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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
    I personally think a Shadbelly is rediculous attire for someone riding, and especially if the goal is to ride their best. Stock ties were originally supposed to support the neck in a fall.
    I learned a long time ago that the stock tie was part of hunting atire and served as a way to carry a bandage in the hunt field.


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  2. #82
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    Could someone please give me an example of a rider sustaining a head injury during an FEI-level test?
    Last edited by Lost_at_C; Feb. 18, 2013 at 09:13 AM. Reason: for clarity
    Proud COTH lurker since 2001.


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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
    I personally think a Shadbelly is rediculous attire for someone riding, and especially if the goal is to ride their best. Stock ties were originally supposed to support the neck in a fall.
    My belief as to why nineteenth-century formal wear has stuck around in the equestrian sports is due to their origins.

    First of all, the H/J's originated from mounted hunting with hounds.
    Eventing, once called the "Military," was originally a training test for cavalry officers (note I said "officers,) and their chargers. When it opened up to civilian participation, mostly after WWII, they adopted the foxhunting-type garb of the show ring.

    Now, dressage, in particular, comes from the military tradition but, in the civilian sense, strongly of the aristocracy. This was an art form for Gentlemen and Ladies, who had mastered its sophistication on a high level. No, they were not expected to groom their own horses or shovel out their own trailers! Nor were they to be seen working up a sweat while grunting and panting and straining. The entire ethos of dressage was (and still is, in the Rule Book) "that the horse should appear to be performing the movements of his own accord" (paraphrased). So, Ladies and Gentlemen should sit effortlessly on this magnificent animal, or so it should appear. Big muscles and sweat wicking were not considered factors.

    Now, to what extent any of the above is still true today, is open to debate of course.

    I can tell you, like the poster above who mentioned breed shows, that there are vast, and I mean VAST, segments of the riding public in this country and abroad who do not, never have, and have no intention of EVER adopting helmets, even for juniors! And curiously, they seem to have no trouble finding affordable insurance.

    The "health and safety police," IMO, started with a certain segment of the American upper-middle class, dare I say Baby Boomers, who are on a Crusade to save everyone (mostly, themselves!) from everything that can go wrong, all the time. It's the "Don't Run, You'll Fall!" school of risk management.

    Yes, there is always the possibility of a head injury. Just walking down your front steps. But probability varies widely among activities, both in daily living and riding.


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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post
    <SNIP>

    I think this was an agenda of certain riders and low level ones at that.
    <SNIP.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awJDYBhBPzk
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedmondDressage View Post
    Yup. I don't know one FEI rider who wanted to get rid of top hats whether they chose to wear one or chose to wear a helmet. I too wear my helmet every time I ride at home and I likely would have worn my helmet to warm up at shows. I just wanted the honor of donning a top hat for the 6 or 7 minutes I spend in the show ring.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNfRVNrdyEU
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


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  6. #86
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    Oct. 16, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    The ridiculous argument is made by the helmet brigade that points to a hat as not approriate for equestrian sport but stay silent when asked about equally inappropriate attire that would be more at home in a night time formal dinner.

    You are already wearing a skin tight garment made for equestrian use on the bottom half of the body. It would be no big feat of garment design to extend the same fabric to the upper body.

    And maybe you should tell eventers that padding is not necessary in equestrian sports.
    Of course tail coat, or stock tie does not really fit into the image of "athlete", but since they aren't going to put you in any risk of injuries, or protect you from injury with any other type of garments in case of a fall, for now tradition triumphs. At least they look nice, unlike top hat.... yike. Oh by the way, the lycra stuff, yeah they look good on gym rats but you will be hard pressed to find any of us presentable in those. Who want to show every lump you have? We don't want fashion show - but at least let's not wear something that provides no function, that only manages to make us look ten years flappier.


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  7. #87
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    While there may be some "safety police" I think the real problem is our extremely litigious society, nothing is ever one's own fault, therefore someone must pay. Who has not heard of someone collecting a settlement for an event that was really mostly their own fault, but they managed to transfer blame??


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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by out west View Post
    While there may be some "safety police" I think the real problem is our extremely litigious society, nothing is ever one's own fault, therefore someone must pay. Who has not heard of someone collecting a settlement for an event that was really mostly their own fault, but they managed to transfer blame??
    You're right! I thought of exactly THIS while doing chores. If I had to pinpoint where the whole thing began, it would be the first time somebody tripped and fell on an icy sidewalk and decided it was the building owner's fault and sued--resulting in an insurance settlement.

    You get a very different perspective on this travelling abroad; in Japan, for instance, there are only about 1500 lawyers in the entire country, and most of our commonplace litigation is unheard-of there. As a result, nobody worries much about anything others do--including getting reeling drunk all over Tokyo every single night!

    Here's the question we OUGHT to be asking, on point:

    Why doesn't the FEI or USEF ask the RIDERS what they'd like to wear? With the input of active competitors, could we find a balance between the traditional illusion of effortless elegance, and modern materials' answers to both safety and comfort? The one good thing I see coming out of this is helmet designers might have higher motivation to design something that looks less like a plastic ice bucket or something a vintage Star Trek alien would wear. Stop making people look like giant BUGS already and let's make a hat that's safe AND elegant!


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  9. #89
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    Folks, you don't wear a helmet because you're going to fall off you wear it in case you fall off. Or get thrown; whatever.

    The roots of our "litigiousness" lie in our very morally judgmental, very Calvinist, very Puritanical, highly interventionist society. If you want to unemploy a bunch of lawyers quit trying to always impose your moral and ethical view on other people.

