try and teach the kid to avoid the cat (and read cat body language), or to find catness a different home where she is happy. That's a resolution the OP and kiddo can feel good about.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by wendy View Post
    how can a cat be a "danger"? even if the cat went totally psycho and seriously attacked a child, they just aren't big enough to cause dangerous wounds. The only thing to worry about is scratches getting infected.

    How hard can it be to keep a child from petting a cat? even if the cat wasn't averse to being petted, you should never let a young child handle an animal without supervision- young children can easily injure or kill small pets like cats, or scare/hurt them so much that they lash out.
    Bites are the biggest risk factor with cats. I had a co-worker (full grown adult) who was attacked by a 8 pound cat where we worked and she wound up in the hospital from the infected bite wounds. Not from lack of immediate medical treatment either-- she was promptly treated and the dang things still turned nasty. Cat mouths are full of bacteria and their bites are very prone to infection.


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  10. #70
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    No, a cat won't rip your throat out or kill a child by mauling it.

    But cat bites are no joke. Even an adult needs serious antibiotics ASAP, because cat bites tend to get infected very quickly and very, very badly. I know several people hospitalized for a cat bite they shrugged off as no big deal, and washed and bandaged it at home as though it were any other wound.

    That said, I still think that having a no-touch cat in the house with little kids is do-able, providing the cat is of the generally benign "don't touch me" variety. There are those who are so stressed that they go to showing displaced aggression - they don't dare attack the one that is scaring them/stressing them/ harassing them, so they attack a not-scary innocent bystander. It's analogous to fear biting in dogs, or, to put it more crudely, schitt runs downhill.


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  11. #71
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    I've heard the comparision of cat teeth to needles injecting nasty bacteria into you since they're so sharp. Dog teeth are blunter and more crushing I believe.

    Personally, I'd be more worried about a big angry dog, perhaps because I know they have the potential to kill you while a angry/scared cat will simply run off and/or hide



  12. #72
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    Yabbut this cat is more civilized than a feral one. And until the story about cat going whacko on DH's side of the bed (which the OP didn't see), the cat sounded pretty honest.

    Yes, you have to set up things so that the cat doesn't have a hair trigger. But teaching kidlet to give this particular cat a wide berth seems like it could prevent the killer cat bite.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


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  13. #73
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    I will say declawing is a bad idea, for reasons already mentioned here. When I was very young my parents had a cat which they had declawed to protect the furniture, they didn't know any better this was 20 or so years ago. Anyway this was a very nice cat, however if my brother or I got a bit too bothersome he would put his teeth on us gently to try and make us stop, not even a bite really, just touching with teeth.

    It was hard enough to leave little dimple marks and it hurt from what I remember but got us to stop. He was also a mighty hunter who was able to catch, kill and eat birds, rabbits, among other things. He also got a flying squirrel once, and managed to jump over 6 foot fences with a full grown rabbit to bring it into the basement and eat. He did all this with no front claws!



  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    You can trot out the old scala naturae to justify putting a kid's safety above a cat's happiness or life.

    You can argue that cats can do serious damage to kids.

    But think, too, about how the OP explains the decision to euthanize the cat to the kid. As a young'n, I wouldn't want to think that my inability to not touch a cat got it killed.

    The "But you could have been really hurt!" or "You are more important than a cat" wouldn't have been convincing justifications for me.

    Yes, the OP can lie to kiddo about where the cat went or why. But she can't lie to herself. So what's the point in finding compelling reasons to make the cat into a huge and intractable problem?

    It seems far better to try and teach the kid to avoid the cat (and read cat body language), or to find catness a different home where she is happy. That's a resolution the OP and kiddo can feel good about.

    I dunno. I don't think I'd have a problem explaining the actual truth to kiddo. IF Kitty were attacking without provocation and it came down to cat or kiddo, I'd just tell it like it is. Not all animals make good pets. Some can be tolerated anyway, some can't. Yes, people in this household take precedence over cats. Kitty is attacking family members without good reason and there are countless nice, loving kitties being euth'd in shelters every day. Maybe I'm Satan, but if I had a truly BAD (repeatedly attacking without provocation) cat, I'd certainly consider how many NICE cats, who'd love to share my home, are dying every minute that Bad Cat takes up space in my house. Putting up with an unhappy, dangerous animal in martyr-like fashion does not make one The Ultimate Pet Owner. There are too many gems losing their lives every single day because of the shortage of homes to wear a nasty pet like an albatross. That said, I've never rehomed or put down a healthy pet for temperament reasons, but I can't say I wouldn't if it needed to be done.