    Or, put another way, Vote Libertarian.

    Of course be prepared for the consequences of that.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    Folks, you don't wear a helmet because you're going to fall off you wear it in case you fall off. Or get thrown; whatever.

    The roots of our "litigiousness" lie in our very morally judgmental, very Calvinist, very Puritanical, highly interventionist society. If you want to unemploy a bunch of lawyers quit trying to always impose your moral and ethical view on other people.

    Or, put another way, Vote Libertarian.

    Of course be prepared for the consequences of that.

    G.
    Well put. Cuts right to the core. Of course, most people can't handle the consequences of true libertarianism. And before the argument starts it is neither absence of government nor anarchy.



  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    Well put. Cuts right to the core. Of course, most people can't handle the consequences of true libertarianism. And before the argument starts it is neither absence of government nor anarchy.
    That's because most people can't handle the consequences of their own actions, period. And our society is now set up so they don't have to.

    Which makes me gag.


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  12. #92
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    Aug. 1, 2004
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    I truely HATE wearing a helmet, I think my neck is too skinny and weak to support both my head and that hat. I have children now and wear a helemt EVERY RIDE, even at my own place where I can do whatever I want. I want to be around to do things with my kids and I want to be a good expample for them.
    With the rule change the top hat can stay in the box, I can still wear it for a portrait or something.
    I have seen some juniors in helmets at saddle seat shows and western but it's still a parent preference. It will change eventually.

    Don't morn the loss of the hat, sit for a portrait with your horse and your hat on and you can show that to your buddies at work so they can see you are an advanced rider.. or auditioning for Downton Abbey (they won't know it's the wrong hat for hunting,lol)
    I can explain it TO you,but I can't understand it FOR you



  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    That's because most people can't handle the consequences of their own actions, period. And our society is now set up so they don't have to.

    Which makes me gag.
    Me, too. And I'm a lawyer!

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


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  14. #94
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    I'm not sure the rule change was motivated by fear of law suites. Perhaps it is because TBI's SUCK.
    They suck for the injured person
    They suck for the family of the injured person
    They suck for the entity who is paying the bills
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


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  15. #95
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    Some people brought up very valid points. Yeah, it really should be your own choices - you are an adult, and should be mature enough to make your own decisions. And I will be damned if someone will some day make it their responsibilities to tell me how I should ride my horse.

    Though, I still think you should suck up, and wear helmets, because I don't know if you are one of those responsible folks - possibly you aren't; we aren't one of those countries that encourage responsibilities: we are in a country that keeps electing government that encourage litigation and breed welfare addiction. What can I say? We dig our own graves, I guess.


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  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    I'm not sure the rule change was motivated by fear of law suites. Perhaps it is because TBI's SUCK.
    They suck for the injured person
    They suck for the family of the injured person
    They suck for the entity who is paying the bills
    Unquestionably. But perhaps someone can enlighten us as to the activity during which the majority of clinically reported TBI's are sustained? My guess would be that equestrian sports come in somewhere very far down the line after auto accidents, bathtub slips and people just plain falling off their shoes.

    So should we put helmets on when we get up every morning? TBI's do suck, after all!

    I think the question we're really pondering here is how far we want to roll down the slippery slope where our every life decision is dictated by bean-counting actuaries . . .


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  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Unquestionably. But perhaps someone can enlighten us as to the activity during which the majority of clinically reported TBI's are sustained? My guess would be that equestrian sports come in somewhere very far down the line after auto accidents, bathtub slips and people just plain falling off their shoes.

    So should we put helmets on when we get up every morning? TBI's do suck, after all!

    I think the question we're really pondering here is how far we want to roll down the slippery slope where our every life decision is dictated by bean-counting actuaries . . .
    Sorry I couldn't find more complete info but here is the ranking of TBI's/sport
    http://www.aans.org/Patient%20Inform...%20Injury.aspx

    particularly " the height from which the rider falls that most significantly impacts the severity of the injury. According to the Ontario Equestrian Federation, a rider sitting on a horse is elevated eight feet or more above the ground, and a fall from just two feet can cause permanent brain damage"
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


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  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Unquestionably. But perhaps someone can enlighten us as to the activity during which the majority of clinically reported TBI's are sustained? My guess would be that equestrian sports come in somewhere very far down the line after auto accidents, bathtub slips and people just plain falling off their shoes.

    So should we put helmets on when we get up every morning? TBI's do suck, after all!

    I think the question we're really pondering here is how far we want to roll down the slippery slope where our every life decision is dictated by bean-counting actuaries . . .
    By far the leading cause of TBIs in this country come from automobile accidents (around 50%, IIRC.) So perhaps it makes more sense to don helmets when driving...
    **********
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    -PaulaEdwina


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  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucassb View Post
    By far the leading cause of TBIs in this country come from automobile accidents (around 50%, IIRC.) So perhaps it makes more sense to don helmets when driving...
    Nope
    http://www.cdc.gov/traumaticbraininjury/causes.html
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


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  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucassb View Post
    By far the leading cause of TBIs in this country come from automobile accidents (around 50%, IIRC.) So perhaps it makes more sense to don helmets when driving...
    Carol posted before I could. If you want to complain about wearing a helmet for showing, go ahead. But don't make false claims to try to back up your position. Do you wear a seat belt when you drive?
    Founding member of the "I Miss bar.ka" clique
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