    As far as rehoming the cat goes, it's 13 and has never been very nice. Who's to say, if it did find a new home (not likely) that it wouldn't end up with a worse fate than humane euthanasia? Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying OP should euth the cat. I just don't think it's right for the mob here to guilt her into keeping it if that's not what she thinks is best for her family. I'm glad it seems things are working out for now.
    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory


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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackieBlue View Post
    IF Kitty were attacking without provocation

    That's not what's happening though. The cat is making it abundantly clear she does not want to be petted by the kids. And rather than escalating right to extreme aggression, she's trying to avoid/retreat/use gentler means of communication first.

    I might feel more like you do IF we had a really aggressive animal here but it doesn't sound like that at all. It sounds like an animal that can happily co-exist with the kids as long as they don't try to pet her. And that's really not too much to ask. The little one needs to learn not to touch the stove, or the knifes in the kitchen, or the cat. Same difference. And until she's old enough to truly be reliable, parents need to supervise and be very clear about boundaries.

    This does not seem like a euth or rehome situation to me. It sounds like the parents just need to revisit the boundaries with the pets (and it sounds like the OP is doing so and I give her muchos credit for it).
    ~Veronica
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  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackieBlue View Post
    I dunno. I don't think I'd have a problem explaining the actual truth to kiddo. IF Kitty were attacking without provocation and it came down to cat or kiddo, I'd just tell it like it is. Not all animals make good pets. Some can be tolerated anyway, some can't. Yes, people in this household take precedence over cats. Kitty is attacking family members without good reason and there are countless nice, loving kitties being euth'd in shelters every day. Maybe I'm Satan, but if I had a truly BAD (repeatedly attacking without provocation) cat, I'd certainly consider how many NICE cats, who'd love to share my home, are dying every minute that Bad Cat takes up space in my house. Putting up with an unhappy, dangerous animal in martyr-like fashion does not make one The Ultimate Pet Owner. There are too many gems losing their lives every single day because of the shortage of homes to wear a nasty pet like an albatross. That said, I've never rehomed or put down a healthy pet for temperament reasons, but I can't say I wouldn't if it needed to be done.
    As a little kid, I would have had a hard time thinking all that through. I'm sure I would have wondered why some kind of miraculous win for all couldn't have been arranged. In reality, that may not have been possible, of course. But as a kid, I don't think I would have appreciated the sentiment that my mom chose me over a cat to whom something bad had to happen. I would have tended to take my safety for granted and fondly remembered the cat as not that bad.

    Just speaking as the simple-minded soft-hearted kid I was.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    As a little kid, I would have had a hard time thinking all that through. I'm sure I would have wondered why some kind of miraculous win for all couldn't have been arranged. In reality, that may not have been possible, of course. But as a kid, I don't think I would have appreciated the sentiment that my mom chose me over a cat to whom something bad had to happen. I would have tended to take my safety for granted and fondly remembered the cat as not that bad.

    Just speaking as the simple-minded soft-hearted kid I was.

    Children often fail to understand why their parents make the choices they do. But as parents, it's our job to do what's best for our children, not what our children will understand best. Never an easy job, but then, it shouldn't be, should it?
    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
    http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory



  18. #78
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    Tell the kids to leave the cat alone. If they don't, they will be scratched. Natural consequences work best in my experience.

    We had that cat growing up. We were warned that if we chose to ignore the warning we would be scratched or bitten. It didn't take any of us long to figure out to leave the cat alone. She liked my mother and only my mother. That's life.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by wendy View Post
    how can a cat be a "danger"? even if the cat went totally psycho and seriously attacked a child, they just aren't big enough to cause dangerous wounds. The only thing to worry about is scratches getting infected.

    How hard can it be to keep a child from petting a cat? even if the cat wasn't averse to being petted, you should never let a young child handle an animal without supervision- young children can easily injure or kill small pets like cats, or scare/hurt them so much that they lash out.
    Have you ever been REALLY bitten by a cat? Because I was, and it was serious enough that I ended up in the ER at midnight and spent a week with my arm in a splint!

    Cat bites are puncture wounds. And unfortunately my cat punctured a vein in my wrist when I tried to break up a fight between her and another cat. It was pretty bloody and traumatic.

    I wouldn't wish that on someone's poor kid!



  20. #80
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    I wish you could get another Inigo and teach the kids not to touch the mean one. Complicated, I know. Try to rehome miss meanie pants.



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